Italy

[fireclaw722]

Again, this isn't a history lesson but a modmod of adding Italy to RFC so to TDK:
When it's asked to be a mod it doesn't mean disscus history. I didn't really mind it when it took up 3 pages but now it's taking up 11 pages of this "Lesson in Italian History".
To everyone(thats helping) we should probably get to work on this modmod.

 

[ZachScape]

Thanks Blizzrd and Fireclaw.
Now TDK and Bastille- Try to understand this (not in a condescending tone, but how else would you say that? Another example of jumping to conclusions on a text based forum):
When on an internet forum, you can't yell. You type. When words at a size to font wont help, you make it bigger. STFU was a way to emphasize the meaning, that clearly wasn't getting through to some posters. Now I have repeatedly said that the STFU pointed towards Charles was not a childish whim, or a disagreement with his argument, but a way to get through to him (which so far worked). I have apologized in advance in case I hurt his feelings. And I am not 'banning' him from the thread, as I would appreciate anyone's input on the mod, but this thread wasn't asking if it should be made, but more 'let's work on it' with anyone interested. But instead, you probably ignored me before you read anything else...

Now if anyone wishes to ignore me, I do not mind, nor am I mad. However, because the above part of my post was directed to those that ignored me, I would appreciate if somebody would C&P that part of the post onto another.

 

[dragodon64]

I haven't actually participated in the discussion (I've been checking CFC before bed last couple of weeks, too tired to counter), but I certainly think that Charles, Onedreamer, Rhye and anyone else have the right to argue as much as they want. A thread doesn't belong to the OP, their discussion is hardly off-topic.

Unfortunately, the trend of shutting people up when they say complicated (that some find boring) things is virulent on internet forums. But, hopefully the greatest development in the history of free speech won't be too hampered by the annoyance of bystanders.

 

[fetabobar]

Unfortunately internet forums are the playground of childish screamers and attention seekers
please don't feed the trolls!

 

[fireclaw722]

I haven't actually participated in the discussion (I've been checking CFC before bed last couple of weeks, too tired to counter), but I certainly think that Charles, Onedreamer, Rhye and anyone else have the right to argue as much as they want. A thread doesn't belong to the OP, their discussion is hardly off-topic.

Unfortunately, the trend of shutting people up when they say complicated (that some find boring) things is virulent on internet forums. But, hopefully the greatest development in the history of free speech won't be too hampered by the annoyance of bystanders.

Free Speech is in a very complicated aspect of the World(mostly becuase,not to point anyone out, people don't know when they talked 'till they are annoying people).
Plus, If you want to listen to weather or not Italy deserves the modmod then make your own tread, If you want to help make this mod please use this thread, AND please refrain from talking about Italian histroy.

Thank You and let's get back to the completely origanal topic(Italy replaced as Rome in RFC as a Modmod)

 

[blizzrd]

For those who didn't already know, this is a quote from the Forum Rules v4.3:

"Your rights to Freedom of Speech don't apply here."

 

[ZachScape]

Thanks again guys, you are officially my best friends on this forum.
But I find it funny that I am called a troll just because I typed a bad word, or I hurt someone's feelings. A lot on this forum are pretty uptight. Now when you go to AltHist, people curse at each other all the time, and insult them. But it is like that one post, the next post they are best friends, they get over it, and they appreciate the honesty.

And trolls are lurkers on a forum, that are just creepy and insult people on every turn, usually about a topic that does not apply to them. Yes, these people must go. But how am I in anyway a troll? 4 letters, and suddenly I am a troll. I have nearly 600 posts, and I challenge anyone of you to find even one of them that is disrespectful, besides 'that' one of course.

Once again, I did not attack him on a personal issue, or that I wanted him to agree that Italy should be a civ. He was so wrapped up in the debate, that he had to respond, not once again after my polite, courteous post, but twice! What in the world am I supposed to type? I have already done everything I could, in a polite fashion, which obviously wasn't working. So I stepped it up a notch. If any of you find that I was trolling, you really are way too sensitive (not the good kind).

Some of you find it that a thread can go off topic. While this is true, it should not turn into another topic. Probably a 20 post discussion, but this was a 200 post discussion! Now tell me that does not waste someone's time if they are looking for what the thread, not the OP, is about. Should I make a new thread? No. Should the discussion, especially such a raging one? Yes.

Now, I am tired of THIS discussion. We went from one to another, which shows OUR, not YOURs' short attention span. If anyone wants to create a topic that discusses how Charles was unfairly 'typed' at, be my guest. I am even more frustrated now, than when I was when I typed to Charles in the first place.

Now let us please, discuss the ITALY MOD.

 

[Mekajiki]

Why are you getting so worked up over the fact that people are calling you a troll? You had the momentum moving back towards the topic you wanted(creating the modmod) and you personally moved it back away into an entirely different discussion over trolling and whether or not you were justified.

This is an internet forum, stop caring about what other people here think of you and carry on the topic that you started this thread for.

 

[fireclaw722]

Things I've suggested previously.

Here's a few ideas.

Spoiler :

I thought I was the only one who was going to say anything.

UP:
Power of Italian Renniasance:
Great Person Points are doubled.



As for UHV's:

1.)Control Ethiopia, Libya, and Italy(if the core area would only be Rome) by 1920's
2.)Have Roma, or Rome, the most cultural city in Europe by 1970's(or should it be 1980's or 1990's)
3.)Control Tunisia, Algeria, and Egypt by 1940's

Just in case no one saw it(wouldn't be to suprising).

 

[bastillebaston]

Already two pages of please-shut-up-and-refrain-from-talking-about-history I disagree with people saying that history talk is off topic. Isn't alt history what RFC is all about? Personally I like to roleplay which means that I enjoy playing a civ more if I know some of their actual history.

@ Onedreamer, Charles, Rhye (when you are back from Japan) I appreciated your discussion it got me interested into playing as Italy. Do you know of any good history book (but not too thick!) that's available in English and covers all the basics for beginners like me?

 

[Padma]

Moderator Action: Re-Opened.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Unfortunately internet forums are the playground of childish screamers and attention seekers
please don't feed the trolls!

Better yet, report problematic posts. We can't be everywhere at once.

And now, lets cease the discussion of who's right, who's a troll, etc., and discuss the Italy Mod

 

[fireclaw722]

Another sugestion for the UP:

Power of Roman Civil War:
Units get +5 XP points until the Idustrial Era.


A UB idea:

Keep the Forum from the Romans and add:
and give the Italians the Rathus(since it isn't bieng used by any civ)


UU:

Condottiere:
Replaces Cuirassier
13 attack
2 movement
100 cost
Can flank attack cannon, trebuchet, and catapult
10% city attack

 

[Dumanios]

My Ideas
Italy
Spawns in 1750
Led by Benito Mussolini
UU:Bersaglieri(Replaces Rifleman,Starts with Guerrilla 1)
UBizzaria(Replaces Granary,+1 )
UHV Goals:
1: Defeat Ethiopia by 1900
2:Lose no cities until 1914
3:Rebuild the Roman Empire by 1960

 

[blizzrd]

My Ideas
Italy
Spawns in 1750
Led by Benito Mussolini
UU:Bersaglieri(Replaces Rifleman,Starts with Guerrilla 1)
UBizzaria(Replaces Granary,+1 )
UHV Goals:
1: Defeat Ethiopia by 1900
2:Lose no cities until 1914
3:Rebuild the Roman Empire by 1960

The issue with destroy Ethiopia by 1900 is that there is no guarantee that Ethiopia will exist to actually be destroyed in a 600AD start game. Only way would be a respawn before Italy's spawn, which relies on a lot of "what ifs" such as an unstable AI power conquering Aksum. Hardly certain to occur.

But I like the feel of the 3rd UHV that you have suggested.

 

[ZachScape]

Well, I'd rather use the units and buildings that are already available to us. And for the UP, I was thinking about something that would apply to Italy between the 1870s-1940s. Any suggestions bout that time period? (and they will spawn the industrial era, but keep brainstorming ).

Edit: I meant to post this after Fireclaw posted, but I clicked the wrong button and forgot about it. Give me time to read the others.

I like your UHVs, but I think it is more appropriate if they spawn in the 1870s. If they do spawn in the 1750s, the rifleman is a good UU as it is made, but too early for a 1870 spawn. And we have 2 options for a UB, from the link in the OP, but unless we can find something else already made...

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well then just change it to 2 or 3 cities in Ethiopia's area.

 

[fireclaw722]

a UP:

Spoiler :

Suggestion for the UP:

Power of Roman Civil War:
Units get +5 XP points until the end of the Idustrial Era.

Also

Spoiler :

Power of Italian Renneisance:
Tech penalty doesn't occur until the end of the Idustrial Era.

UB:

Spoiler :

Keep Frorum and add:
Coleseum(Can change wonder to The Roman Coleseum)
Replaces Ampitheter
gives extra happiness
+2 XP

There is somebody who made an Italy in the New Civilizations Forum Section.

 

[Bonci]

so why have Italy as a different civ from rome and then give it a roman like UP? XD

also the renaissance is finished by the time Italy spawns...

let's think something more modern like:

The Power of the Resurgence
foreign cities with italian culture have a chance to flip peacefully

or

The Power of the Economic Miracle
+5/10% hammers and/or gold in every city after the discovery of plastic

or (as I already proposed in a different thread)

The power of the Cultural Heritage
+2 culture and +1 happines in every city

The power of the Opera
automatically build a Theater in every built or conquered city


for the UB

as already said

Pizzeria
replaces grocer and gives +1/2 happines

Museum
replaces i don't know what maybe library and gives +15/20% culture?

and for the UU

Carabiniere
if not a rifleman maybe an infantry or a marine that starts with garrison

Alpino
a rifleman that starts with guerrilla

Folgore (it's the name of the brigade (the one that resisted at El Alamein) but i don't find a better name)
replaces the paratrooper and starts with drill

 

[dragodon64]

I think the first thing to decide upon is spawn date:
1720 for Kingdom of Sardinia
1861 for Kingdom of Italy

I definitely support the prior option. Even though Sardinia's unification of Italy didn't start for a century after the given spawn date, 1860 is just too late to be fun. Achieving goals in the late 18th and early 19th centuries when you start a few decades before the deadlines seems quite uninteresting in my opinion.

This brings up another point; how about spawning on Sardinia (with a navy, of course) as the Kingdom of Sardinia and having the first goal being the control of all Italy by 1860. The flip zone could include Piedmont and Savoy as well, although taking Savoy away from France may seem a little strange. A sizable spawn army would be needed to conquer and protect all of Italy.

I think controlling Italy should require at least 3 cities in Italy+Sardinia. Maybe add some of modern Slovenia and Croatia to that, since the kingdom did own that territory there. Coincidentally, that would also make the zone the same as the Roman spawn area.

Once all of Italy is unified, the name should change to the Kingdom of Italy, as it does with England to Britain. Italian Empire would be the next step.

 

[Bonci]

I like this idea very much

another idea for the UU:

Arditi
replaces Anti-Tank infantry
only has +50% vs armored
but has +100% vs machine guns

or maybe
start with commando
+50% vs armored and +25% vs machine guns