Jason scores for COTM 20K games

[King Of America]

Winning a 20K game in Conquests is both harder and takes longer than in vanilla/PTW becuase military leaders can no longer rush Great Wonders.

Has the Jason formula (esp. "best time") been altered to take this into consideration? How much longer is a 20K win supposed to take in Conquests (I know, "your mileage may vary" )?

 

[AlanH]

Hmm. There's no allowance made for this in the Jason date calculations. I *think* the date variations for C3C were established before we decided to remove Scientific Leaders, so the effect was not taken into account. We need an input from Jason's dad, Aeson, on whether, and how, this should affect the 20K best date.

 

[socralynnek]

On the other hand, there are new wonders in C3C which might make it easier to get a 20K, so maybe it can be the same year.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

20K definetely takes a lot longer in c3c, and even longerwith SGLs removed (ok, that makes a difference of one or two wonders, if at all). While SoZ and MoM are great for 20k and pretty cheap, this by no means compares to easily 5 rushed Wonders in ptw.
And SoZ is completely random anyway.
ToA and KT don't really help here; KT gives only 2cpt, and ToA is so expensive that'll mean to miss out more important wonders like MoM (not for the culture, for the happiness) and TGLib most likely.
And, another thing thatmade 20k victoriesmore difficult in c3c is that the FP city now suffersfrom substantial corruption before Police Stations. A 20kvictory before 1800AD is basically impossible now without SGLs, Ivory or an ultra-early, leader-rushed Heroic Epic.

But also, because it now requires much more planing instead of luck with Leaders, this also happens to be my favorite victory condition now. Did win it on Deity, andmind you, I already completed cotm5 that way .

 

[Aeson]

I don't think it's worth worrying about. The dates are going to be pretty close to the same in C3C and Civ/PtW. All else (territory/population) equal, the difference of 20 turns is only going to be ~1% anyways.

Even if we were to balance it perfectly for no SGLs though, it's going to be unbalanced with 2 SGLs. Nearby terrain is the major factor in 20k in any case and that will account for most of the variation in how far off the best dates are.