Isolated starts are terrible

[Polisurgist]

Started a game as America last night to give it a try post-patch. Spawned onto a small continent near the southern pole, complete with tons of salt (YAY) but mostly devoid of any gold-generating tiles. No other civs anywhere within reach pre-Astronomy. Had one CS on it, which I was able to ally quickly without spending gold, but it was Almaty, who kept granting me units I had to delete because of my GPT problems.

By the time I gave up, I'd just been "discovered" by Greece and Portugal, both of which were far ahead of me, and I was like 20 turns away from Astronomy myself.

I remember the last time I got a start so isolated was pre-BNW and that start guaranteed me dominance over the entire globe. Things have changed.

 

[fotonut]

Agreed. Seems realistic that isolated starts are worse.

I had similar experience recently... It's unfortunate to send the triremes all around and not finding a way out.

Next game I played I ended up being Polynesia, which was a breath of fresh air.

 

[Avatan]

No neighbors means that you barely need an army at all until astronomy, which represents a huge gpt saving. You have free range to abuse internal trade route to grow big cities, and if you have room then enough cities will generate enough money through city connection and exploited luxury tiles.

If you have no neighbor, no room and no luxury then yeah, that's a pretty terrible start.

 

[Polisurgist]

No neighbors means that you barely need an army at all until astronomy, which represents a huge gpt saving. You have free range to abuse internal trade route to grow big cities, and if you have room then enough cities will generate enough money through city connection and exploited luxury tiles.

If you have no neighbor, no room and no luxury then yeah, that's a pretty terrible start.

The lack of opportunity for external trade routes also helps ensure that it'll be a long time until you get Astronomy.

Part of my problem was that I started the game wanting to go Liberty/Honor instead of Tradition, and that I stuck with that until it ceased to be a good idea. Maybe I'll go back to my first autosave and see if I can do something better with different policies.

 

[amphreded]

Had that happened to me a couple of times as well. No external trade route or someone to trade your extra luxury will ensure you'd keep falling behind.
The other bad start for me is when you are playing on continent, you spawn in the continent where the majority of other civilizations are; but the other continent contains a leader civ that kills off other civs on the same continent and by the time you've reached astronomy, he's in control of the whole continent already.

 

[Polisurgist]

Had that happened to me a couple of times as well. No external trade route or someone to trade your extra luxury will ensure you'd keep falling behind.
The other bad start for me is when you are playing on continent, you spawn in the continent where the majority of other civilizations are; but the other continent contains a leader civ that kills off other civs on the same continent and by the time you've reached astronomy, he's in control of the whole continent already.

Oh, yeah, that was the other thing. Almost immediately, I was sitting on like 5 Salt, 1 Cotton and no other luxuries. Fun.

 

[EK834]

Isolated starts are even worse for Venice.

My worst BNW game was as an isolated start as Venice on Archipelagoes/Emperor (probably my last game on that map, as similar game-breaking isolation happened to me 2-3 times on it). It looked like a rather good start, easy to defend with a small army, no river but with a mountain for an observatory, 3 lux nearby and a fourth for later and if it was a better production prospect than a great food city, I stood a chance from that at the HG, for the growth and for a Garden, and with 2 puppet CS and a few maritime allies I could still grow fast despite the terrain much better suited for production.

Turned out I was isolated, with no CS in range for trade or to puppet before Astronomy. I told myself many other civs would have the same obstacle, but I was the only one in my situation, it turned out.

I did well at first, building my few possible farms, getting my granary up, producing and chopping away for the Great Library and having my NC up next, but after that the stalled growth really made me lose everything. I knew I was pretty much doomed when I met all my neighbors at once because someone founded the WC... while I was still quite a bit away from Astronomy to even find my first CS... I was last in everything (I disbanded my warrior and galleas, kept only one longbowman + 1 worker, using the little gpt I generated for purchases), with 3 runaways a full era ahead of me incl. two immensely powerful wide civs, and 2 merchants of Venice that had sit near Venice costing maintenance it seemed like... forever, and a totally useless spy. Almost no tourism, lame in culture, backward and no army.

As I discovered the Influence Siam and Greece already had over the city states (2 puppets to get lucrative TR and putting all my gold and spies into them for a diplo win being my only possible chance to turn the tide) I gave up.

 

[Rombizio]

I play with all settings random. I once got India, but I had to play in a starting island with only 7 tiles. That is right. I only had 7 tiles of contiguous land. The rest was all around in shallow water but also very fragmented. It was almost like a one-city challenge for most of the game, until I could get settles to walk around and found my second city (by year 1000 AD!). I still won a cultural victory though.

 

[civ54lyfe]

i hope you can get to Physics really fast b/c it sounds like your empire could really use the +10, and more.

 

[whyidie]

My last two "Retire" games were Zulu and Mongols with isolated starts. Map didn't match what I wanted to do with those Civs.

 

[Bad Wolf]

They do really suck, and for those who prefer realism that's probably a good thing - one of the main drivers of human development is the exchange of knowledge and goods between civilizations.

 

[Silverman6083]

agreed. Seems realistic that isolated starts are worse.

I had similar experience recently... It's unfortunate to send the triremes all around and not finding a way out.

Next game i played i ended up being polynesia, which was a breath of fresh air.

polynesia for life <3 honolulu tourism

 

[Johnpecan]

Agreed, they are very rough. Have to rush NC to have a chance at not getting totally left behind...

 

[Kizo]

I was recently excited to find I'd started alone on a full continent as Brazil, since that meant I didn't have to concentrate on military whatsoever, and could instead focus on crucial wonders. I had one city-state, so I had no issues with inability to trade, but I quickly found that my assumption that I could ignore my military was completely wrong.

The increase in barbarian aggression meant that I was constantly being overrun, and since I didn't have a neighbor to help me share the workload, the entire task of managing barbarians fell on me. This was actually worse than spawning next to even the most aggressive AI, since they still have to focus on diplomacy and empire-building enough that they aren't at perma-war with me.

Obviously, I am to blame for letting the situation get out of hand. At the same time, though, the size of the landmass on which you have your isolated start also contributes to whether it's a blessing or a curse.

 

[Polisurgist]

I was recently excited to find I'd started alone on a full continent as Brazil, since that meant I didn't have to concentrate on military whatsoever, and could instead focus on crucial wonders. I had one city-state, so I had no issues with inability to trade, but I quickly found that my assumption that I could ignore my military was completely wrong.

The increase in barbarian aggression meant that I was constantly being overrun, and since I didn't have a neighbor to help me share the workload, the entire task of managing barbarians fell on me. This was actually worse than spawning next to even the most aggressive AI, since they still have to focus on diplomacy and empire-building enough that they aren't at perma-war with me.

Obviously, I am to blame for letting the situation get out of hand. At the same time, though, the size of the landmass on which you have your isolated start also contributes to whether it's a blessing or a curse.

Yeah, that aspect actually made Honor a wiser choice, which is one of the things I was trying to do with that game, but it still didn't end up that well.

I think it might have turned out just fine if I hadn't had an isolated start on a crappy island.

 

[Koiranputki]

....with the emphasis on the crappy island rather than the isolated start....

 

[chazzycat]

yeah if you only get 1-2 unique luxes and no one to trade with, happiness can be a problem. Would probably recommend focusing on growing your capital to take advantage of monarchy, since that's the best source of early happiness other than luxes. A big capital with early NC & university can get you to astronomy pretty quick.

 

[Callonia]

Eh, sometimes its worth it to play the isolated start on crappy island, might can teach you new tricks on working with firaxis's mechanics for happiness. I've had few games like that. xD

 

[Calouste]

yeah if you only get 1-2 unique luxes and no one to trade with, happiness can be a problem. Would probably recommend focusing on growing your capital to take advantage of monarchy, since that's the best source of early happiness other than luxes. A big capital with early NC & university can get you to astronomy pretty quick.

And Monarchy is also a decent source of early cash.