Jon Shafer joins Stardock to work on elemental

[Aristos]

If most people like the game, then it's a good game, not a bad game. Why is that so hard to understand?

Intelligence does not follow the rules of Democracy.

 

[Thormodr]

I'm not so sure, neighbour... time will tell.

I believe Jon Shafer will only be working on the modding capabilities of Elemental and offering some creative input but not making any major decisions. I think in that role he'll do very well. He can gain experience, do what he does well (modding) and offer some creative ideas to help better the game. He definitely has some good ideas and talent. He just needs to be "restrained" at times I think.
Also, I think Stardock is frankly a better run company than Firaxis. They don't have crappy 2K Games looking over their shoulder.

As for him being the lead designer for a yet to be named game in the future, I am not so sure how well he'll do at that. Time will definitely tell for that, I agree.

 

[tom2050]

Intelligence does not follow the rules of Democracy.

So intelligence does not follow the rules of 'most all nations on Earth which are self identified as democratic'.

Therefore, I'll ask you, what does intelligence follow after IYHO...? the governments not self identified as democratic; Vatican City, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar and Brunei?

 

[Aristos]

So intelligence does not follow the rules of 'most all nations on Earth which are self identified as democratic'.

Therefore, I'll ask you, what does intelligence follow after IYHO...? the governments not self identified as democratic; Vatican City, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar and Brunei?

I realize you will have to think a little deeper and out of the box to understand the sentence. But you can do it! Keep trying! After all, you play Civilization... 5 ...
Moderator Action: Don't troll other members, thanks.

 

[tom2050]

I'm going with the sentence literally as you said it. Which means precisely what I said. If you think everyone is dumb, thanks for sharing that very deep insight.

Didn't mean to make you get all defensive though.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

If you have the time to read something, read Plato....The Republic...

Democracy becames Demagogy, like in Athens at the times of Cleon or Alcibiades....

Tell people that you need to ostricize someone because they cannot have whores as he does not want them in city... You will be rewarded with a clay shard with the name of your adversary... And after that ask why someone put your name instead: the answer will be " i do not know him, but someone told me that he his evil".....

 

[Pratputajao]

Yeah...

Because Firaxis and 2K games are so credible these days...

At least Stardock owned up to their debacle of a game release...

They offered refunds to any people that were dissatisfied with Elemental's disastrous launch. They also promised 2 free expansions to any people that stuck with them.

They then have proceeded to hire excellent talent to fix the game. Kael, Stern and Shafer being the most notables. They put their money where their mouth's were.

Everyone makes mistakes as we're all human. What you do to correct the mistakes is what's really important.

Stardock is doing all the right things. Firaxis, not so much.

Stardock certainly isn't perfect but they seem to be getting their act together unlike Firaxis.

Well I just hope they work on the core game itself, not just the bugs. Right now the game is just bland its really not fun to play. (nothing to do with the bugs). I would love to see Stardock really make this game shine.

 

[Aristos]

I'm going with the sentence literally as you said it. Which means precisely what I said. If you think everyone is dumb, thanks for sharing that very deep insight.

Didn't mean to make you get all defensive though.

Not defensive at all. Quite aggressive, actually. But fair enough: think along the line of the examples you surely have about a subject that has "majority approval", but are utterly stupid. Majority does not define intelligence, in many cases... I would say most.

 

[Scaramanga]

Not defensive at all. Quite aggressive, actually. But fair enough: think along the line of the examples you surely have about a subject that has "majority approval", but are utterly stupid. Majority does not define intelligence, in many cases... I would say most.

Thanks for the vague statistic. But of course why does elitism have to answer to anyone?

You must love the medieval age quote in Civ 5: "The voice of the people is the voice of God (Vox populi, vox dei)".

 

[snoochems]

My thoughts, and without reading every page on this thread, are probably shared with others, is that Stardock dropped the ball with this one.

I thought Civ 5 was such a let down, I've gone looking for another TBS game to satiate my Civ itch. That is where I first heard about Elemental. I waited for the patches before buying though, but now I hear that the man who seems to be responsible for a lot of Civ 5 failures has joined their team... I'm suddenly not so keen on purchasing.

This may not be rational/reasonable, but that doesn't matter. Fact is, a good chunk of Stardock's potential customers are going to be people that found Civ 5 lacking. Bringing the man who is said to be responsible for its downfalls on board just doesn't make much marketing sense.

 

[pi-r8]

Stardock: Resistance is futile, you will be STREAMLINED!

I know this is a joke. But actually, from what I've heard it sounds like Elemental is a game that needs some streamlining. It's got a a whole lot of features that just don't work well together.

 

[Thormodr]

Well I just hope they work on the core game itself, not just the bugs. Right now the game is just bland its really not fun to play. (nothing to do with the bugs). I would love to see Stardock really make this game shine.

Brad Wardell has admitted that Elemental along with GalCiv I and II are bland. So, he hired David Stern, a noted fantasy writer to help with the implementation of lore. That's a very positive step that will do wonders for the game.

Stardock also announced it has hired acclaimed fantasy author Dave Stern to "oversee creative storytelling and lore implementation in all future projects." Stern, who has penned various Star Trek works and novelizations of the Tomb Raider and Blair Witch Project movies, will get right to work on enriching the world of Elemental: War of Magic, which Stardock CEO Brad Wardell admits was "one of the things we felt was weak."

Specifically, Stern will "head up all further integration of the Elemental: War of Magic lore" in the game, which will see two upcoming expansions where "lore implementation will be essential."

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/04/stardock-hires-civ-v-designer-jon-shafer-and-fantasy-writer-dave/

I think the hiring of David Stern along with Kael (the creator of Fall from Heaven I and II) will ensure that their is much more flavour and character in Elemental in the future as well as GalCiv III when it comes out. (I'm sure they'll make it. )

 

[Thormodr]

My thoughts, and without reading every page on this thread, are probably shared with others, is that Stardock dropped the ball with this one.

I thought Civ 5 was such a let down, I've gone looking for another TBS game to satiate my Civ itch. That is where I first heard about Elemental. I waited for the patches before buying though, but now I hear that the man who seems to be responsible for a lot of Civ 5 failures has joined their team... I'm suddenly not so keen on purchasing.

This may not be rational/reasonable, but that doesn't matter. Fact is, a good chunk of Stardock's potential customers are going to be people that found Civ 5 lacking. Bringing the man who is said to be responsible for its downfalls on board just doesn't make much marketing sense.

Jon Shafer's role with Elemental will be quite limited. He'll be working on the modding capacity for Elemental and offering some creative imput. That is all. I don't think him being hired is a cause for concern. I think Jon Shafer can work well in a team and this current situation is ideal for him.

He supposedly will be working on a game in the future where he will be the lead designer. I will approach that game with caution as Jon Shafer hasn't proved that he can successfully design a good game yet in my opinion.

 

[blind biker]

Jon Shafer's role with Elemental will be quite limited. He'll be working on the modding capacity for Elemental and offering some creative imput. That is all. I don't think him being hired is a cause for concern. I think Jon Shafer can work well in a team and this current situation is ideal for him.

He supposedly will be working on a game in the future where he will be the lead designer. I will approach that game with caution as Jon Shafer hasn't proved that he can successfully design a good game yet in my opinion.

He hasn't proven that he has good skills to add modding capabilities to a game, either. And if he'll be adding his "creative input" to Elemental, I'll not just stay away, I'll run like hell!

 

[Thormodr]

He hasn't proven that he has good skills to add modding capabilities to a game, either. And if he'll be adding his "creative input" to Elemental, I'll not just stay away, I'll run like hell!

Your choice of course. I'd encourage you to try the demo when it is finally released for Elemental though. The game is kind of fun, even now.

However, I can't blame people for wanting to stay away considering how disastrous Civilization 5 was.

Time will tell anyway.

 

[blind biker]

I tried Elemental, and actually like it. I am having some probs with the patched version (1.1) though, so I'll be sitting on the fence for a while. Especially now that Shafer is involved.

 

[Thormodr]

I tried Elemental, and actually like it. I am having some probs with the patched version (1.1) though, so I'll be sitting on the fence for a while. Especially now that Shafer is involved.

Understandable. Sorry to hear about your problems with 1.1. It actually resolved a crashing problem I had so I was quite happy with it.

I think there will be a lot of people that will take your approach. Stardock knows this and will ensure that Jon Shafer is limited in what he does. I think after a few amazing mods are put out though, these fears will be alleviated.

I'll be waiting and seeing as well. The nice thing is that you can actually see and hear what's going on with the game on the Stardock Forums. The developers will constantly share little tidbits of what's going on. You aren't kept in the dark like with Firaxis and 2K Games. It's a refreshing change.

Jon Shafer will be able to interact with the fans and show people exactly what he's working on. This is a position that I feel he is much more comfortable with. It's more akin to what he was doing when he was just a modder. So, it is my opinion that it will work out very well.

I will also stand by my assertion that Elemental will be a far superior game to Civilization 5 in one year's time.

 

[Stilgar08]

1.11 is out for elemental as well; that might help you guys out... Personally I'm waiting for 1.2 to get the game since I heard, Elemental came out in a state comparable to ciV

But from what I've seen the game looks awesome!

I said it before and I say it again:

To me this is a direct underlining of Jon's work on cIV-BTS, which was awesome and we loved him back then!

... We'll have to see yet if he's capable of lead designing a game on his own... Some people are excellent creating structure and implement exciting stuff based on a good underlying structure (ie cIV or Elemental, which already exist before the work starts). Creating things more or less out of the air is a completely different thing (by that I mean lead designing a "new" game).

Great post from a CEO and kudos to these last lines. All the Best for Shafer, Elemental and Stardock in total...

http://forums.stardock.com/403506/page/1/#2859941

 

[Ayt]

He hasn't proven that he has good skills to add modding capabilities to a game, either. And if he'll be adding his "creative input" to Elemental, I'll not just stay away, I'll run like hell!

Even if you have no idea how much weight his "creative input" will be given?

I like that snoochems in his post above at least admits his position on being leery of Elemental because of the addition of Schafer could very well be irrational. It is odd to see people allow so much emotion about a person cloud their judgement, especially when they really have no idea what happened with the development of Civ 5 and they really have no idea the type of input he'll have on Elemental. I think it is safe to say that whatever ideas he may have will have to be approved by both Kael and Wardell, so ultimately your view of the future of that game should slant heavily towards your belief in the abilities of those two.

 

[ExplodingFist]

Did he get fired? That was my first thought, he did not do a very good job it seems to me