Israeli soldier rage and the media.

[Tassadar]

But when the jihadists blow Israeli children to bits with a suicide bomber, the same posters have a muted celebration...

Disgusting!

....

1.-Just provide them with modern weapon, so the palestinian will be able to defend THEIR territories with ''acceptable mean''.


2.- i agree, it is very disgusting that a modern army, supplied by western power, is crushing defensless palestinian to stole their land and establish the old biblical israel border, very disgusting indeed.

 

[G-Man]

1.- Of course he didnt, that is what i said from the begining, the authority wouldnt have listen anyway, so thats why when a soldier want to show injustice, he have to go to the media.

2.-hahaha i was waiting for it:http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/482562.html

3.-I wont give you a psychiatric course, do your own research, like you said so often to me,

1. What makes you think no one would've listened to them?
2. This is getting silly. You don'y even read your own links!
The officers said that they had no intention of refusing to serve
What makes you think that only hard liners are allowed in? How is the army even gonna know what's the political view of its soldiers?
3. So you took a psychiatric case and now you're able to detect the psychological status of someone you've never met or talked to from half a world away and based on two lines in a news report?

1.-Just provide them with modern weapon, so the palestinian will be able to defend THEIR territories with ''acceptable mean''.

Israel and the US have provided the PA with modern weapons. They've used these weapons in order to attack Israel. And why do they need to defend their territories when they've been offered a cease fire for so many times? If they were after defending themselves they wouldn't have started the intifada or they would've ended it a lot sooner.

a modern army, supplied by western power, is crushing defensless palestinian to stole their land and establish the old biblical israel border, very disgusting indeed.

1. The IDF doesn't target Palestinian civilians and is using every possible military tactic and mean in order to minimize the suffering of the civilians. It also operates very large humanitarian aid operations.
2. Israel doesn't steal Palestinian land.
3. Israel doesn't have any interest in establishing any biblical border, and in any case Gaza isn't a part of biblical Israel.

 

[Tassadar]

G-man, i will just debunk the provided article, as it is clear you didnt read it at all.


quote,

The letter supplies a partial answer to a question that has puzzled many observers: Why has there been virtually no public criticism of the army's actions in the territories from soldiers doing their compulsory service? Many reservists have gone public with their criticisms, and some teenagers have refused to be drafted at all, but the draftees have largely been silent.

The Shaldag officers' letter continues a trend that began with Breaking the Silence, a group of newly demobilized soldiers that published highly critical descriptions of army operations in which they participated. Similar criticisms have been voiced in internal army forums: On two different recent occasions, a soldier and an officer serving in the territories protested the IDF's treatment of Palestinian civilians.

In their dispute with the army, the Shaldag officers have two advantages over groups that advocate refusing to serve. First, their criticisms stem from intensive experience in the field, whereas some of the refusal groups expressed objections in principle that were not rooted in actual experience. Second, by stressing that they will not refuse to serve, they have made it impossible for the army to dismiss them as being "outside the consensus."


1.- On two different recent occasions, a soldier and an officer serving in the territories protested the IDF's treatment of Palestinian civilians.

2.-over groups that advocate refusing to serve.

3.-Many reservists have gone public with their criticisms, and some teenagers have refused to be drafted at all

It is the last time i feed you with a spoon,


and quote from G-man,

3. So you took a psychiatric case and now you're able to detect the psychological status of someone you've never met or talked to from half a world away and based on two lines in a news report?


It is clearly not a psychological case, like i said, but you need some basic knowledge into that field, and your lack of psychology is astonishing, i wont teach you in that post, sorry.

 

[G-Man]

G-man, i will just debunk the provided article, as it is clear you didnt read it at all.


quote,

The letter supplies a partial answer to a question that has puzzled many observers: Why has there been virtually no public criticism of the army's actions in the territories from soldiers doing their compulsory service? Many reservists have gone public with their criticisms, and some teenagers have refused to be drafted at all, but the draftees have largely been silent.

The Shaldag officers' letter continues a trend that began with Breaking the Silence, a group of newly demobilized soldiers that published highly critical descriptions of army operations in which they participated. Similar criticisms have been voiced in internal army forums: On two different recent occasions, a soldier and an officer serving in the territories protested the IDF's treatment of Palestinian civilians.

In their dispute with the army, the Shaldag officers have two advantages over groups that advocate refusing to serve. First, their criticisms stem from intensive experience in the field, whereas some of the refusal groups expressed objections in principle that were not rooted in actual experience. Second, by stressing that they will not refuse to serve, they have made it impossible for the army to dismiss them as being "outside the consensus."


1.- On two different recent occasions, a soldier and an officer serving in the territories protested the IDF's treatment of Palestinian civilians.

2.-over groups that advocate refusing to serve.

3.-Many reservists have gone public with their criticisms, and some teenagers have refused to be drafted at all

It is the last time i feed you with a spoon,

What's the point of all of this? Where does it say anything about the political opinions of soldiers who do serve? Where is there any indication in there that only hardliners are being sent to the territories?



[/QUOTE]and quote from G-man,

3. So you took a psychiatric case and now you're able to detect the psychological status of someone you've never met or talked to from half a world away and based on two lines in a news report?


It is clearly not a psychological case, like i said, but you need some basic knowledge into that field, and your lack of psychology is astonishing, i wont teach you in that post, sorry.[/QUOTE]

In other words, you took a case in which it is still unknown what happened, and based on a line from a report coming from half a world away you've made a psychological analysis of it, and now you refuse to explain how you did it. right? Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm tired of people thinking that they know everything. You do not know this person. How can you tell if he suffers from a mental problem or not, or what it can lead him to do? It's obvious that no real psychologist would dare to make such a claim based on practically nothing.


BTW You have ignored several of my points.

 

[Tassadar]

From the same israeli source,

The summun in war crime,


the IDF has escalated its operations to the point of collective punishment.


It is not surprising that they send the radical soldier do the dirty job.

 

[G-Man]

I'm tired of this. You just make claims about war crimes and about Israel only sending in hardline soldiers, and whenever I ask for any proof you ignore it or invent something, just as you did in so many cases before. If you want to think that Israel is an ultimate evil do it in the privacy of your own head, I have no intention to keep arguing with your dreams.

 

[Tassadar]

Quote from G-man,

In other words, you took a case in which it is still unknown what happened,


Quote from the main article,


"We saw her from a distance of 70 metres. She was fired at ... from the outpost. She fled and was wounded. I understood that she was dead. The platoon commander neared her, shot two bullets at her, returned toward the force, turned back to her, put the weapon on automatic and emptied his entire clip," one soldier said.


So yes we know what happen, but you dont care to read it, what the point to post if you dont read.

A short psychological analysis, if this soldier was realy psychiatric, he wouldnt have done it with self control, as he clearly turn back to empty his auto rifle. He never lost reality contact, he was well aware of what he was doing, far from a psychiatric issue here, much more a good exemple of the radical soldier thinking.

 

[bigfatron]

Now if the terrorists renounced violence and laid down their arms, would Israel withdraw their troops?

Now if Israel withdrew all troops from the Palestinian territories today, would terrorism in Israel stop?

"Yes" only applies to one of the above, and nobody here should have any difficulty figuring out which one I'm talking about.

Actually, RM, the answer is clearly 'no' to both - at the time of least violence in the aftermath of Camp David there were continuing settler constructions in West Bank and Gaza, and continuing military operations and occupation. Things were definitely easier for Palestinians, but the near-cessation of violence led to no such withdrawal as you say.

 

[bigfatron]

@Little Raven and Maj11 - great posts, made mine unecessary....

 

[G-Man]

Actually, RM, the answer is clearly 'no' to both - at the time of least violence in the aftermath of Camp David there were continuing settler constructions in West Bank and Gaza, and continuing military operations and occupation. Things were definitely easier for Palestinians, but the near-cessation of violence led to no such withdrawal as you say.

I believe he was refering to the Palestinian territories, which Israel didn't enter untill the start of the intifada. Also, the Palestinians weren't really living under occupation, as the control over them was of their own goverment.