[R&F] It seems like it's better to pass the Great Scientists that give Eurekas

[Lord Lakely]

Hypatia was killed just because of how OP her brain was. Imagine what she could've done had she lived.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

There is no debate around Einstein and Newton but one would query Hypatia's contribution.

Funny, Hypatia's the only one of the 3 whose life, I'd argue, relates to giving your Campus buildings a bonus. Hypatia was a teacher whose contributions could be viewed as augmenting the quality of scientific learning in her civilization.

Newton and Einstein were famous theorists whose contributions to global mathematical/physics theory were great enough that their names entered popular culture. You could argue they improved the output of universities globally. Not sure they did anything particularly beneficial for their particular civs over and above what they did for humanity as a whole.

 

[Halcyan2]

Funny, Hypatia's the only one of the 3 whose life, I'd argue, relates to giving your Campus buildings a bonus. Hypatia was a teacher whose contributions could be viewed as augmenting the quality of scientific learning in her civilization.

Newton and Einstein were famous theorists whose contributions to global mathematical/physics theory were great enough that their names entered popular culture. You could argue they improved the output of universities globally. Not sure they did anything particularly beneficial for their particular civs over and above what they did for humanity as a whole.

Newton's University was a World Wonder in Civ 3 (as well as Civ 2 & Civ 1)....

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Newton's_University_(Civ3)

"For 32 years, he held an important teaching post at Cambridge University, where he continued his own research while instructing a generation of students."

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Newton's University was a World Wonder in Civ 3 (as well as Civ 2 & Civ 1)....

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Newton's_University_(Civ3)

"For 32 years, he held an important teaching post at Cambridge University, where he continued his own research while instructing a generation of students."

Knew he was at Trinity in Cambridge. Didn't know he actually taught anybody. Thought he just researched and published.

 

[Cedbird77]

100%. Getting +20 science from a university under rationalism with both these two recruited is just wrong.
I don't understand why Einstein applies to universities instead of research labs.
Then we would have a very clean progression:
Hypatia: +1 to libraries
Newton: +2 to Universities
Einstein: +4 to research Labs

I still think Einstein is too powerful; +4 is absurd. I would almost rather newton and einstein give a slightly stronger effect to just one campus. Like "This campus produces +6 science (counts for adjacency) and +3 great scientist points. Must be activated on a campus with a university."

Point taken. But maybe Einstein is so powerful because The Einstein GS research gave the world the Atomic bomb area. Which ended WW2 and put the world on the Nuclear brink. Huge Scientific breakthrough in many applications Civilian , economic and War.

So you get the Einstein GS. You get a great boost! I like that simulation. It's interesting

 

[Sostratus]

Point taken. But maybe Einstein is so powerful because The Einstein GS research gave the world the Atomic bomb area. Which ended WW2 and put the world on the Nuclear brink. Huge Scientific breakthrough in many applications Civilian , economic and War.

Several great people have had unbelievable impact on history, certainly- although from a game balance perspective we often want to stray from history. As an example, if Einstein's activation simply gave you a handful of nuclear weapons, that could be excessively strong.

I like having stronger GPs and more mediocre GPs - it spices up the choices- but my point here was that you don't want anyone to be too strong. Like vanilla Adam Smith: a free economic policy was so good that people created builds and strategies dedicated to securing him. My biggest complaint about Einstein is actually that it applies to universities; you don't have to even invest in research labs first. (I think the Civ6 model of what a research lab actually represents is those institutes you often see attached or adjacent to major universities; the university itself being the educational side of the modern institution.)

In the same way, certain military technologies were utterly devastating, but it's generally enough to represent that as the next upgrade in a unit line than try to make something like a machine gun absolutely devastating to infantry.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

My biggest complaint about Einstein is actually that it applies to universities; you don't have to even invest in research labs first. (I think the Civ6 model of what a research lab actually represents is those institutes you often see attached or adjacent to major universities; the university itself being the educational side of the modern institution.)

Plus Research Labs could use some love. They're not particularly cost effective versus simply running Campus projects.

 

[sixty4half]

It's not really fair to compare the eureka Great Scientists to Newton or Einstein, which are both far too powerful.

100%. Getting +20 science from a university under rationalism with both these two recruited is just wrong.
I don't understand why Einstein applies to universities instead of research labs.
Then we would have a very clean progression:
Hypatia: +1 to libraries
Newton: +2 to Universities
Einstein: +4 to research Labs

I still think Einstein is too powerful;

Nobody is making that comparison. In fact, we're more pointing out that same FACT. Newton and Einstein are so much more powerful, that taking the chance at losing them because you took a Eureka Scientist is a chance that you shouldn't take. We're saying pass on the Eureka's because of this power disparity.

 

[Victoria]

Hypatia was a teacher whose contributions could be viewed as augmenting the quality of scientific learning in her civilization.

No issue with that rationalisation.. mine was more a response to ....

Hypatia, Newton and Einstein ......were fairly OP

In reality Newton was a super genius who was definately OP... as Wiki states "who is widely recognised as one of the most influential scientists of all time"
Einstein made some pretty key out of the box stuff that really changed things.. some other stuff a bit off but all in all a solid popular great scientist - mid rung
Hypatia - A genius who it seems could understand and so pass on the knowledge of those that went before so +1 for libraries fine... OP GS... nope, more bottom rung for a GS

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

In reality Newton was a super genius who was definately OP... as Wiki states "who is widely recognised as one of the most influential scientists of all time"
Einstein made some pretty key out of the box stuff that really changed things.. some other stuff a bit off but all in all a solid popular great scientist - mid rung
Hypatia - A genius who it seems could understand and so pass on the knowledge of those that went before so +1 for libraries fine... OP GS... nope, more bottom rung for a GS

I agree with all that. My observation was really just that Newton and Einstein didn't so much benefit their civ specifically as provide a general benefit to all of mankind. No question that giving them a strong impact for your civ exclusively is still a nod to their historical contribution. It's just I'd argue that tech-oriented great scientists generally provided more of a local bonus in real life than the pure theory ones. That's still true today. Mathematicians don't get to copyright their theorems.

However, as pointed out above, apparently Newton actually did teach, and not just come up with a theory of gravity and calculus. And Einstein can be viewed as having contributed during the war, not just coming up with the theory of relativity and his related theories.