It's just ok? Somewhat underwhelming?

I finally got it working today (previously the game kept crashing for me on the "New Game" menu screen) but, meh, I don't know. To me the big stumbling block, as others have noted, is that your opponents are somewhat lacking in personality/identity. There's no sense of continuity it seems... just not my cup of tea. I guess the best way I can sum up how I feel about it is that somehow they managed to rip off the CIV series while at the same time discarding a lot of the things I like about the CIV games.

Not crazy about the UI either, it seems very cluttered and not super-intuitive.
 
I feel about it is that somehow they managed to rip off the CIV series while at the same time discarding a lot of the things I like about the CIV games.

Not crazy about the UI either, it seems very cluttered and not super-intuitive.
Only that they didn't rip off the civ series because most of the mechanics come from Endless Legend. If anything it's lacking a lot of things that made Endless Legend great, mostly the dynamic world with lots of things to do when you're not at war.

But if they're smart they'll remember that game exists and try to replicate its strengths
 
So I haven't bought or played the game and have only watched a couple of "lets plays", but there's something I'd like to know from those of you who have played it.

From what I've seen, it looks like a lot of the choices you make when building or selecting civics or choosing between cultures or selecting beliefs, is that you're making choices between +x or +y towards this or that yield, right? Like, some extra production here, extra strength on that unique unit there, extra gold income from this culture, extra faith from that civic etc. etc.

The thing that Civ6 has done quite well, in my opinion, is making it so that your choices can enable entirely different effects and in many cases even break standard game rules. For example, play as Gaul and your industrial zones are now like encampments, choose Music Censorship and rock bands are stopped from entering your borders, select the Monastic Isolation enhancer belief and your religious pressure doesn't drop when you lose a theological battle, build the Great Bath and floodplain tiles become immune to flood damage etc. etc.

So my question is... is that a fair assessment? Is Humankind just about choosing which yields to boost and how to boost them? Am I correct in saying that's a major difference between Civ6 and Humankind? Or am I seeing it wrong? I'm genuinely curious about this because it makes me wonder how much flavour and uniqueness the game has, so keen to hear what thoughts you guys have
 
All your examples weren‘t part of vanilla civ VI though and were added only later on. Standard civ VI didn‘t have many things that opened up new playstyles dynamically, and the ones it had were very railroading.

Humankind is a bit like an interactive excel spreadsheet, yes, but I like it tbh (but I also like other games that are like this such as EU4). To me, it results in a lot of freedom in decision making and flexibility. And some of these decisions are (to me) quite flavorful. Some civics can change what you do rather drastically though, and so can some culture choices. I wish for an handful of more interesting wonders, and maybe one more off-the-book culture per era.
 
Haha well it sounds really bland when you say it like that. I feel like the magic of the game is how much those different yields change the feel of the game. The first two era tend to play out as having quite pronounced strengths but very pronounced weaknesses (eg unless you take a money based culture supporting the maintenance on a large army takes substantial investment, but take a money culture and suddenly you have so much money it’s what you are using to build with). To me this feels as pronounced as playing Mali or Gaul in Civ6. Combat plays out in short-ish wars and skirmishes throuhout the game, and the terrain really make me feel more engaged with my units. I’m playing Persia for the first time, and the immortal is a classical spearman (other cultures don’t get a classical spearman so it means my entire infantry gets an upgrade) and at first glance it’s just “oh, it has 3 more strength than swordsmen others get at this stage, and deals 3 extra damage from higher ground/fortification, sounds kinda meh” but then I got into my first battle and now I’m thinking, how can I maneuver my army to get the Immortals always fighting from higher ground. And it really can’t be overstated how much fun the terrain is. For instance, the hoplites work identically to Civ6, but keeping formation throughout winding cliff allows them to punch through otherwise impenetrable choke points, giving them flavor they don’t get in Civ6. YMMV but HK makes Civ6 feel like a spreadsheet to me.
 
It needs another two years, but is definitely playable & fun already. Just very unbalanced & hugely underdeveloped. Could become a 9 plus for sure but right now is more like a 7.5 - impressive but not yet really good.
 
So I haven't bought or played the game and have only watched a couple of "lets plays", but there's something I'd like to know from those of you who have played it.

From what I've seen, it looks like a lot of the choices you make when building or selecting civics or choosing between cultures or selecting beliefs, is that you're making choices between +x or +y towards this or that yield, right? Like, some extra production here, extra strength on that unique unit there, extra gold income from this culture, extra faith from that civic etc. etc.

Yes, that's one issue I have with it. The game is very transparently just bucket-filling - Civ 6 fell into the same trap for at least its early development. From what I know of the update history of past Amplitude games, this is not likely to change with expansions as this sort of barebones pure-additive approach is just how they design their games, and the systems may not exist to do anything more nuanced.

So my question is... is that a fair assessment? Is Humankind just about choosing which yields to boost and how to boost them? Am I correct in saying that's a major difference between Civ6 and Humankind? Or am I seeing it wrong? I'm genuinely curious about this because it makes me wonder how much flavour and uniqueness the game has, so keen to hear what thoughts you guys have

I don't think Civ 6 departs from this as much as you think, but yes that's exactly the pattern. My problem with the approach is not so much that, it's that there aren't very meaningful tradeoffs and the specific choices to make are usually obvious, and this seems to be by design: for instance you get endless events which are 'choose between extra science for 10 turns (good), a small one-off money payment (irrelevant) or a stability boost (mostly irrelevant). Endless Legend had the same issue. In Civ, doing X usually stops you doing Y or at least slows progress - districts are strongly capped, production is limited and even the fastest production can only produce one thing a turn, city space is limited prompting you to make choices about what to put where that maximise investment. Settlers and workers have limited charges to expend each etc. etc.

In Humankind everything is there for the taking, and resources are largely interchangeable - you can have as many districts producing resources as you want, and buildings that buff them come faster than you can build them early game (and are automatically present in new cities later in the game), both gold and influence can be used to buy a lot of things (and gold has no other use that you're trading this off against) and if you rush-buy things you can make as many as you can afford a turn. Units have a nominal maintenance cost but buildings and districts don't seem to, so again go nuts. Civic choices are reversible for nominal cost (by the mid game you have more influence that you can ever spend). Only civ choice per era is locked. There's no need for settlers or workers, and city placement is all but irrelevant - you can place outposts that expand your workable tiles almost anywhere you want and add those to the city (as with a lot of things there is a nominal cost to stability that rarely has any detectable game effect).

It's all very much Civ-as-sandbox rather than Civ-as-strategy-game (you can do basically whatever you want knowing that you can still win regardless), which is something a lot of people love but it does lack depth and comes across as a bit bland.

how can I maneuver my army to get the Immortals always fighting from higher ground. And it really can’t be overstated how much fun the terrain is. For instance, the hoplites work identically to Civ6, but keeping formation throughout winding cliff allows them to punch through otherwise impenetrable choke points, giving them flavor they don’t get in Civ6.

I've started to appreciate the combat system following some larger battles in the game I finished yesterday. It was pretty late that I learned that high ground increases the range of my gunners, but it's a nice detail.

I suspect, though, that in practice this won't really make any more difference to the outcome of a battle than simply having good terrain placement in Civ VI, where you can also stick hoplites on choke points in hills. It's nicely thematic and feels more Total War than the shoddy 'it's like autoresolving, only you spend three rounds meaninglessly 'roleplaying it' Endless Legend version, but I expect I'd tire of the novelty and go back to autoresolving eventually.
 
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(you can do basically whatever you want knowing that you can still win regardless)

You are talking about Civ 6, right? Because that is the very definition of it according to many here.
 
You are talking about Civ 6, right? Because that is the very definition of it according to many here.

Indeed, that's a problem I had with Civ VI and was vocal about when still on that forum. Humankind seems to be in very much the same mould, but with even fewer constraints limiting your ability to do whatever you want. At least mechanically - I can't speak authoritatively about how difficulty influences that, since unlike Civ VI I haven't yet played Humankind at the highest difficulties, but I don't buy the argument that this design approach would cease to be a flaw (from a strategy game perspective - it's exactly right for a game that wants to be a sandbox) just by making the game harder. In principle the game design gives you very few constraints on what you can do, to a greater degree than even the most generous Civ game so far (i.e. Civ VI).

Don't get me wrong: I've liked Humankind so far, playing a full game out in 7 hours across only a couple of days. And I think all commentary on Amplitude games in general should allow for their relative inexperience - I may react fairly hard against the overblown praise their older entries have received, but no one should expect them to be - as your sig puts it - 'Civ-killers'. The thread title is telling: "It's just ok?" as a disappointed question.

Yes, it's just okay - but I don't think anyone should have expected more. Amplitude games suffer from being overhyped, not from being bad games. They are just okay, and I don't think being ok is a strong criticism of this game or a cause to consider it underwhelming - it's actually a much better effort than I expected either from their past games or from previews of this one, even if I would argue that much of that is because it clones Civ a bit too closely.
 
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Indeed, that's a problem I had with Civ VI and was vocal about when still on that forum. Humankind seems to be in very much the same mould, but with even fewer constraints limiting your ability to do whatever you want. At least mechanically - I can't speak authoritatively about how difficulty influences that, since unlike Civ VI I haven't yet played Humankind at the highest difficulties, but I don't buy the argument that this design approach would cease to be a flaw (from a strategy game perspective - it's exactly right for a game that wants to be a sandbox) just by making the game harder. In principle the game design gives you very few constraints on what you can do, to a greater degree than even the most generous Civ game so far (i.e. Civ VI).

Here is the expectation that part of the constraints will come from overall difficulty (not only AI diff, but map-related and other factors), but it is too soon to say, at least for me. Tried my first game on Nation and it was not that hard, but I knew how to deal with the game as I participated in all Open Devs.

Started a new one on Empire with a little overcrowding of a normal map, and it feels very different at start, including AI early threat and buildup. We will see how it progresses. I would not be surprised to find that the difficulty, and therefore some constraint potential, increases when there is more pressure over land in an overcrowded map as opposed to an "empty" one where the player can expand a piacere.
 
Yes, that's one issue I have with it. The game is very transparently just bucket-filling - Civ 6 fell into the same trap for at least its early development. From what I know of the update history of past Amplitude games, this is not likely to change with expansions as this sort of barebones pure-additive approach is just how they design their games, and the systems may not exist to do anything more nuanced.

Cheers, that confirms what I thought I was seeing.

There were certainly exciting mechanics I picked up on, for instance in how battle and diplomacy are done.
If nothing else, my hope is that a future Civ game will learn from and bring in some of the good things Humankind has to offer.
 
Yeah the game becomes quickly a thing where you just plop down every building in every city and districts next to disctricts, it is pretty repeptitive, and especially as the buildings dont show on the map (only districts) there's not as much detail as in civ where you see what buildings a district has or if your city has watermill etc.
(Also now I really appreciate how Civ 6 shows easily what a city contains, in HK even the unique districts easily blend in and are hard to spot!)

There's the positive dopamine rushes to brain when you build stuff, but imho on it's current state it doesnt have the versatily and different approaches of civ.
 
How is the AI in humankind?
Specifically:
  1. How well does it handle combat?
  2. How logical is it in diplomatic decision making? Does it treat it like a game or does it role-play?
  3. How effective is it at posing a challenge to the human player?
 
1. Surprisingly well, though I may just be used to Civ in this respect
2. Role-play for the most part, I’ve had a couple declare wars that they definitely couldn’t win on metropolis difficulty
I can’t answer 3 yet as I’m still getting a handle on some of the mechanics, science snowballing especially
 
1. AI has pretty effective moment and attacks the weekend possible point as far as I can tell. They do spread damage a bit. In my very first game since release the AI camped across a river rather than attack my perfectly fortified hoplites, but usually they are pretty aggressive, which leads them to take beach casualties. They definitely stay inside fortification now (with beta update), 100% of the time when you only have melee (not my usual play but I skipped archers as Mycenaeans) but when I brought in some crossbows in advance of gunpowder then they tended to be more aggressive at running after them, though usually stayed inside when they could. I find I win battles 80% with next to no casualties, 15% with moderate to heavy casualties, and 5% of the time am defeated.

3. This is where the challenge comes in. On the highest difficulty, I find I always end up in a late ancient war against an early classical AI. My bows start doing minimum damage (random between 5-25%) and I have to leave my warriors on defense to get as many range attacks as possible. And the AI usually outnumbers me with their superior. By the time I get some classical units out I can usually win this war, and hopefully pick up one of their cities, but it usually puts me a few thousand fame and a solid era behind the leader. This is where that damage spreading the AIs do comes in, most battles will end with most units near death, and if all warriors become weakened to soon, the AI quickly kills everyone. They could definitely be more strategic (eg mass their troops a bit longer and truly outnumber you in a single battle), but either they are too simple for that, or the designers felt it was too frustrating to the player.

Then the game becomes a race to catch up and find an opportunity during sufficient tech parity to beat up on a stronger AI. Once I am on truly even tech footing, I have found the challenge of the war becomes less, and the challenge becomes much more about catching up in fame.

2. IDK, this part infests me less, but I like that it’s pretty common to have some friends and some enemies. Trading with everyone can quickly make the top 4 players a little friendly, but soon someone asks for someone’s (your) land and you have to accept/refuse to get your suspended trade routes back. But they feel like other players/empires, not like caricatures as in Civ6.
 
How well does it handle combat?

Quite well, all in all, and they improved it in the latest beta. For starters, it uses its units. And does some stuff well. It's not perfect, but at least it plays the tactical game in a correct way.

How logical is it in diplomatic decision making? Does it treat it like a game or does it role-play?

It has an attitude towards you, with a breakdown, and acts accordingly. So no crazy "Friendly but then its war!" situations.

How effective is it at posing a challenge to the human player?

Depends a bit on the game mechanics sometimes holding them back. If strategics are scarce and you control them, they can't build proper units and it's a walk in the park. In the release version the AI didn't prioritize much the technologies that added a militia upgrade, so it was with draftees still in the endgame, but the patch seems to have improved that. Basically, the tech rules are very flexible, which doesn't help the AI if they ignore some techs that can make them easy fodder for a warring player.

I think it's pretty good overall. It builds armies, builds ships, builds airplanes, and knows how to use units in battle.
 
I'm very pleasantly surprised with the game. I tried the demo last year for Stadia and thought it sucked and didn't really think I'd enjoy it. But now I'm thinking it gives Civ a really good run for its money and with some future DLC and patches we may have a new leader in the 4X world history turn based strategy games.
 
How is the AI in humankind?
Specifically:
  1. How well does it handle combat?
  2. How logical is it in diplomatic decision making? Does it treat it like a game or does it role-play?
  3. How effective is it at posing a challenge to the human player?

1. I think it handles combat in the tactical part well
2. I feel the different AI personas play pretty much the same, maybe it's the general lack of personality they have that adds to it, but I see no difference if my neighbor is Victor Hugo avatar or PhatWarlord69 avatar
3. In low-to mid level no challenge, later difficulties it can easily snowball in the score system especially if it wars against it's neighbors, then best thing to do is keep an eye on which AI will snowball and try to cripple it with invasion.
For me it's frustrating because I can't find a skill level where I can roleplay but still have a challenge, in higher ones there's too much min maxing and going the obvious route (as wide as possible, huge production everywhere)
 
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