JOE-07 - Surfer Dudes!

[FuRRie]

Played my first 20 (rather un-eventful) turns

T0: Select Bronze Working as tech
Settle in place => Work Boat (Swap tile from Corn to Forst Grassland, WB in 23)

T4: Find Pigs and Stone, too bad we can't settle

T7: We meet Qin Shi Huang (Ind/Pro)

T11: Pop a hut => Experience => Promote warrior to Woodsman 2

T13: Islam founded far, far away.

T15: We meet Washington (Exp/Cha), he is very close to Qin, and Qin is very close to us!

T19: Washington pops a hut, one turn before we could

T20: End of my turnset

Screens of our lands:


Qin and Washington:


Here's the roster:
Quotey - Up - 15 Turns
fuRRie - 10 Turns
The Sansman - On Deck - 10 Turns
JesusOnEez - 10 Turns
frankcor - 10 Turns

 

[Quotey]

I'd have placed more emphasis on scouting the coast, but else there's nothing to complain about.

 

[FuRRie]

I had the same idea, should have scouted more coast, but I do believe the Woodsman 2 promotion makes up for that, as scouting can be done much faster now.

 

[Quotey]

Since there is not much to do or comment on, I assume JOE will be fine with me taking my turns.

Oh, and I wrote a ton regarding MMing coastal starts. Yuck!

Turn 0 (20)

Notice a Plains hill by London... I prefer to work that while building the first 2 workboats, since I THINK that comes out first in the end, but at least you thought about it changing to the grass forest.

Also, I decide to starve London for a turn to get the WB out a turn earlier. I'm pretty sure that would come out ahead, losing 2 food to get +3 earlier.

Turn 1 (21)

Of course, I get hardest MM thing to do with coastal starts.

We have Ocean Fish (5-0-1 improved) and Coastal Clams (4-0-3 improved). Is it worth losing out on 2c to get 1f extra? Of course, there's no real calculations to do this, so you have to go by what you think is best ATM.

I'd also get the 4f a turn earlier by choosing the clams, so it would take 3 more turns for the fish to pay off AND we get an extra turn of 2c. I eventually decide to net the clams.

I work the boted clams and the forested plains hill in London. 14 turns to grow, 11 to next WB, and 2 to BW (but the extra commerce will likely save us a turn or two on the next tech.)

Turn 3 (23)

BW comes in and I think that working the plains hill was a mistake because I'm just going to revolt and whip the boat...

Research set to Agriculture.

Turn 4 (24)

Whip the WB in London.

Oh, BTW, the extra commerce cut Agriculture research down by 3 turns, but we don't really care if we get it 3 turns sooner.

Turn 5 (25)

Turns out our growth to 3 (to start a worker) and the warrior will come out almost perfect due to working the plains hill before whipping. I love it when a plan comes together.

Turn 13 (33)

Stop 2 turns early due to Agricultutre coming in.

Here is the nearest copper:

Spoiler :

We'd have to get a border expansion for it to claim copper, it's really far away and it would need to get to culture level 4 by the end of the game to get all its coastal tiles.

We can either go Hunting -> Archery next or Anumal Husbandry next. Or even Hunting -> Animal Husbandry, as we may find copper to the north. I managed to pop a warrior in the south, so our W2 warrior should scout the north coast.

Rooster (assuming this is not a JOE exclusive term ):

Quotey [just played]
fuRRie
The Sansman (UP) please play 12 turns as I played 2 less
JesusOnEez {on deck}
frankcor

 

[FuRRie]

Good turns Quotey, the swap to the plain Hills was a good move, I was considering it from the start, but that would leave us stagnant and I didn't want that early on.

I'm thinking Animal Husbandry, maybe we catch some coast Horses, but Hunting first is acceptable.
Sansman, try scouting up North a bit, looks like we allrdy got a nice picture down south, we can put down some 'junk' cities there later on, the fill everything up nicely.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Good opening moves guys. With the workboat, I would have done the same as Quotey and worked the plains hill. It may be worth mentioning that I do MM, but I do it by feel and not by numbers. Working a plains hill to crack out a Workboat always "feels" better in the long run, but I don't do the math.

I'm not sure how long it takes for barbs to start appearing on Monarch, but should Archery be a priority soon as we can't get to Copper particularly quickly? AH is an option, obviously but if we don't get Horses nearby, we would have wasted research we could have used on Hunting/Archery.

Under normal circumstances, I would go for AH or IW and rush Mao as soon as possible, but since we can't take any inland cities for ourselves, I'm loath to raze many early on. I'd rather the AI sorted out their own borders in the longer term. The last thing I want to do is wipe out an AI, leaving a large amount of space for Washington (for example) to expand into a super-power that we'll have trouble managing. If we can use diplomacy and keep the peace amongst the AI as much as possible, I think that will benefit us by keeping them small (albeit we'll be warring ALOT later on).

 

[The Sansman]

This is my got it and playing now.

Looking at the save I think I will continue with Hunting and then start Archery. This is purely for Barbarian defense but I am torn between going for Animal Husbandry or Iron Working as the tech afterwards.

I think I will start a settler since we are two turns from growing to size three. I agree with scouting up north since the AI is a bit far from the coast we have some time before they get there so we can expand there with the second or third settler.

Shoot!! I just realized I have to remove BUG not a big deal since I have only been looking at the save.

 

[The Sansman]

Turn 0

Move Warriors (2) Northward

Turn 1

Move Warriors (2) Northward


Turn 2

Move Warriors (2) Northward

IBT

Lion attacked Woodie 2 Warrior near China and lost.


Turn 3

Heal Warrior for 2 turns.
Move Warrior Northward
Notice that London as grown to 3. Warrior is almost completed (1 turn left) will start settler next. We are at happiness cap so why not. I will whip the settler.

Turn 4

Warrior completed and moved out of the city to scout North. Settler is started for 17 turns.
Move Warrior Northward

IBT

Panthers attacked new Warrior near London and lost.
Hunting is completed.



Will choose Archery (8 turns) next I think a garrison is going to be required soonish.

Turn 5

Move wounded warrior to treed hill to heal.
Move Warriors (2) Northward.

Turn 6

Heal wounded warrior.
Move Warriors (2) Northward.
Notice that London is not at Happiness cap . Shoot without bug I have to check the city every turn to see when the whip anger disappears . Start a work boat (45 turns) to grown London (3 turns)

Turn 7

Move Warriors (2) Northward.

Turn 8

Move Warriors (2) Northward.

Turn 9

Move Warriors (2) Northward.

Turn 10

Move Warriors (2) Northward.
Woodie 2 Warrior has a wolf pack beside it.
Switch London back to Settler (13turns).

IBT

Wolf pack attacks and dies. No damage to the Warrior.

Turn 11

Move Woodie 2 Warrior Northward.
Move other Warrior towards London.
Third Warrior is still healing.

IBT

Qin adopts Slavery.

Turn 12

Move Woodie 2 Warrior Northward and found ...



Looks like we have a limit as to how far North we can expand. Also I still have not found another source of Copper. I think after Archery we should tech Iron Working.
Move other Warrior into London.
Third Warrior is still healing, I hope next turn he is done.

What I have found so far.



London



The thing I do not understand is Archery was suppose to be completed in 8 turns, but 12 turns later we still do not have Archery . I did not fool with the London so I do not know why there is still two more turns before it completes

I have placed a marker for a possible City for the Copper but I am not a great city placer so what do you the rest of you think? We need a dot map. Anyone good with those?



The save.View attachment JOE-07 BC-2875.CivBeyondSwordSave

Here's the roster:
Quotey
fuRRie
The Sansman played 12 turns
JesusOnEez {UP}
frankcor {on deck}

 

[Quotey]

Why a settler before a worker or garrison?

 

[JesusOnEez]

Got it. Will play tomorrow.

 

[JesusOnEez]

PRE-TURN
This warrior I'm sending north to have a look at those coastal tiles...I'll put him back afterwards!



When Archery comes in I'll be halting the Settler build in favour of a Worker then Archer with the view of whipping the Archer so the extra hammers can go into the half built Settler...that way the Settler can be escorted, whilst leaving a garrison behind (along with the fact we can start farming and chopping). I very rarely veto orders placed by other players (it's 'rude') but then again, items were in the build queue and that's 'rude' as well.

Blimey, I'm turning into GreyFox.

I've also altered Espionage to favour Saladin as at the moment it looks like he'll be our first target...I'm pretty sure his capital is coastal so it's be nice to take that reasonably early (Swords & Cats if we have Iron).



TURN 1
-

TURN 2
Archery comes in and I agree that Iron Working is the way to go, although I did ponder Animal Husbandry whilst drooling at those Pigs in the north.



I start the Worker, pausing the Settler. Once he's done (not in my turnset) I'd suggest whipping the following Archer (yup, I queued it, how rude of me) for the overflow hammers to go to the Settler. As much as I'd like to grab the southern Copper, I think it'd take so long to road to it and get it up and running that we won't really benefit...there's a lot of grassland around so I'd gamble on Iron Working bringing something within our reach. I'd use the Settler for the northern spot (in my dotmap later).

TURN 3
-

TURN 4
The Warrior has finished those coastal tiles...



...that's right. Nothing.

TURN 5
-

TURN 6
The obvious is stated.



TURN 7
-

TURN 8
-

TURN 9
-

TURN 10
Last turn and guess who shows up (from where I'm not sure...west of us I think).



He's founded Islam...not unusual for him to grab an early religion.

Our Woodsman II Warrior had the scrap of his life with a couple of Lions and is about to die.



Finally, here's my attempt at a dotmap...I cuold have gone further north as there's a lovely Gem city up there, but we'll have to pry that away from Saladin as he'll settle it first.



THE ROOSTER:
Quotey - On Deck
fuRRie
The Sansman
JesusOnEez - Just Played
frankcor - Up

 

[The Sansman]

Why a settler before a worker or garrison?

I hate using Warriors for a garrison duty, they are only good against other Warriors IMHO. I thought that with the London having so much seafood that the worker could wait a bit sorry if this was a mistake. I was thinking that since we can only have coastal cities it would be best to plant the next two ASAP before an AI causes us to go because they placed a city in a spot that we needed. I really only saw a settler as a good build option because of these reasons. I would have switched immediately to an Archer for garrison duty as soon as we got the tech.

JOE I like the cities you placed but do we want to try and get the stone close to London as well?

 

[Quotey]

IMO city 2 shoud share some seafood with London to give us a second useful city soon. I don't see London using all its seafood, at least in the near future.

1N of the suggested city S of London?

Course we could just ICS the coast, because every other tile is lackluster. Fishing villages will be decent, especially with the Collosus. Also, do we want ot make a grab for the Great Lighthouse? +2 traderoutes would support an ICS.

 

[JesusOnEez]

IMO city 2 shoud share some seafood with London to give us a second useful city soon. I don't see London using all its seafood, at least in the near future.

1N of the suggested city S of London?

1N would work for sharing fish...the only doubt I have is that I agree with Sansman that grabbing the stone would be nice and I was thinking a Settler 3W1S of London (grassland hill) would do the job of grabbing it in its BFC as well as sharing Fish with the capital. Moving the southern city 1N would prevent us doing that...

As for ICS, we're sort of going to have to do that, and given our Financial trait it should be possible. ICS/REX what's the difference?

GL or Colossus would be nice, although I think it's more likely we'll grab Colossus as the AI doesn't tend to prioritise Metal Casting...they do seem to like grabbing the GL though. Obviously going for these will prevent us spreading as fast as we'd like, and if I was playing SP, I'd skip the GL in favour of a couple of cities and go for Colossus instead, but we'll see what everyone else has to say first.

 

[Quotey]

ICS would be packing cities in as tightly as posible. All the cities on the dotmap have the full 21 squares, and I think it's unlikely we'll be working them other than the grassland and resources. I'll draw up an ICS dotmap later today.

The stone city is a good idea (3W1S).

 

[JesusOnEez]

Funnily enough, I've just got out of the habit of avoiding overlap in single player games...what I thought of as filler cities always end up being pretty good (I tend to run them with a GM which negates their maintenance costs immediately with the ol' Representation/Mercantilism trick).

In this case, I honestly though better cities could be had initially with little or no overlap, but I'll look forward to having a look at your dotmap that'll inevitably show me up.

Erm...how does ICS mean cramming cities in a tightly as possible...doesn't stand for Infinite City Spam? I always just read that as REXing over the longer term.

 

[frankcor]

Good reports all! I enjoy the discussions about MMing.

I've been out of town for a few days. I've got the save and I'll be playing soon. If I get the settler out before my turn ends, I'll pause and wait to see if get a consensus on a dot map. I'm okay with queuing things up for build but it would be really rude to build a city where it wasn't wanted.

 

[frankcor]

I started off really early by kicking myself. Instead of doublechecking the tile assignments in London, I hit Enter. Maybe I was just anticipating the chance to wittness the death of our Woodsman II Warrior way up north.


So once the entertainment was over, I took a peek inside of London.


I can appreciate the sensitivity to growing London as fast as possible, but we can't ignore research for so long. It's hard to catch up to the AI and we're starting off early to fall way behind.

By working coastline tiles, we picked up 6 beakers per turn and 6 turns off Iron Working. We'll be seeing barbarians very soon and I'd rather greet them with Axemen than with Archers. It slows growth a little and really delays the Archer, but I can whip for the Archer if needed.


Our Settler finished training and the pre-queued Archer began in London. The worker went up the hill west of London to chop a forest and build a mine. A plains hill mine will improve our ability to switch London from Commerce to Hammers when needed.


A scouting Archer from Sitting Bull arrived at our western gates:


I see he's already gotten acquainted with Montezuma. They're battling for the lead.

With the help of a chop:



I played 11 turns to get us on an even year. We can whip the Settler for 2 population but we still won't know where Iron is (and it has to be there, doesn't it?) for three more turns. So I don't see the point.

I've spread out our Warrior and new Archer so we can send our settler either north or south when the time comes.

I hope we don't regret not going for Animal Husbandry I suggest another Archer, followed by a Worker for our new city.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Good call on the research...I was so set on getting an Archer out ASAP I didn't think about simply speeding up Iron Working...

...assuming it pays off of course.

Oh, and:

THE ROOSTER:
Quotey - Up
fuRRie - On Deck
The Sansman -
JesusOnEez -
frankcor - Just Played

Grrr.

 

[Quotey]

Here's the dotmap and dotmapped save if it confuses you too much.

We might end up scrapping it, but it's for discussion. Also, it'd be cool to see if ICS (packing cities in as tightly as possible, CxxC mainly) works in a normal game.

Oh, and everyone's okay if I whipe the settler, right? We should be settling a stone spot then north, because the southern coastal spots are less desirable to the AI I hope.