[C3C] Is this the Resource Overflow bug?

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
I had a map where I wanted my settled cities to be in specific spots / pattern, so I used the same natural resource (Wines) as a visual marker throughout the map. I also had a couple of bonus luxury resources, but my total resources (including normal resources) wasn't even 32.

Late game I started noticing if I settled a new city that had no roads to it, it still had access to all my luxury and strategic resources. I thought this odd (cause I never heard of the resource overflow bug) but didn't think any more on it. That was until one turn after I had settled another new city, and every single city I had no longer had any resources - causing riots and unit constructions to fail.

That's when I found threads mentioning this resource overflow bug and theories around it.

I got rid of the bonus luxury resources I had added, but late game same issue.

I then regenerated the map (cause I didn't want to have to manually go and delete all of the Wines) and I wanted to keep the same rules (cause I had tweaked some of that). This time around I used Wheat to mark where I wanted cities to be. But I just settled another city not connected to anything and it has access to all my current resources - so I've already abandoned that cause at some point I am going to hit the no resources issue.

I thought from what I read, only strategic & luxury resources cause the overflow. Is this a different but related bug? Is there a hard cap on the number of natural resources that can be on a map?

----

On a related note:

Is there an alternative natural resources I can use as a visual marker? I never do Victory Point win conditions...I always thought LM terrain was related to that...but maybe not?

I just made a test map that all it had was LM Grasslands cause the editor had this yellow diamond above it. Yellow diamond was still visible in game, so it looks like I can use LM terrain as a visual marker. I tried the other types and they all use a yellow diamond...Looks like I can maybe find some LM terrain mods on here...See if I can't find something visually pleasing that isn't a yellow diamond.

PS. It seems like LM Grassland cannot be bonus grassland? At least the little white dot that indicates that it's bonus grassland is not visible with the yellow diamond...
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
So I found a graphic I wanted to use in place of the yellow diamond, and I have no idea what I am doing wrong.

Here's what I have tried so far:

I found the yellow diamonds in a file called landmark_terrain.pcx
I copied the color map from the graphic I wanted to replace the diamond with and imported it in.
I pasted in the graphic.
Green & Magenta are still properly the last 2 items in the color map.
Opened the Conquests Editor, and added LM terrain to a new empty map. No joy. The diamonds are no longer yellow cause of the new color map, but they are still diamonds. So I can see altering the file has some effect - but not the effect I want.

After much experimenting, I even went back to the original landmark_terrain.pcx file and I left in the original color map. I took the color yellow and filled in the diamond to be a solid diamond. I saved it. Reopened the editor. Added some LM terrain. Still a diamond outline. I can't seem to figure out how to replace that stupid diamond with something else.

Am I just altering the wrong file?
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
So the next thing I tried was just erasing the diamond (replaced it with magenta). Still visible after reloading the Editor.
On a whim, I opened the game and launched a new test map that only had 2 types of LM terrain - the one type where I had erased diamond, and another type I hadn't modified.
In game, the diamond was not visible on the modified type, but was on the unmodified.

So then I went back and imported the new color map, and copied in the graphic and saved it and relaunched the game. New graphic is visible.

Apparently it's just the Editor insistent on displaying the yellow diamond no matter what. So I guess got it working for now.
Just curious is there a way to force the Editor to show the correct graphic, or is this an intentional limitation of the Editor?
 

Civinator

Blue Lion
Supporter
Joined
May 5, 2005
Messages
7,992
B.O.B., the resource overflow bug - or better ghost resource bug - adds one (or more) additional resources to a city that this city shouldn´t have. I don´t know of any case when it takes away resources.

The yellow diamond of LM terrain should be visible only in the editor as a visual help for the modder, not during the gameplay.

As you noticed the problem during the late game, may be you have airport-buildings in those cities, providing those "unconnected" cities with air trade. In that case you don´t need a road to that city (the same with sea trade).

In a former post you wrote, that you use the NCL patch. If you are still using that patch, you don´t have to wonder about anything, as this patch is very buggy and you run into severe memory problems when using that patch and exceeding the number of the normal city limit.
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
Yeah I think I am using the NCL, but I try not to do maps so huge that the game crashes. Not sure if I above the original max limit or not at the point - probably am.

As to airport or not, not these are brand new cities founded with a settler - no roads connecting them to anything, yet they have all the resources I have access to as if they are already connected to the capital. This is fine for a bit, but at some point 1 too many cities causes all cities to lose access to all resources.
I've already since moved on from game and no longer have the save. I have a bad habit of whatever game I am playing is saved as '1.sav' and I just write over that when I finish a map (or something buggy like what I having happens).

I am going to download the official 1.22 patch and put that on there. However, is there a version / patch that has no city limit or at least a higher city limit that isn't buggy?
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
Ugh. So I installed 1.22 patch, and now if I try to launch the game it tells me I need to launch it as an admin. Do that, and nothing happens. Game doesn't launch, not running in task manager, and no entry in Event Viewer.

I uninstalled 1.22 patch, Conquests, and vanilla, and then reinstalled everything. Still same admin message and no game launch....Do I need to patch vanilla even though I never play vanilla? I think this one of the other reasons I routinely install NCL because it runs unlike the official install...
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
Doh. I forgot Windows broke the CD check (I still have the original CD) and I have to run a no-cd version. Now I am not sure I am even running the NCL patch. The no-cd patch I just downloaded looks like the same size of the one I was using before doing the uninstall. It's file version says 1.21, but when I run it, it says 1.22 on the main menu screen.
 

Civinator

Blue Lion
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May 5, 2005
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7,992
B.O.B., I don´t play with an unpatched C3C since nearly two decades. So I cannot tell you about additional complications of an unpatched C3C in combination with later mods.

The NCL patches all have big problems and building cities above the 512 limit seems only to work for the human player until running in additional troubles:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-limits.327919/page-10#post-15710174
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-limits.327919/page-10#post-15735119

May be it could be a good idea to buy the GOG version of Civ 3 Complete, that all few weeks is on sale for € 1,29 (or an equivalent price in dollar). It can be started without CD and runs on Win 10. The Steam version of Civ 3 Complete could work, too, but it has a bugged labels text file, playing havoc with nearly all existing mods and scenarios.

Additionally you should have an eye on the phantastic Flintlock mod (so it doesn´t cure the 512 plus city problem). You can find it here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sub-bug-fix-and-other-adventures-in-exe-modding.666881/
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
I did confirm last night that the version of C3C I was running was the no-cd 1.22 patch (just file version is weird - it says 1.21 in the file properties but when the game launches, the main menu says 1.22). It was the German official patch. So I haven't been running the NCL patch for sometime.
I was running into crashes / quirks with NCL back when I played it, but I stopped doing huge maps because of the crashes. It doesn't matter if you get above the official city limit if the game will randomly crash when 1 too many cities gets built. Plus, late game, even 512 cities makes a single turn take forever. I've gotten to the point where I shied away from doing huge maps for that reason. It's cool to have a massive empire, but if I am spending most of the late game twiddling my thumb waiting for things to resolve, it's no longer fun.

Anyway, I must have at some point just got rid of the NCL exe and went back to 1.22 no-cd patch cause if I am no longer going over the limit, why run it?

I do own the Steam Civ 3 Complete, but I also just own the CDs. I haven't tried the GOG one. I've never run into the bugged labels text file personally, but I am aware of it. It's like an extra blank line or something rather you got to delete. The issue I have with the steam one (when I do run it instead) is that the Steam one doesn't create several registry entries needed for the editor to work. I know what those entries are (I have to always lookup my own post on steamcommunity to remember the answer), but I don't seem to have the missing registry entries if I just use original CDs.
 

B.O.B.

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
13
I will have to try out the Flintock mod. I haven't used it yet. Main reason I haven't used other mods is I don't really want the modifications that alter AI or gameplay rules (with the exception of I used to like to go above the city limit). If there was mod that only fixed bugs like losing all resources, or crashes - or even if they could make it so it only calculated trade routes once just before gameplay control returns to you (this is primarily for that ridiculously long lag anytime a city finishes building an airport). Or even just improved the efficiency of the logic so that the game runs faster.

I also don't particularly care for mods that significantly alter how the map looks. But that's just personal preference.
 
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