Just can't catch up

[kadiablo]

Hi everyone, I've been playing Civ 4 last week, just downloaded it, I played before but never took it on MP, never became a geek on.
And when I start a game on Prince difficult (Civ 4 no expansions), I just can't catch the guys up on techs nor territory. And I don't know how they do. On this last game, I was playing against my neighbor Mansa Munsa, and he was at least 10 techs ahead of me and had 4 more cities too. My question is, is this guy a sorcerer or what am I doing wrong? I just start my civ building barracks, pick archery first tech (I oftenly play with the greeks - any civ to recommend?), after the barracks I make one archer, after that a settler, one archer more, 1 turn for another archer, the city grows up to 4 citizens then I change to settler, and well, after that I just play. Should I specialize someone on the capital? HOW DOES MANSA F*CKING MUSA TO GET SO AHEAD OF ME, DOES HE . .. .. .. . SETTLERS AND PEE SCIENCE? WTH I can't imagine playing on the hardest level, I probably will be sending my longbowmen to fight his mazingers-Z high-tech-ultraviolence-japanized-robots

I feel like a bolivian in the middle of Tokyo playing this game.

Any tips to grow kinda close to the others? Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[Defiant47]

Well, first of all, sweet Jesus, when are you ever going to build a worker??? A worker is pivotal to early game success, and building a worker first is almost always the best way to go, even if your capital stays at 1 (I usually build 2 or so workers, but whatever). Barracks is a low priority early on unless you'll soon be doing some rushes (rush - building lots of good military, preferably axemen through copper and bronze working, early on and taking over a neighbour).

Second of all, AIs usually get bonuses at higher levels. At the highest levels, their technology costs are much lower than yours, so it's to be expected that they'll just soar down the technology tree and leave you behind (this is where excellent strategy and smart technology researching and trading can help you keep up). Unfortunately, programming a really smart AI is very hard, so the best way to make the game more difficult is to "stack the deck" for the AI.

Thirdly, are you playing Vanilla (no expansions), Warlords, or Beyond the Sword? In Vanilla and Warlords, the AIs get free settlers from the get-go at higher levels (I think on Deity they get 2), but I'm pretty sure they don't get any in BTS (since the AI is significantly improved, it doesn't need as many bonuses).

Lastly, read various strategy articles... there may be some components of your strategies that are inefficient or sub-optimal (like your not building a worker first thing).

 

[kadiablo]

thanks a lot man, workers and workers, just as in starcraft

they get bonuses! biatches! now I get it!

I'm playing Vanilla, does BTS require a better computer? I can't wait to play it.

Have you won a game on Deity? You're sick if you have.

thanks again for the tips dude, later

 

[Defiant47]

thanks a lot man, workers and workers, just as in starcraft

Yep, working improved tiles makes a ton of difference! My general advice for starting builds (although there's plenty of controversy and different strategies over this): worker first (worker again if you have a LOT of resource tiles, and 1 or 2 with great food), then warrior (organize your tiles and growth such that you grow to size 2 or 3 before you finish the warrior, 2 if you have only two really good food+hammer resources, 3 if you have 3 or more; alternatively build another warrior), then settler. This is, of course, not taking into account capital locations where there's plenty of seafood, in which case if you have fishing you should prioritize hammers to the maximum (even if your capital stays at 1) to get that workboat out ASAP, and then after that you can start working that tile and such.

This way you're working improved tiles and you're maximizing your settler production rate (since it's a long time to stay without growth, it's best to make it come out as fast as you can).

Other strategies include bronze working and chopping forests to facilitate faster settler construction; read around the strategy articles.

I'm playing Vanilla, does BTS require a better computer? I can't wait to play it.

As far as I know, it shouldn't require a better computer. It's pretty much the same game, but with a whole bunch of new features and other things added. You also don't need Warlords (unless you really want the Warlords scenarios, but you can mostly do without them), so you can go on right ahead and pick up Beyond the Sword.

Have you won a game on Deity? You're sick if you have.

Heh, I haven't, I'm just a meagre Monarch player that recently moved up to Emperor ... there are some people around these boards that have done it (also keep in mind that winning Deity on a Duel map with one opponent is far easier than winning Deity on a standard map with 7 opponents).

thanks again for the tips dude, later

No problem, and welcome to the forums!

 

[Bleys]

First of all, Mansa is indeed a sorcerer. Almost every time I have played against him, his opening city is GODDLY! Honestly, I make it a priority to smack him ASAP if hes anywhere near me.

I highly suggest one of the many guides. Suistels is excellent, totally turned my style around. Also, no matter what level you play (and you should start on Cheiften or Warlord-level, not Prince, heh), a Worker should be your very very first build. In fact, I suggest putting Barracks off for a LONG LONG time. Worker, a couple units, then a settler. Have that new city build a defensive unit, then a worker, and get that land worked!

Also, there are a couple "features" to this game that players should learn to use. Slavery and Chopping forests. For this reason, Bronze Working (which opens up both) should be one of the very first techs you research.

 

[Napalm102]

Also, no matter what level you play (and you should start on Cheiften or Warlord-level, not Prince, heh), a Worker should be your very very first build.

I would say one exception would be if you capital has sea food nearby, especially if it is fish, then try to get a fishing boat out ASAP. If your civ starts with fishing then start building straight away, if not build warrior for a bit and let your capital grow while you research fishing. Then manually assighn citizens to work the most productive tiles to get those boats out faster, but don't forget to put them back to working food tiles after the boat(s) are done.

Also remember that workers and settlers are build with food AND hammers, so having an improved food tile will speed up their construction as well.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

@ kadiablo:

Unless you're playing with Raging Barbarians or at Emperor⁺ (or a multiplayer game), beelining Archery is typically a less-than-optimal way to begin.

As has been mentioned, start a Worker first and tech towards the Worker techs (Mining, Bronze Working, Agriculture and Animal Husbandry, for example) necessary to improve the land around your capital first.

In most games, unless you have a Unique Unit or Building that requires Archery or have land devoid of strategic resources (like Horses, Copper and Iron), you can typically skip Archery altogether and backfill it later!


[hijack]

I would say one exception would be if you capital has sea food nearby, especially if it is fish, then try to get a fishing boat out ASAP. If your civ starts with fishing then start building straight away, if not build warrior for a bit and let your capital grow while you research fishing. Then manually assighn citizens to work the most productive tiles to get those boats out faster, but don't forget to put them back to working food tiles after the boat(s) are done.

I think the fishing example is way overrated:

If you don't start with a 3 tile like a Plains Hill Forest at least in the BFC but especially in the inner-ring, starting a Work Boat first only yields better results in the category.

If you don't start with Fishing but do start with Mining, everything comes out faster if you build a Worker first and chop the Work Boat.

If you start with multiple land-based food resources (esp. if you already have the tech for them), you're better off starting with a Worker and improving those before/while building the Work Boat.


Consider this (Epic speed):

• A Worker costs 90 & . This means the first improvement costs 90 'production'. After the 2nd improvement, each only costed 45 'production'. After the 3rd improvement, each only costed 30 'production'. Etc ...
  
• A Worker's improvements cost at least 6 turns to complete.
  
  
  
• A Work Boat costs 45 . This means the first (and only) improvement costs 45 'production', which never decreases.
  
• A Work Boat's Fishing Boats cost only as many turns as it takes it to get to the resource (typically no more than 1).

My conclusions:

• If you intend to expand early and rapidly from a tiny city (especially a pop 2 undefended city), Work Boat first is the way to go.
  
• If you intend to chop/whip your first Warrior and/or Settler, Worker first and chop the Work Boat is the way to go.
  
• If you intend to expand 'normally' from a small city (especially pop 4 or 5 defended), Worker first is the way to go.

[/hijack]


-- my 2

 

[Bleys]

I would say one exception would be if you capital has sea food nearby, especially if it is fish, then try to get a fishing boat out ASAP. If your civ starts with fishing then start building straight away, if not build warrior for a bit and let your capital grow while you research fishing. Then manually assighn citizens to work the most productive tiles to get those boats out faster, but don't forget to put them back to working food tiles after the boat(s) are done.

Also remember that workers and settlers are build with food AND hammers, so having an improved food tile will speed up their construction as well.

Sort of Nap, I agree workboat first if you have fishing, and I disagree with starting a warrior researching fishing. I was going to throw some of that in, but decided that there is such a thing as "information overload". I would hate for him to start on a coast without Fishing and skip the worker. Trust me, its SOOOOOO easy to get the messages and advice from these boards all mixed up.

I love you guys though. This is such a cool board. So many people are so generous with their experience and advice. I have made it my home page.

And OTAK, the big advantage to making a workboat is you get to grow a pop while its coming out. Thats pretty big.

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

Why are you playing on Prince if you just started? Civ is an incredibly complicated game and takes awhile to figure out. You're starting out pretty high, arn't you?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I was going to throw some of that in, but decided that there is such a thing as "information overload".

I'm always guilty of that.

And OTAK, the big advantage to making a workboat is you get to grow a pop while its coming out. Thats pretty big.

Once I get home tonight, I'll dig up some of my old notes and show how that isn't as big as people would have you believe it is.

 

[Bleys]

Once I get home tonight, I'll dig up some of my old notes and show how that isn't as big as people would have you believe it is.

I would be interested in that data. A quick 2nd pop opens up all kinds of doors. A 2nd tile worked, a slave to whip, etc. While I will agree its better in some situations than others, and may actually be "less than correct" in a fewI still think that 2nd pop is worth the trouble to go workboat first.

 

[futurehermit]

better to go hard on hammers to get the workboat out asap and then grow to size 2+ working the improved seafood tile.

 

[Fred Zeppelin]

better to go hard on hammers to get the workboat out asap and then grow to size 2+ working the improved seafood tile.

Good advice.