Isolated Start Redo

[Puppeteer]

This is me replaying an isolated start to help learn more about how opening moves affect later play. (While also showing off a couple of recent mods I've been working on: a color-coded turnlog template and an accessory map viewer / "Google Maps for Conquests".)

This is the map from the Joining Initial Worker to Capital thread. I picked a start to try out a different starting strategy and noticed it was an isolated island start but didn't play beyond at the time.

Earlier this month I rerollled the map as Regent difficulty as a challenge and demo to a player asking about isolated start strategy. In that thread I posted turnlogs and screenshots. I did well I think, but some things didn't quite turn out as I planned, and I want to see how different early choices affect the game.

• Epic C3C, no mods
• Seed 1496780
• Standard Size
• Roaming Barbs
• Continents 70% Water
• Normal Climate, Temperate, 5 Billion Years
• Mongols player civ, random AI civs, standard settings minus Culturally linked starts
• Regent difficulty
• AI Aggression normal

4000 BC Save

Ever wish CivIII had Google Maps? Take a look at this, the state of my island in 1000 BC (If you only see black, zoom out or pan up and right. If it's not crystal-sharp after zooming, click the "Webkit Redraw" button)

With the starting scout it only takes about 10 turns for me to be nearly sure I'm on an isolated island start, so I'm going to begin the game researching Alphabet at minimum as I normally would these days, and then in turn 10 I will "realize" I have to self-research until I get Map Making and meet other civs, which almost certainly means 100% research bee-lining for Map Making. I will also "discover" the other continents in the same order as my last play-through. Aside from that I will play with all my map spoiler knowledge. (Edit: Also, I will settle in place. With spoiler knowledge I might try to place 3 or 4 cities on this 2-tile lake, but I'm not going change my first-city placement based on spoilers.)

The strategy I was trying to demonstrate was to maximize research by building up the capital and core cities' population to research to Map Making faster as the expense of rapid expansion. I know there's a food bonus near the capital and planned on a settler/worker pump that would settle the island and then add workers to the capital and core cities, so my capital produced one settler and then its job was to grow and research. The research worked, but I was woefully behind on settling my island, claiming off-home-island locations, producing workers, and I never had the opportunity to join a worker to any city before I knew the world, and when I knew the world I was the tech leader Monarchy of the Mongols and did not have the production capacity to immediately start my invasions of conquest. So, as a Mongol goes, epic failure to be prepared.

Also, I liked my overall city placement plan, but I settled them in a somewhat stupid order after the first one.

I want to get to Map Making at least as quickly without lacking for workers, cities or population, and I want to be ready to start warring when I know the world and finish my trades-to-the-top of the tech chart. For this game that means the capital will make at least two settlers before concentrating on growth, and the second city will pop at least one settler before building a granary, and I want at least enough workers to keep roads under the core city working citizens.

I'm starting to realize I try too hard with curraghs. Every time I get a curragh to a new continent I have a galley a couple of turns behind it. Most of my curragh resources would have been better spent on workers. Curraghs aren't for discovering continents; they're for scouting nearby islands or going around big inlets to make contact more quickly. In fact, given my spoiler map knowledge I might skip curraghs altogether this game.

Another edit: I will also build a scout first; with spoiler knowledge I might have built a warrior or archer first instead. If I pop a settler or city from a hut I will disband or abandon it since my purpose is to compare strategies, and adding a free settler or city will affect the comparison too much. I might take different worker actions starting turn 1; improving the BGs is less important than getting the deer chopped and irrigated and maintaining roads for quick settler placement and commerce bonuses.

 

[Puppeteer]

If I pop a settler or city from a hut I will disband or abandon it since my purpose is to compare strategies, and adding a free settler or city will affect the comparison too much.

I popped a city in turn 2. And abandoned it. I popped another city in turn 12. And abandoned it. When does that happen? Apparently only when I vow to destroy them.

As long as I'm posting, I might as well hit the "Copy Paragraphs to Clipboard" button on my turnlog spreadsheet and paste it here. Wow, that was easy and looks good, yeah? Try it out. Tell your friends. First one's free. And the second. And all the others.

4000 BC, turn 0:

Karakorum
Settle in place. Scout N to check out deer. Worker N, will have road, chop and irrigation laid out for first settler/city. Will waste the chop shields, but food is more important now. Min research on Alpha.
​

3950 BC, turn 1:

Worker starts road.
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3900 BC, turn 2:

Scout gets city from hut. Abandon it.
Because I'm comparing strategies, but damn, free city on turn 2? When does that happen? Now I'm distracted because getting city #2 on turn 2 is unheard of for me, and I just burned it. Oh well.
​

3800 BC, turn 4:

Worker road -> irrigation.
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3750 BC, turn 5:

Karakorum scout -> warrior. Briefly considered going straight to settler and working the lake, but might as well build a warrior for MP and keep lux at 0.
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3600 BC, turn 8:

Worker irrigation -> N to deer forest.
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3550 BC, turn 9:

Worker starts chop.
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3500 BC, turn 10:

Karakorm warrior -> settler. Warrior stays as MP. Borders expand. Research to 100%. The way I've moved the scouts this time I’m not sure yet I'm isolated, but I have enough info to strongly suspect.
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3400 BC, turn 12:

Scout gets city from hut. Abandon it.
F'ing REALLY? TWO cities from huts? And I abandon them both.
​

 

[Puppeteer]

3350 BC, turn 13:

Worker chop -> road.
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3300 BC, turn 14:

Scouts confirm we're on an island.
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3200 BC, turn 16:

Worker road -> irrigate deer.
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3150 BC, turn 17:

Scouts unfogging into ocean; one finds off-island coast to SW.
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3000 BC, turn 20:

Karakorum settler -> warrior. Worker irrigation -> NW to forest, will chop to help settler build.
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2950 BC, turn 21:

Ta-Tu
I'm last place in "advanced nations" list. Have to edit the city name because of my two destroyed cities. Ta-Tu -> settler. Worker starts chop. Warrior proactively moves to MP Ta-Tu.
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2900 BC, turn 22:

The people admire me, expand my palace. For torching two villages that wanted to join us? Again, apparently on Regent, founding a city with a settler is cause for celebration.
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2850 BC, turn 23:

Scouts are now fortified on hills to watch for barbs.
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2750 BC, turn 25:

Karakorum warrior -> warrior. Warrior to Ta-Tue for MP duty. Worker chop (shields to Ta-Tu) -> road.
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2710 BC, turn 26:

Ta-Tu size 2
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2630 BC, turn 28:

Worker road -> NW to BG. Thought about roading to new city sites, but need to get Ta-Tu so it can do 10-turn settlers with no luxury help ASAP. I'm going to do something I don't usually do. I'm going to reload. I didn't MM Ta-Tu when it grew, and it's working a forest and won't grow on time. Reload to 2710 BC and MM Ta-Tu for 4fpt and tell Ta-Tu governor to emphasize food. Otherwise everything else is the same.
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2590 BC, turn 29:

Worker starts mine.
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2550 BC, turn 30:

Karakorum warrior -> settler.
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2470 BC, turn 32:

Ta-Tu settler -> settler.
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2390 BC, turn 34:

Kazan
Kazan -> warrior.
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2350 BC, turn 35:

Worker mine -> road. Barbs reported near Karakorum; they must be to the S.
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2310 BC, turn 36:

Alphabet
Research to Writing at 100%, due in 32. Scout peeks S: no, barbs aren't there; they must be to W.
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2270 BC, turn 37:

Scout spots barb; their camp must be roughly between the two gem mountains to the W. That coud mess with my city placement plans.
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2230 BC, turn 38:

Barb fortifies. Worker road -> walks back toward capital.
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2190 BC, turn 39:

Barb threatens scout. Kazan warrior -> settler. Scout scoots.
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2150 BC, turn 40:

Kazan settler -> granary.
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2110 BC, turn 41:

Barb moves towards settler/warrior pair and away from scout I want to place my city on time, will sacrifice scout to distract barb.
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2070 BC, turn 42:

Barb takes scout, moving S away from my settler, warrior and worker.
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2030 BC, turn 43:

Almarikh
Almarikh -> warrior. Spend a bunch of time wondering whether this city should make a settler or granary; it is a core city that can go size 12, but do I grow or expand here now? I compared to my previous game. I'm well ahead in city placement and only (esitmated) slightly behind in finishing Writing. I need settlers I need growth, research, workers and some military. I think Karakorum will continue building its granary while Almarikh builds military (for MP and barb-control duties only), then they'll swap roles when the first granary is complete. Every other city will build settlers or workers for now, depending on whether or not they can gather 30s by size 3. Reg war attacks barb war: wins at 1/3. Worker road -> move S to finish road to Almarikh.
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1950 BC, turn 45:

I'm #3 on the world's largest nations list.
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1910 BC, turn 46:

I thought I would need the luxury slider this turn as most of my warriors are escorting settlers or returning from barb fighting, but this is Regent and Ta-Tu is perfectly fine at size 2.
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1870 BC, turn 47:

Tabriz
Tabriz -> worker.
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1830 BC, turn 48:

Reg war attacks fort barb war in camp: wins unhurt, takes 25g from camp. No more barb camps reported.
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1725 BC, turn 51:

Worker road -> NW to forest to chop towards granary. Cities and military have sight of the entire S part of island so barbs can only spawn in N.
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1650 BC, turn 54:

Kazan settler -> warrior. Ta-Tu settler -> settler. Writing due in 1 turn, lower sci to 70%, still due in 1.
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1625 BC, turn 55:

Writing
Research 100% for Map Making. This is the same turn I got Writing on my previous save, but I have 5 cities and two settlers while in the previous game I had 3 cities and one settler. My estimated time to MM is longer this game, but I have two core cities growing, so we'll see how that goes.
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1600 BC, turn 56:

Worker chop -> road. Hmm, granary will finish with growth. MM to make granary finish before growth.
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1575 BC, turn 57:

Ulaanbaatar
Second worker of the game makes its appearance in Tabriz. Yay. Two cities are now on worker duty, and a third will be soon. MM Karakorum. Two cities are on settler duty, and two are growing and/or producing military. Sometime in the next 10-20 turns I'll start thinking about galley and GLH prebuilds.
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1500 BC, turn 60:

Karakorum completes granary, starts military but working lake tiles for research. Change Almarikh to granary, but it may end up being a GLH prebuild.
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1475 BC, turn 61:

Hovd
Hovd -> worker duty.
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1450 BC, turn 62:

Tribes reported. Only 3 possible tiles on the N of the island for their camp.
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1400 BC, turn 64:

Reg war on mountain defends against barb war, survives at 2/3.
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1350 BC, turn 66:

Darhan
Darhan -> worker duty. Reg war wipes out barb war & camp.
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1325 BC, turn 67:

Third and fourth workers enter the game, and 4 cities are on worker duty. Last time I had everybody building curraghs or galleys…I'm going to need galleys soon. I'll find a place to build them…oh, Tabriz I guess. Now that it's on the road network it gets 2spt at size 1. Wow, more tribes reported already.
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1250 BC, turn 70:

Reg war kills barb war at 2/3.
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1225 BC, turn 71:

Karakorum size 5, so lux to 10%, but MM due in 1 at sci 20%.
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And apparently my domestic advisor and I disagree on growth rates: (see screenshot)

Notes to self on template spreadsheet: I should put a CR after [/INDENT] to make it easier to delete lines already previously posted. Also should freeze top row so the clipboard buttons don't scroll away. Would be nice if it could somehow know which lines have already been posted, but can't think of a simple way to do that offhand.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

Interesting.

 

[Puppeteer]

1200 BC, turn 72:

Map Making
Decide to go direct to Philo at max (90%) and grab Lit as my free tech if I get Philo first. Decide to finish granary in Alamirkh then build GLH. A slight risk, but I think I’m ok. Reg war wipes out barb war & camp.
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1150 BC, turn 74:

Two settlers produced. I only have one productive spot left. I guess I'll put the other on the galley rather than plop a tundra city for now. Time to take Kazan off settler duty…I'll have it make galleys and at some point soon a harbor…no, harbor first because then it becomes a food city with the fish bonuses. Um, what? Harbor costs only 30s? What am I missing?
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1100 BC, turn 76:

Almarikh finishes granary, starts GLH. Karakorum size 6, lux to 20% but Philo still in 3.
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1075 BC, turn 77:

Gems are on the trade network, and only two cities aren't but will be soon. Lux back to 10%, sci to 60% for Philo in 2.
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1050 BC, turn 78:

Sci to 50%, still Philo in 1.
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1025 BC, turn 79:

Dalandzadgad
Philosophy, Literature
I got to Philo first! Set research to Code of Laws at 10%. Next techs will be from trade and pointy stick. Dalandzadgad -> worker duty.
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1000 BC, turn 80:

Karakorum warrior -> barracks. Maybe early? Maybe not. Started to go for TGL, but why spend the shields?
​

-----

So, how am I doing? In my last trial I got to Map Making at 1150 BC, turn 74. In this game I got to it in 1200 BC, turn 72. Last game at 1000 BC: 7 cities, two workers, curraghs located an island or two. This game: 9 cities plus a settler, 7 workers, no curraghs but 2 turns from the first galley. Last game: Alpha, Writing, Map Making researched, working on CoL. This game: Alpha, Writing, Map Making, Philo researched, Literature as free tech, 1 turn min research into CoL.

I'm a tad behind in sea exploration, but my spoiler map knowledge make that not matter in this game.

I'm surprised how well this went. It's another illustration of how powerful rapid expansion is. And apparently I've been building my granaries too soon. It seems much more beneficial to get a settler out than to build a granary, at least this early in the game. I think my new strategy is to build settlers if a city can reach 30s by size 3 else build workers, and at some point--no later than when worker-duty cities start producing--pivot core cities to military or infrastructure as required.

In an isolated start my previous goal was to build up the capital and research quickly to Map Making, but at least in these two trials it seems that making new cities is just as effective as building up the core for research and far more helpful in overall empire/power development, and beelining for Map Making is faster than I originally thought, even with the first 10 turns of Alpha at minimum. So the capital doesn't have much time to grow, even with granaries, before Map Making.

I will continue the game and see if I can start invading right around the time I catch up in tech.

Oh, tech strategy: Last game I got MM sooner in empire-time than expected and decided to try for Republic slingshot opportunistically. I think I barely missed it, and I might have made it this game. Even if I don't want to be Republic, it is a good trade tech, and sometimes I leverage it to trade for a MA tech. However, none of that worked out last game. However, CoL and Philo were useful in my trades, so I didn't want to stop research this game. So I went for Philo first and grabbed Lit as my bonus tech. Now I have a number of trade-able techs and can more or less shut down research until the trading frenzy, and after that perhaps it's pointy-stick research time.

I started to try building the Great Library in Karakorum but realized I can probably start building my military now. If nothing else I can disband archers for 5s in galley-building cities, but I think I can find use for vet archers built today.

Screenshots: the in-game view of my evil island fortress. (Temujin wants to take over the world.) Also, I apparently am building a 30s harbor. How is that? I don't know. Anybody have any ideas? This is a Steam-installed Civ3 Complete, and the only mod I've put in is the smiley popheads I use.

Oh, and here is a scroll-able, zoom-able HTML/SVG map of my known world! This was automatically generated by my Civ3 Show-and-Tell program which is under development, but as you see it has come quite a ways already.

 

[Puppeteer]

975 BC, turn 81:

Karakorum size 7, lux to 20%. Lol, my size-7 capital is making 2spt. That will change soon.
​

950 BC, turn 82:

First galley sets sail with settler and warrior
Mine is the happiest nation in the world.
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925 BC, turn 83:

The entire island is in military or city line-of-sight, so no more barbs at home.
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825 BC, turn 87:

Mandalgovi
First off-island city
Kazan finishes harbor. Decide it's now a food city since it can be 4fpt and is limited to size 6. Will start moving worker duty cities to other tasks.
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800 BC, turn 88:

Get FP message. Oh yeah, FP. Um, I'll find a place for it later.
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750 BC, turn 90:

First suicide galley run
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730 BC, turn 91:

Galley survives, reaches a new continent.
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710 BC, turn 92:

Meet Egypt
Egypt doesn't have Writing, but of course has the first-tier techs I don't.
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610 BC, turn 97:

Choybalsan
Galley spots America's borders, contact next turn. Barb-proofed the two closest islands.
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590 BC, turn 98:

Contact America
London completes Colossus. America has Map Making but down Philo and Lit. Since I know Russia is close I'll wait to trade.
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570 BC, turn 99:

Lincoln offers CB straight-up for Lit. Um, no. Disband two archers to hurry a galley. Capital is pushing an archer every other turn now.
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510 BC, turn 102:

Spot brown borders.
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490 BC, turn 103:

Adjacent to brown border, contact next turn.
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470 BC, turn 104:

CB, BW, Masonry, Mysticism, Wheel, Polytheism, Math, IW, HBR, Construction
Contact Russia, meet Spain
Russia has the same apparent techs as America. Trading time! Writing to Egypt for CB, BW and 12g. (Need to open up 2nd-level techs.) Map Making and 87g to Egypt for Masonry, Mysticism, and The Wheel. Interesting: Russia is down Poly to the others. Establish embassy with Russia for 49g. She does not have contact w/Egypt. Score! Philo to Egypt for Poly and 47g. Philo and 31g to Russia for Math and IW. Cool, both America and Russia have Construction; I didn't expect that. Lit and Poly to Russia for Construction, HBR and 6g. Russia and I are now the tech leaders. Oh, and there's Spain; she put Santiago right next to Moscow. She is well behind in tech and does not have ROP with Russia...guessing they've warred. Will gift Spain up a bit to keep Russia from using her as a vassal and getting too powerful. America has too darn much gold. Sell them Philo and Lit for 272g. They still have 266, but I have 836 now. Gift Spain Philo and Lit.
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450 BC, turn 105:

Oh! I just got lots of tech and can build other stuff now. I have 18 workers for 11 cities, so I can start giving cities other tasks.
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390 BC, turn 108:

Discover Eastern Continent
Galley defends unhurt from barb galley. Zulu build Pyramids. Moscow built Oracle a turn or two ago. Land settler, scout and two vet archers on Eastern continent. America and Egypt have Monarchy. Can't do much about it now, maybe I'll have leverage after meeting my new victims...er, continent-mates.
​

370 BC, turn 109:

Erdenet on E continent
Great Lighthouse, Meet England, Meet Zulu
Oh, I guess I'll build the FP now. Scout finds 2/4 orange warrior on E continent. England is up Col and down Poly. Galley finds an Impi. Zulu are down Lit and Poly. Whip harbor in Mandalgovi for horse and iron island. Oh yeah, my horses and iron are not on my home island. I knew that from last game.
​

350 BC, turn 110:

England war attacks, wins against fogged enemy. Horse/iron island harbor completes, but resources not roaded yet. Put lone scientist in Mandalgovi, sci to 0. England is now up CoL and down nothing. D'oh. Wait! Zulu is at tech parity with me? They got two techs in the last turn?
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330 BC, turn 111:

Meet Hittites. All civs known.
Hittite scout wanders into view of my scout. They are down Lit, Poly and Construction but have nothing for me.
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310 BC, turn 112:

Tsetserleg on Banana Island
Russia has CoL. Maybe I can afford it and Monarchy soon. Crank research to max. I can research it cheaper than buying, and then I can start min research on Monarchy. I'm not quite ready to attack anyone yet, but soon, soon.
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250 BC, turn 115:

Horses on trade network
Thanks to GLH and a couple of harbors, horses are now available on the main island.
​

230 BC, turn 116:

Code of Laws, Monarchy
Start Monarchy at minimum. Get palace expansion. Ooh! Egypt and Russia still haven't met, so as far as Egypt knows I have CoL at monopoly, and she has Monarchy at non-monopoly. YES! She'll take CoL and 199g for Monarchy! Egypt and I are now the undisputed tech leaders. REVOLT! 5-turn anarchy.
​

210 BC, turn 117:

Baruun-Urt, E continent inscense
Republic
England knows Republic. Monarchy is not known on her continent, and Monarchy has an unbuilt wonder. It may be a bit fast, but give her Monarchy and 251g for Republic. Hopefully I can leverage it for a MA tech this time from Russia, but with my luck Russia will probably research Republic next instead of Currency. Speaking of which, I have 50 turns of lone scientist left on Currency. If I had been paying attention I would be at 49.
​

130 BC, turn 121:

Monarchy
Mongols are now a Monarchy. During the anarchy I shuttled some vet archers to the E continent. There are 7 total, but they are also covering two cities. One of the cities has claimed incense. Put Kazan back on settler duty. Both Ta-Tu and Kazan will make settlers for the E continent.
​

90 BC, turn 123:

Currency
SPAIN has Currency? Score! I'm up Monarchy and CoL on them. It takes both to get it. Spain of all civs and I are the first to enter MA. Didn't I gift them halfway here? Cool. Russia is the only scientific civ…let's see if I can get their free tech. 1gpt for currency is "never accept such a deal." Let's see if they offer anything for it: 20g. Ass. Fine, be that way. Take Currency for 23g. You'd better give me your MA for Republic. She got Feudalism. @#%!@@#$!@!! She won't give it up for everything I have (Republic, 663g and 13gpt). I just sold Currency for 23g. Research to Monotheism with a lone scientist. I could get Feudalism in 17 turns at max, but I think I'll start killing someone. Too bad Russia is too far away for an effective attack right now.
​

70 BC, turn 124:

Ereen
Iron on trade network
Apparently had a barb uprising on the E continent. Saw a Hittite warrior overrun and then my vet archer fended off two barb horsemen, ending strength 2/5. Iron is now online at the main island via the resource island and a new road.
​

30 AD, turn 129:

I am the most powerful civ in the world.
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90 AD, turn 132:

Batshireet

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130 AD, turn 134:

Palace expansion.
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150 AD, turn 135:

D'oh, I let Almarikh riot right at it was going to complete the FP.
​

170 AD, turn 136:

FP in Almarikh
​

-----

So this is as far as I played in my last try. I've lost some focus over the past couple of hours, but I'm pretty sure I'm well ahead of where I was in the other game. I am more or less ready to start a war; I have a bunch of vet horsemen on the East continent and could start slaughtering stray units, but I'm settling the E continent and want to war to push South.

I have 16 cities and two settlers. I was one of the first to enter the MA, and only Russia has tech on me because they got it free and wouldn't trade it for Republic and all my gold.

Part of me thinks I should have started warring already, but the other part asks what for? I could be killing off a few units, but I'm grabbing unclaimed territory on the E continent and am not rubbing borders with anyone yet, so I guess I'll wait until that happens and then roll over them.

Harbors continue to cost 30s even though civilopeida says they should be 60s. Weird. Apparently I'm a seafaring Mongol civ.

Screenshot: In my most recent city I seem to have beat an English settler pair to the spot. I then blockaded the settle-able territory to the N so they couldn't go N a few steps. And now I have a settler in place to take up most of the settle-able tiles there and have horsemen to blockade the rest until the next settler gets there.

I just noticed I'm min-researching Feudalism when I said I was researching Mono. I guess I forgot to change it. I was thinking it might work out better in trade if I researched Mono, but now that I think about it I should have gone with Engineering as a trade chip. Oh well.