Julius Caesar, so foolish a leader

[Charonicus]

I'd love to know what Caesar's logic was here, why he chose to throw his game away. :S

The world as always, is divided by religion. The Taoists, Charon, Gilgamesh, Caesar and Suvaryman. The Christians, Justinian and Wang Kon. And the universally hated muslim, Saladin.
The heathens are some distance away and it took a while to march a hefty stack into Arabia and begin picking off Saladin's land. I took three of his larger cities, sending him plummeting to the bottom of the board, below even the backward Wang Kon. One of Caesar's piddly little cities culture flipped to me. I was the only one warring and figured, surely sooner or later my Taoist allies will get bored and declare on someone? Wang Kon or Saladin seemed the most likely targets, Justinian is powerful and I'm already planning on taking him out next.
My troops mill around the Arabian border, picking off Saladin's units as I wait for refuses to talk to wear off. I'm out of siege, but far enough in tech that I'm about to start building cannons to accompany my riflemen into Byzantine territory. Suddenly, across the plains, the sound of a bugle rings out. The horns of war! Has Gilgamesh decided to crush Saladin? Perhaps Suvaryman has grown tired of Wang Kon's ugly face?
Julius Caesar has declared war on you!
O_O
O_o
o_O

His attack came from two sides. First a stack to take back his culture flipped city, amply defended as it was by a lone riflemen. Re-enforcements were already heading there but he was too fast. He also attacked into New Arabia, emptying one of his nearby cities of defenders to suicide it against my heavily defended Arabian city. Naturally after that I marched two defenders down to his emptied city and razed it to the ground. I also wiped out his attacking stack as it moved from the culture flipped city to try take one of my own. I abandoned building siege to whip out some emergency riflemen for lesser defended cities whilst waiting for a chance to sue for peace.
Why Caesar? Why attack your biggest ally and the power leader? Why take my attention from Justinian and focus it toward yourself? Here I am, planning to tighten up my space race tactics and you make up my mind to now wipe you off the face of the earth? You're fielding knights and praetorians, I have cannons and riflemen! You're such an idiot! Five turns after I sue you for peace I'll have infantry! Rome will burn my friend, carpe diem? More like carpe testiculi, I'll have your balls for this insult!

I just can't understand why he did it. Here's what he gained from the war against me, brief as it was.
1 city, recently culture flipped, swamped by my culture, with no resources or wonders.
A +1 temporary mutual struggle bonus with Saladin, bringing their relations from -1 to 0 and remaining at cautious.

Here's what it cost him.
1 city with access to fur and horses. The culture gap immediately filled by my and Saladin's culture.
10 siege weapons, 10 knights and an assortment of longbowmen and pikemen.
A -2 relations hit with Gilgamesh and Suvaryman for declaring on their friend.
The loss of all trades with my empire, including two currently active resource deals, trade route income and any future tech trades.
Gold per turn for each unit out of his borders, leaving him with 0 gold and probably some disbanded units.
The loss of his primary ally who was about to sign a defensive pact with him.
The game, as now I don't care for winning, I'm gonna build an enormous stack and utterly crush him.

It's probably the stupidest war declaration I've seen yet. Declaring on someone you're pleased with, who has the highest power rating, who is your primary ally all over 1 city that is no use to you anyway! I know ultimately the decision was based purely on numbers not any actual logic, but this really was stupid. ¬¬ He could have easily wiped out Wang Kon or Saladin.


Any other examples of extremely bad judgement?

 

[Turquoiside]

One game as Saladin, Louis XIV declared war on me when I was totally undefended, His stack was first on the other side of a huge lake....and then it marched through Persia. A whole 1 axemen, an archer, and a longbowman. So, I eventually sue for peace and decide to wipe him out. I compile a stack of about 7 camel Archers, 11 catapults, and about 15Maceman, and slowly prepare to invade. Two turns before my DoW, Loius XIV declares war on me! It was sheer stupidity, he invaded with a Warrior, 2 crossbowman, two axeman, and a catapult. Idiot! I preceed to raze city after city, until I've raised PAris, Orleans, and and one north city, leaving him with three cities. I then use the AP to wipe him off and 5 other civs decide to kill him. He still refuses to give me anything worthwhile for peace, despite the fact my kill ratio was much better than his.

 

[Pir Lan Tota]

Any other examples of extremely bad judgement?

Personnaly, I think it was a risky gamble that did not pay off. The AI made the mistake of taking on your army in New Arabia, instead of moving into your mainland. If he would have done that, he could have seriously hurt you...Now however, he did the n00b mistake and attacked the wrong settlement.

Brave but stupid

 

[Emiliano]

The game, as now I don't care for winning, I'm gonna build an enormous stack and utterly crush him.

Jajajaja... so resentful

 

[djvandrake]

Any other examples of extremely bad judgement?

Oh sure, lots of em. I had a similar if not so glaringly stupid experience with J.C. However, the best example had to be the following:

I was playing Justinian and going for a cultural win. I had a mostly defensive but powerful military and was the founder of Confucianism. 5 of my best buds were also confucian on the same continent. The eternally lovely if not terribly bright Isabella doesn't like me and my backwards religion so she sends over an invasion fleet of 7 frigates and 5 galleons to show me the error of my ways. She declares on me and all of her frigates die trying to attack the one destroyer I had guarding the closest coastal city to her. (that destroyer got 3 promotions after the battle! 3!) I then proceed to kick her around just about everywhere and now the rest of the Confucian alliance doesn't like her, breaks trades and open border agreements. She ends up giving me three cities and a load of gold to stop beating her up so bad.

 

[Bluestew0]

It is an acknowledged fact that the AI performs many horrible decisions. Both diplomatic and militarily. If you guys are trouncing the AI, step up in difficulty. It won't change the frequent stupidity of AI logic but it should definately cause you some anxious moments and bring about a new level of learning to cope with added AI benefits.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I had an AI dow me and land a stack of 20 cannons on my shore.

Sounds somewhat threatening right?

...Well...only if they'd remembered to bring something OTHER than cannons exclusively . My city got its defenses wrecked, all units in it were badly damaged, and the AI could do exactly nothing other than that as I picked them off with troops from other cities with combat II-III knights (little backwards eh).

I like declaring on the AI while backwards. In an extreme example, I was running a game for G Major 40 (immortal/epic on a large map), and declared on someone with keshiks ---> this target had grenadiers. I got dogpiled by two other civs that also had cuirassers and grenadiers...but won. Wiped one out and vassaled the other two.

Unfortunately I blew that game a little later on by accidentally DoWing a DP alliance. Prior to doing that though, despite using keshiks well into the 1300's AD...I had tanks just before 1800 AD . Cities really are everything in this game. I built jails for massed EP and stole tech after tech from a small civ that was advanced.

I REALLY wish I'd noticed that DP. I'd have won easily .

 

[Charonicus]

Personnaly, I think it was a risky gamble that did not pay off. The AI made the mistake of taking on your army in New Arabia, instead of moving into your mainland. If he would have done that, he could have seriously hurt you...Now however, he did the n00b mistake and attacked the wrong settlement.

Brave but stupid

Yup. He would have fared better if the attack had come entirely from the culture flipped city. A bigger stack there might have taken a second city off me. He still woulda got trounced though. :S
Risky gamble? Annoying all your allies in one swift but feeble attack on the power leader? >_< I know he likes rolling those dice but I expected more from him.

Jajajaja... so resentful

Shrug, if you attack an ally, expect swift and painful retribution tbh.

It is an acknowledged fact that the AI performs many horrible decisions. Both diplomatic and militarily. If you guys are trouncing the AI, step up in difficulty. It won't change the frequent stupidity of AI logic but it should definately cause you some anxious moments and bring about a new level of learning to cope with added AI benefits.

I'm not quite ready to step up. It's true I'm kicking some ass this game, but I still end up on the receiving end some times. >_< A few more wins and then maybe I'll be confident enough to tackle Prince.

@ MeinTeam
Ah the siege attack. ^^ I've had that before too. I also had a panic once when Peter attacked me in one game. I'd noticed plenty of triremes around the coast of his island and I had finally got astronomy. When the declaration came I was building better boats myself to try and fend him off. I waited and... he didn't have astronomy! He couldn't actually reach me to attack. O_O

 

[Lanthar]

My last game, on a large, fractal world, I was playing as Bismark of the Germans. After being bogged down in several medieval/industrial wars, I owned the center of a long (East-West) snaky fractal continent, was ahead on military techs, but behind on radio/mass media path.

I built up my military to unleash attacks to secure a domination victory. Included in the military buildup was a good supply of ICBMs in my capital and one other city. To the East lay Mansa Musa, who dominated that section, and to the West Huana Capac, who dominated there.

I decided to attack East first. I declared on Mansa Musa, and quickly overran his vassals and made them my own. During a slight pause to get more infantry to the front for occupying cities, the screen shakes and I hear the distinct sounds of nuclear blasts going off - Mansa Musa had made a nuclear first strike!

I hurredly checked my core cities (I had not yet researched Laser or built SDI...just figured my 18 or so ICBM's would be enough of a deterrent), but nothing was touched there. Turns out that Mansa Musa had launched several tactical nukes - at his former vassal! Since Caesar was now my vassal, I launched 3 grouped ICBM's at Mansa's 3 best cities, and he capitulated immediately.

Worst use of nuclear weapons by an AI, ever. If you're gonna strike first, strike at the person that could actually obliterate you, not at their vassal.

Since nukes had already been used, I used more ICBM's to secure the capitulation of most everyone else for a domination win.

 

[6K Man]

In one of my first Civ4 games, Julius landed a force of 6 Axemen/Chariots at a border outpost of mine, and subsequently landed a couple more Axes a turn or two later.

It was a close run fight - I had mostly Archers and a couple of Axes. Finally, I managed to destroy his landing force and sent Construction-based invaders of my own after him.

The dumb part is that he had, a few turns before invading me, settled a city that gave him Iron access. His only Iron access. Fortunately for me, that was the city closest to me, and my invasion force grabbed it, despite his whipping a couple of Praetorians for defense.

If JC had waited long enough to equip his invaders with Praets instead of Axemen, I'd have been a dead duck.

 

[djvandrake]

It is an acknowledged fact that the AI performs many horrible decisions. Both diplomatic and militarily. If you guys are trouncing the AI, step up in difficulty. It won't change the frequent stupidity of AI logic but it should definately cause you some anxious moments and bring about a new level of learning to cope with added AI benefits.

Indeed. I just finished what will likely be my last Prince game. Time to try Monarch again, so I'm likely to be eating humble pie soon.

 

[Bluestew0]

Indeed. I just finished what will likely be my last Prince game. Time to try Monarch again, so I'm likely to be eating humble pie soon.

I've been getting it handed to me lately on Prince lately. Even though it isn't a big jump to Prince over Noble, for some reason I've slipped badly in my play. I don't even want to think about the size of AI armies that would come knocking in Monarch. Good luck fellow leader.

 

[Charonicus]

Heh heh. I've been kicking Julius around a bit. ^^ Took 4 of his cities and burned 2 more and now he's lower than Saladin. Still had the cheek to offer me 100 gold for steel. Yeah right. Anyway, mid war he went mental with spies, poisoning half my cities and destroying a camp. Then this popped up.
A city ruins has been destroyed by enemy infiltrators!
Wow, nice one Julius. How will I ever win without my precious city ruins?
The real irony? Those were Roman ruins. ^^
"If I can't have my rubble, no one can!"

 

[djvandrake]

A city ruins has been destroyed by enemy infiltrators!
Wow, nice one Julius. How will I ever win without my precious city ruins?
The real irony? Those were Roman ruins. ^^
"If I can't have my rubble, no one can!"

Obviously a high priority. He must have had very few espy points left.

 

[Gumbolt]

Played against JC in a previous sitting bull game. He has Egypt and Shaka as vassels on his continent. He had been busy.

He dominated that continent. Unfortunately him and shaka dumped 2 large stacks on a small island off my continent which I had 4 cities on. Even with infantry against cavalry and cannons I was over powered. I hadnt predicted a naval assault.

Before i knew it I was swamped with shaka and JC destroyers. I was running out of sea units by the end of it. I lost 1 or 2 cities after Shaka landed. Although i fought off one of the stacks from JC. I think my earlier privateer ventures had made shaka and JC to build a few more naval ships.

Wasnt too worried as I was nearing a space victory anyway. I was impressed that Rome had got so strong. My main continent was well defended.

 

[Dhaulagiri]

Julius is about as trustworthy as Monty in my book. I always keep an eye on that one.

 

[Bushface]

I was busy destroying Brennus, to the east of my lands, when Julius accepted him as a vassal and so was forced to declare war on me - a bad decision because Julius was my western neighbour, with no frontier with Brennus, and was well behind me in everything. A few turns later, and goodbye to the pair of them.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Julius is about as trustworthy as Monty in my book. I always keep an eye on that one.

Good logic. He's barely more peaceful and the RNG interaction with peace weight can give him a max warmonger approach. He spams nearly as many units too.

I view him as more dangerous actually, since he tends to tech better and attacking prats early is no fun at all, even if the AI sucks with them they're still more annoying in cities than swords, and by a lot.

 

[Joshua368]

I don't trust him one bit. Friggin' jerk and his friggin' praetorians. I wasn't even bordering you dangit!

Augustus Caesar's a nice guy though. Friendly and peaceful and likes researching all the way to Democracy and Physics while ignoring Rifling and Chemistry so my rifles and cannons could have their way with him.

 

[vhhawk]

I've got a Napoleon story for you. I just finished (lost) a huge ring game where I occupied a corner landmass. The early game surprised me with the friendly cooperation all around - open borders and trade agreements with almost everyone. I worked on settling out my landmass and getting control of the isthmus on either side, while building up tech and not so much military. I founded Confucianism, and surprisingly Isabella, one of my neighbors, immediately adopts it as it spreads to her capital. My other neighbor is Roosevelt and for a long time I'm trying to decide which one is going down first once I get to musketmen. Well, out of the blue, literally, here comes Napoleon sailing in. He's annoyed with me at the start, and the second time I meet him he declares war on me and sinks my galley loaded with settler units. Bastard! I'm thinking to myself, where in the world is Napoleon headquartered? Eventually after some map trading I find that he is three landmasses away! Isabella and Montezuma sit between us.

I just shook my head at this and laughed it off and meanwhile decided that my best expansion option was through Isabella's land. So I build up the military, get the supply chain in swing, and take the nearest Spanish city pretty easily, as it lies at her end of the isthmus. No problem. But then the funnel opens and my forces spread out. I take two more of Isabella's cities, but suddenly find myself in a protracted guerrilla war with small stacks that just keep nickel and diming me. They're Napoleon's units! The bastard marched his forces through Aztec lands, through Isabella's lands, and he's now fighting on her side. I can't believe it. Well, I eventually wear them both down with my supply chain and slight tech advantage, and about halfway across Spanish territory I sue for peace with the French. Napoleon accepts. The last few Spanish cities were easy after that. I still can't believe how much production he put into those forces that he marched so far to battle. He did have some sea units but I finally put those down with my caravels.

With Isabella's landmass under control I decided to use Montezuma as a strategic buffer between me and the French, and turned my war machine towards Roosevelt. That one was over pretty fast, but by this time I'd realized what a hopeless task it would be to earn a domination victory. Besides which, Hatshepsut (Roosevelt's other neighbor), was ahead of me in tech when my forces reached her border. It seems that my little corner of the world was the most backwards part of it. The Incas eventually won the space race ... at the same time I built my first nuke (2004) and launched it at Paris. He was the only one of the cultures who hadn't yet built SDI, and he never got a chance to. I saturated his cities, reducing them all to hamlets surrounded by glowing golden dust. Never knew I was such a bloodthirsty warbird but he really pissed me off.