Is this an unfair comparison?

[vahouth]

vahouth:

Depending on choice, faction Apostles can still be different from each other.

But that choice is not dependent on faction.

You get a permanent decision at each upgrade point - Marine, Disciple, and Apostle. One faction's Apostle would only be completely the same as another's if all three upgrade choices were the same. Otherwise, each Apostle can be different in potentially 3 ways, while sharing some characteristics.

So yes, each Affinity Unit does have a special ability that's tied to its faction, but that ability is not set in stone when you start the game.

And still there is a posibility that the upgrade choices are identical in one or more units (This chance is increased in MP and for UUs).
Needless to say that some of the option are not that radical eg you can choose +25% if adjacent to a friendly, or +8% per adjacent friendly unit...Big deal.

The bonuses you get from the minor factions appear to be small and not very consequential. In CivBE, the combination of the choices you make and permanent traits you acquire makes your faction play in a very distinctive fashion. It's not all the same.

How so? If you see the Empire Management Screen that I posted in the OP you'll see that the assimilation effect for the "Haunts" minor faction is +5% science per pacified village while the Sisters give a +5% health regeneration. There are tons of minor factions and each has its own contribution when assimilated.
And you seem to forget that these bonuses add up to your main Empire Plan:

Spoiler :

Here you can see that these bonuses are not that puny.
Also, they are unlocked by using the new resource (influence), which you can get only by allocating workers in the city screen.
Influence is used to assimilate minor factions, do diplomacy and for your Empire Plan. These uses are very expensive that increase over time and you'll have to plan carefully where to spend it.

 

[Roxlimn]

vahouth:

But that choice is not dependent on faction.

The choice is not faction-dependent, but it is faction-defining. This is similar to trait selection or even faction selection on the start screen of games like MoO2 and EL. Your units are not specific to you before the choice, but they are afterwards.

And still there is a posibility that the upgrade choices are identical in one or more units (This chance is increased in MP and for UUs).
Needless to say that some of the option are not that radical eg you can choose +25% if adjacent to a friendly, or +8% per adjacent friendly unit...Big deal.

That choice is actually rather radical. The first choice is deployed when you want your units to act in pairs or threes. In such small groups, the second choice is clearly the inferior one. You want the second choice when deploying troops in tight groups or semi-stacked defenses (multiple friendly units in the same tile).

In other words, the first choice is an attack choice favoring small-group tactics, the second favors defensive ranged formations with an emphasis on bunched-up bombardment tactics. Very different applications.

You haven't ever actually tried to maximize the second trait, have you?

Here you can see that these bonuses are not that puny and because they are unlocked by using a new resource (influence), you'll have to plan carefully.

I cannot speak to that until I play the game, but it looks a lot more like that's a Civics choice than it is a trait choice.

 

[vahouth]

vahouth:



The choice is not faction-dependent, but it is faction-defining. This is similar to trait selection or even faction selection on the start screen of games like MoO2 and EL. Your units are not specific to you before the choice, but they are afterwards.

That's what I'd hope for though, units that are also specific to you before the choice.
How hard can it be? Maybe they'll add something like it in a patch or dlc or something...

That choice is actually rather radical. The first choice is deployed when you want your units to act in pairs or threes. In such small groups, the second choice is clearly the inferior one. You want the second choice when deploying troops in tight groups or semi-stacked defenses (multiple friendly units in the same tile).

In other words, the first choice is an attack choice favoring small-group tactics, the second favors defensive ranged formations with an emphasis on bunched-up bombardment tactics. Very different applications.

You haven't ever actually tried to maximize the second trait, have you?

I'm sorry but I disagree. The difference in % is so small that it is inconsequential no matter how you use them and I tried them both.

I cannot speak to that until I play the game, but it looks a lot more like that's a Civics choice than it is a trait choice.

Try it and see for yourself then.

 

[Roxlimn]

vahouth:

That's what I'd hope for though, units that are also specific to you before the choice.
How hard can it be? Maybe they'll add something like it in a patch or dlc or something...

It's not hard at all. UUs have been added as DLC as part of a Civ. However, I think they're specifically going against that - the UUs and their unique traits are acquired, not inherent. I don't see inherent as superior. More to the point, it's old hat.

I'm sorry but I disagree. The difference in % is so small that it is inconsequential no matter how you use them and I tried them both.

The difference between +8% and +25% Strength is not small. On a Battlesuit, +25% makes it Strength 50. +8% Strength makes it Strength 43. Strength 50 has a rather definitive edge over Strength 43 on account of how the combat equations work.

Invulnerability in Civ5 only gives +30% Strength benefit, and the promotion is so good many players considered it outright broken. I have to wonder how your experience can be so different.

 

[vahouth]

The difference between +8% and +25% Strength is not small. On a Battlesuit, +25% makes it Strength 50. +8% Strength makes it Strength 43. Strength 50 has a rather definitive edge over Strength 43 on account of how the combat equations work.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.
I'm not talking about the difference of 8% & 25%. I assume that in order to best exploit the 8% per adjacent unit, there should be around it 3 to 4 others. That translates to a 24-32% bonus. I compare that to the flat 25% and in all honesty, even in a defensive scenario, there are 3 more units around it most of the times. But even if not, I'd still prefer the flat 25% bonus so that when/if the opponent eventually breaks through, I'll still have a way to deal with it.

 

[Roxlimn]

You should be able to stack up 4 friendly units on a city tile, and one on each side. In a favorable situation, this leads to 6x8 = +48% Strength bonus, better than Invulnerable. Nearly +50% Strength bonus plus possible Fortification is quite commanding.

 

[vahouth]

Problem is though I don't plan my upgrades based on this kinds of favorable situations.

 

[Roxlimn]

Favorable situations are always engineered by the player. Good play exists in engineering their application and occurrence well. It's not "random." Simply having two units adjacent to each other is a favorable situation vis a vis the adjacency bonus, and an unfavorable situation vis a vis the lone wolf bonus.

You can prefer one kind of situation or another, but saying that a +50% Strength bonus is inconsequential in CivBE kind of calls into question whether you're playing the actual game. Like I said, those bonuses are different and leveraged differently. You don't have to play it the way the second bonus is leveraged, but that just means that it's that different. They're not the same thing.

 

[vahouth]

So why would a player have to engineer a defensive favorable situation instead of an offensive one?
If the units have to stay inside the city for that bonus to apply then they are of no use to me.
I'd rather have a flat +25% when attacking than a scaling 8% to 48% when defending.

 

[Roxlimn]

So why would a player have to engineer a defensive favorable situation instead of an offensive one?
If the units have to stay inside the city for that bonus to apply then they are of no use to me.
I'd rather have a flat +25% when attacking than a scaling 8% to 48% when defending.

That is certainly your choice to make. Like I said, one choice favors attack, and one choice favors defense. They're different. That's the only point I was making.

As to why a player might want to favor a defensive promotion for his melee units - well, I actually favor defensive promotions for my own melee units because I rarely use them for actual attacking. For the most part, I use infantry defensively, even when I'm advancing. I favor offensive promotions on my ranged units.

 

[vahouth]

Btw how do you stack 4 units in a city tile? 3 of them are flying I guess?
Even so, I don't think that all of them count for the+8% bonus. I think it is a bonus per adjacent occupied tile.