jar01: spain, emporer

CKS · Dec 19, 2018

Sounds like a good plan. We need those roads just as much as mines, because we have a really commerce-poor start.

Where do we send the settler? Blue shares access to two BG but needs a lot of forest chops before it will be useful without those tiles, which Barcelona also will want. Yellow gives us access to the east coast, and it has some grassland tiles available. 1 SW of orange is similar to yellow, except not on the east coast. I know I wrote earlier that I liked blue for city 3, but I think I like yellow better. (The volcano erupting makes me more wary of settling next to it.)

Elephantium · Dec 19, 2018

Re: Worker moves, agreed @ not interrupting any current jobs. I'd prioritize roads right now and run the factory at 4-6 until we have the two improved BGs in place.

Re: settlers, I'd say yellow-green-blue-orange. Putting orange next to the volcano is a risk, so delaying it a couple of turnsets saves a bit on that risk. Plus, if the town does get destroyed, settling it later means it's a proportionally smaller part of our tribe.

We should start thinking about our next dotmaps, too.

tjs282 · Dec 20, 2018

Just to let you folks know, I haven't played yet, but I do still plan to. Although I did already know that my older son's school was going to hold its annual Christmas concert yesterday evening (my wife was singing in the parents' choir), we underestimated the run-time. We finally got the boys into bed at about 10 pm, and then had a long chat (and a Glühwein!) before she went to bed herself at 11.30 ish, but by that point I didn't feel sufficiently alert to start playing my turnset.

So, apologies for the delay: I will play this evening, and then edit/update this post with the turnlog either directly afterwards, or tomorrow.

jarred! · Dec 20, 2018

All is well, tjs!

I like yellow dot for the next town. Hopefully some curraghs on that side of the island will give us some new contacts.
On the orange dot, I think I favor settling 1NE initially, then filling in the spot 2N of Madrid later. We won't be too cramped now, and it's a little more conducive to ICS later. That said, settling the close spot first shouldn't hurt us, as long as both Madrid and Orange are small, which should be most of the game.

Nathiri · Dec 20, 2018

I think your delay has my set line up better in my schedule anyway.

tjs282 · Dec 20, 2018

I've played 5 turns, but I'd like to pause for some consultation on tech-trading.

In addition to the Romans and the Hittites, I have now also met the Sumerians (also on our island, alarmingly closer than the Romans) and the Arabs to the northeast (possibly on our island, but most likely not, since they don't seem to have met someone to sell them Alph). When I met Gil, he was already up Bronze, WarCode and Myst. When I met Abu he had Bronze and WC, but not Alph -- but on the last IBT, he suddenly also acquired both Masonry and Wheel (presumably either through a contact(s) I haven't made yet, or by Scouting).

No one has Writing yet, but we are still 16 turns away ourselves (and can't go any faster right now). Mursi still only has Bronze + 0g (I think his island is small, and he's alone), Julie has Bronze + WC + 20 gold, Gil has Myst + 0 gold. We currently have 139g, and by temporarily zeroing all the sliders we can get 9 gpt. Our next Settler should arrive this IBT (if the Governator does the right thing), so gpt will drop, but so will needed LUX%-spending (until we're back at Pop5, by which time Yellow will also be founded).

Abu currently offers:
Bronze + WarCode + 5g = Alph
OR
Masonry = Alph + 8g
OR
Wheel = Alph + 31g

CAII says Myst, Wheel, and Masonry are all worth 152 beakers to us, Alph is 160. So I'm inclined to buy Masonry (also gives us Pyramids + Palace as prebuilds), and try and trade it around. If I can then extract Myst from Gil in part-exchange (135 gold + 9 gpt alone "will not be accepted"), I should then be able to pass that (effective monopoly-tech) back to Abu for Wheel, to Mursi for Bronze, and to Julie for WC (and possibly IronWork, if he's researched it yet). But that means giving Alph to (possibly) another landmass.

What do you all think?

Mid-set savegame attached below (I'm not done yet!)

CKS · Dec 20, 2018

There are a lot of tribes with alphabet in the game. I say go ahead and trade it for masonry. Let's get the pyramids built somewhere on our island and get some use out of alphabet before other curraghs come calling and we lose our chance to trade.

Elephantium · Dec 20, 2018

Trading Alphabet sounds good to me. It'll be good to catch up on techs!

Also, I did notice that "emphasize production" is turned off in the governor settings.

jarred! · Dec 21, 2018

Great job with the contacts! More than half the tribes started the game with the alphabet, so we should get for it what we can (especially if we can get all of this!)
Barbs are off also, so the Arabs had to have traded with someone. Egypt was the only tribe that started with masonry, and no one started with the wheel.

tjs282 · Dec 21, 2018

CKS said:
There are a lot of tribes with alphabet in the game. I say go ahead and trade it for masonry. Let's get the pyramids built somewhere on our island and get some use out of alphabet before other curraghs come calling and we lose our chance to trade.

Elephantium said:
Trading Alphabet sounds good to me. It'll be good to catch up on techs!

Fair enough, that was my feeling too, but for a Culture-game, I wasn't sure how much we wanted to help the AI through the tree.

Time to put on my wheeler-dealer hat then...

Elephantium said:
Also, I did notice that "emphasize production" is turned off in the governor settings.

Whoops! I usually have that selected, and certainly wouldn't have turned it off (intentionally) during this game, so thanks for the heads-up!

(I still got the IBT-shields for the Gran, though, so I guess it's not always essential, e.g. if FPT is really high).

Off I go again...

tjs282 · Dec 21, 2018

OK, here y'are (Mostly Spoiler'd for your convenience

)

Spoiler Session 1 :

Spoiler Session 2 :

Note that we should be at Turn 40 (2150 BC) by now, but instead we are only at Turn 38. Did jarred! and/or CKS not play their full 10 turns?

But given that we are now at tech-parity with Sumeria (and ahead of everyone else we know), and are about to get our next Settler*, I stopped here anyway, rather than making up those last 2 turns.

*Even though Madrid reports 2T to completion, the Settler will complete on this IBT. I would strongly recommend sending it north to block the choke (New Purple dot) before we Settle New Orange...

Spoiler Adjusted dotmap for the team's consideration :

After the Settler appears, Madrid's citizens should be rearranged for 5 FPT and 7-8SPT for the next one, resetting for 5FPT + 6SPT (using the Lakes) after it gets back to Pop5 (more Commerce on the second 2 turns will help keep order, and allow Barc and Seville some more shields). This is pretty easy to figure out.

After one more Settler (4T) and 2 Warriors or 1 Archer (2T), we should be ready to roll with Tusker's Pop5-7 Warrior+Settler factory (so long as no-one roads the Iron yet!)

Exploration is also going well...

Spoiler Our latest world map (imported from CAII) :

CKS · Dec 21, 2018

Sounds good!
I definitely agree that New Purple needs to be settled next. Then I'd go for New Yellow. Filling in our core cities in the south can be done a little later, but Sumeria is going to be settling toward us. Things are looking pretty good.

Elephantium · Dec 21, 2018

tjs282 said:
*Even though Madrid reports 2T to completion, the Settler will complete on this IBT.

I read this in the voice of James Earl Jones. :lol:

Nice calculated risk with the western Curragh. It paid off!

IMO we should raze any Sumerian cities that interfere with the "yummy" spot. When the time comes, of course...

Next player should make sure all three cities have "emphasize production" set -- and make sure that future cities are going to have that setting. IIRC it's two separate settings for "this city" vs. "all cities"

+1 for the dotmap :thumbsup:

I agree @ new purple for the next settler.

Re: turn #s - putting on my detective hat -

jarred!'s log showed 20 turns, ending at 3050 BC. However, T20 was "didn't do anything", so I'm counting 19.
Then CKS played 11 turns ending in 2590 BC (including 3050 BC). So far so good. T30.
tjs282 played 10 turns with T1 being 2590 BC (I normally count the handoff date as "turn 0"). T39.

So...counting 4000 BC as T0 instead of T1, we get current turn = T38.

** Generally SGs have been played with passing the save "just before hitting enter", at the end of the turn. Then the next player looks around and ends the turn before playing the rest of the set. IMO it's helpful because you get context from the AI's IBT moves before you have to make movement decisions. It's a small thing, but it's helpful.

tjs282 · Dec 21, 2018

Elephantium said:
I read this in the voice of James Earl Jones.

"And so the ~~circle~~ Settler becomes complete. Once I was the learner, now I am the master..."
"Only a master of ~~evil~~ nonsense, ~~Darth~~ TJ"
:rotfl:

Elephantium said:
tjs282 played 10 turns with T1 being 2590 BC (I normally count the handoff date as "turn 0")

That was actually what I did initially, but then I discovered that no units had been moved, as if I'd inherited a 'start-of-turn' save, rather than an 'end-of-turn' save.

And then I didn't hit a nice round year-number -- nor Turn 40, per CAII, which also numbers the 4000 BC turn as "Turn 0" -- at the end of my set as I'd expected to, either. So me were confuzled, and mis-numbered my turns accordingly.

Elephantium said:
** Generally SGs have been played with passing the save "just before hitting enter", at the end of the turn.

That's what I've done here.

All units' move-points have been used, but Nathiri can still re-assign Barc's and Seville's Curragh-builds to Workers or Warriors if you-all decide we don't need any more boats (but I think we do!).

(Please don't reassign Madrid's Settler-build though!

)

Nathiri · Dec 23, 2018

Sorry, forgot tjs did finish his last few turns. I've also been busy though. I was at work till 1:30AM Saturday night, then the usual Sunday stuff.

Could someone have a simple goal list for my turnset that I should achieve?

I see planting purple dot with the current settler incoming, then....

CKS · Dec 23, 2018

Goals:
Finish setting up Madrid to run as a 5-7 warrior+settler pump.
Settle according to the dotmap in post 51, starting with New Purple. I'd like New Yellow after that, so long as Sumeria hasn't taken it.
Continue exploring to find more tribes.
Avoid hooking up iron.
Build curraghs and workers.

tjs282 · Dec 24, 2018

CKS said:
Finish setting up Madrid to run as a 5-7 warrior+settler pump.

@Nathiri:
This should start being do-able on your set: once the Game-Forest is roaded (in 6T), we can use it at Pop5/6, because the citizen will be bringing in the commerce to keep them happy (with the LUX%-spending). With the 2 Cattle, a couple of mined BGs, the Forest, plus the city-tile, plus a Lake, we will get the magic 10 SPT.

The only thing you need to be careful of is to get the pump running neatly, starting at Pop5. If you build 1 more Settler after the current one (4T at Pop4-6, average 7 SPT + 2 growth-shields), then 1 Archer (2T at Pop4, 9-10 SPT, +2 growth-shields), it should match up neatly: getting you to Pop5 with an empty food-box, and 9-10 SPT available straight off the bat. Then build the Warrior first to help keep order at Pop6, build the Settler to drop back to Pop5, and since the Warrior should no longer be needed as MP, he can accompany the new Settler to its destination.

The new towns will need road-connections, because we will need to be able to get mil-units up to the choke-town (New Yellow) fast to counter Summie incursions.

But if at some point you have a Worker who can't start a new roading/flatland job the same turn they finish their last job, but can reach the Gem-Mountain in 1T, then it also would be good to get the Gem-Mountain roaded (1+9T with one Worker), so we can reduce LUX% and raise SCI% after Writing comes in.

(IIRC, we're still >10T to writing at SCI%=10%, but someone else learns it first, then we should buy it if we can afford to. Not sure if the sling would still be an option if Writing is widely known; if not, then we should go for Philo immediately at SCI%=max., so we can at least grab CoL as a freebie to get us closer to Republic).

CKS said:
Build curraghs and workers.

Workers preferably from Barc, since the Cow lets it regrow faster. Wouldn't bother building a Gran there though.

I'll be back online on the 26th at the earliest, so Merry Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzah/Whatever to you all

Nathiri · Dec 24, 2018

Switch Barcelona's curragh to a worker then I end turn.

Turn 39: I send settler north, move curraghs, and set capital to another settler.

General movement, move one south worker north to road up there instead. Up Lux spending to avoid disorder.

Turn 42: Curragh completes in Seville, switch it to Warrior.

Turn 43: Toledo is built on Purple. New settler completes in Madrid. Started roads at Barcelona, switch Barcelona to a warrior.

Turn 44: I meet egyptian warrior on the eastern island near Seville.

Turn 45: Warrior completes in Madrid, road of deer completes. Meet India.

Turn 47: Settler nearly complete in capital. I micro it to lake tiles etc. Hopefully I did this right. I didn't build an archer however, just one warrior from the capital.

Seville also completes a warrior and I send that north. Barcelona is building another worker, the warrior it built I left in city. Growth lines up with the worker.

Turn 48: Settler completes next turn in Madrid with growth in 1 turn to pop7. I probably didn't do this entirely optimal

. But it's going to get done. I tried to follow your instructions tjs, but I hesitated. Settler has one more tile before getting to Yellow. One warrior accompanies, and one follows.

No one has Writing as far as I can see.

Sorry if a little brief. Not sure what I should include in these reports. They just seem like tiny moves in the grand scheme of things.

Did I miss a turn? Anyway, someone else can take over from here.

CKS · Dec 24, 2018

We are making good progress. Madrid's settler didn't come out right, but we are still doing well.

We learn writing in two turns, and so far no one else knows it. Let's go max on code of laws. If we find out someone else knows writing, we should stop to consult - if we are only a few turns into CoL we may want to switch to philosophy. Three of the unmet tribes started with alphabet, so they could have learned writing a while ago. The tribes we know about don't seem very advanced, though.

The warrior fortified on the mountain by Barcelona should go somewhere else - Madrid as an MP perhaps. Since we have no barbs, he isn't doing any good where he is.

I'd like to see every place except Madrid and Barcelona rush temples as they get to 10 shields and 2 pop. Getting a few more grass tiles for our towns would be helpful. Light blue needs some chops in order to grow; if we can direct them into a temple for Barcelona and light blue, that'd be great. If Barcelona grew a bit while building a temple, we might also peel off a settler for pink from Barcelona.

If we cut the road from Barcelona toward the iron, we could set up pink with a barracks and iron without interfering with the warrior-settler pump in Madrid. Pink could build things fairly speedily. Alternatively, we could set up Toledo with a barracks and iron (without cutting a road, since it isn't built yet), but Toledo can't build rapidly yet. Once we get a territory expansion from the temple we'll rush soon, Toledo looks better. I like that it is on the way to Sumeria, but I don't like that it would keep us from roading north.

Nathiri · Dec 24, 2018

CKS said:
We are making good progress. Madrid's settler didn't come out right, but we are still doing well.

We learn writing in two turns, and so far no one else knows it. Let's go max on code of laws. If we find out someone else knows writing, we should stop to consult - if we are only a few turns into CoL we may want to switch to philosophy. Three of the unmet tribes started with alphabet, so they could have learned writing a while ago. The tribes we know about don't seem very advanced, though.

The warrior fortified on the mountain by Barcelona should go somewhere else - Madrid as an MP perhaps. Since we have no barbs, he isn't doing any good where he is.

I'd like to see every place except Madrid and Barcelona rush temples as they get to 10 shields and 2 pop. Getting a few more grass tiles for our towns would be helpful. Light blue needs some chops in order to grow; if we can direct them into a temple for Barcelona and light blue, that'd be great. If Barcelona grew a bit while building a temple, we might also peel off a settler for pink from Barcelona.

If we cut the road from Barcelona toward the iron, we could set up pink with a barracks and iron without interfering with the warrior-settler pump in Madrid. Pink could build things fairly speedily. Alternatively, we could set up Toledo with a barracks and iron (without cutting a road, since it isn't built yet), but Toledo can't build rapidly yet. Once we get a territory expansion from the temple we'll rush soon, Toledo looks better. I like that it is on the way to Sumeria, but I don't like that it would keep us from roading north.

I was trying to count the shields and I wasnt sure about the archer. I'm still a little confused sometimes just how everything comes together with no waste. With all those little tiny boxes, I get uncertain.

jar01: spain, emporer

Deity

Trampling the AI

Stone \ Cold / Fish

King

Commander

Stone \ Cold / Fish

Attachments

Deity

Trampling the AI

King

Stone \ Cold / Fish

Stone \ Cold / Fish

Attachments

Deity

Trampling the AI

Stone \ Cold / Fish

Commander

Deity

Stone \ Cold / Fish

Commander

Attachments

Deity

Commander

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