[BTS] just curious, if you could start game with any tech in tree (just one) which would you pick?

[Nick723]

Feudalism could be an interesting choice, especially if spiritual and / or protective.

Faster workers, a 6 strength attacker and extra XP. Plus the ability to create vassals early.

 

[Fippy]

Wouldn't Rifling be better anyways..
they cost 110 which imo is all that matters, being a bit cheaper.

 

[SittinDown]

The early game is so crucial, and snowball is a huge factor, so Bureaucracy is probably the best gift you can get.

Bureau is like getting financial, imperialistic, and expansive all at once, on top of whatever your leader has, and is accentuated by it. kind of like Terrace with HC is like lite creative.

i do feel like there's interesting conversation to be had on whether the equation changes with different map sizes or game speeds though, even if we have random leaders and random map scripts.
ex: on a tiny map, maybe just construction is all you want. rapid rush with siege and chariots.
also - MP and SP are pretty different. a smart human can choke the com in a way that a human opponent could probably counter.

I did try some quick 50-turn experiments yesterday with Bureau, State Property, Steam Power, and Bio. State Property felt pretty weak compared to Bureau or Steam in the first 50 turns. I didn't do Artillery or Rifling yet, but you can't afford to build those units before turn 50. and by T-50 the Bureau advantage is very substantial. much further down the tech tree, expansion is easy. a PH mine is actually a decent tile for settlers / workers.

 

[SittinDown]

i think the ERA bonus might be a real problem. I tried Artillery, and I built just 1 anti-tank, and 1 artillery, and that was only able to kill 1 unit per turn, and without whipping, Ragnar on Emperor was able to build a new archer every turn. and my advanced units got surprisingly worn down, though I never lost a fight. clearly, you need to back up this strat with a bunch more trash units to clean-up.

Faster workers, a 6 strength attacker and extra XP. Plus the ability to create vassals early

good point - with Spiritual, you could use serfdom early, since it'd be easier with few cities. longbow is not a good attacker, but you can choke early AI's very effectively. not sure the early vassals would help a ton, what do you envision there?

 

[ArchGhost]

I would say Communism just because it's more or less how I wish how freely expanding could be in Civ4 at all times, not just later.

Biology would be the pick for me then, tile improvements are one of the most coveted things I pursue in this game and Civ6, having 3f1h plains and the equivalent of dry rice anywhere you want is badass and isn't throttled by hammer costs like advanced war techs.

CS is pretty obviously overpowered, decent tech boost immediately for first few techs, huge production boost immediately for settlers/workers, then a little later once pottery is in massive tech boost and BW is in huge pump for a wonder or three. Bureau gets weaker the more you expand and add more trade routes/specialists/commerce tiles, so having it from T1 is an insane amount of value.

Civac bringing up that multiplayer example made me mull over how it would be if all players had the same or different tech picks.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

For "freely expanding" would currency be stronger than communism? It also enables "produce wealth".

 

[FourPlanetsInPisces]

I know this isn't the right answer and that it won't appeal to the warmongers (and somebody made the point that the relative value of a technology will depend on the map), but I think it'd be cute to have Railroad.

Your workers can build a network that your units can zip about on, so you'd be able to (e.g.):

• improve your terrain very quickly (it'd be like having Indian Fast Workers on amphetamines); and
• get near-instant results with the units you build (i.e. - you could found a new city, or spread your religion, within a turn or two of the settler/missionary being built).

And you'd have machine guns, so you wouldn't have to worry about getting attacked. (Or, put another way: When Monty attacks you, his army would get torn to pieces while you just sit back and gain experience points).

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Do you need coal for railroads?

 

[a pen-dragon]

Do you need coal for railroads?

Yes, Coal or Oil.

 

[MilesBeyond]

could you build the internet fast enough for it to be worth it?

IIRC the Internet requires both Computers and Fibre Optics, so it's out of the picture either way.

I agree with others that I think, considering all metrics, Civil Service is the best bet here. Rifling etc would be strong, but I think just with the way the combat mechanics work they could still be easily overwhelmed because you wouldn't have the infrastructure to mass them.

Did some number crunching; a Rifleman attacking an unprompted Archer in a hilltop city has, if I'm correct, a roughly 95% chance of victory, but is likely to lose up to a third of it's HP as well. That's not super sustainable, and the odds are going to be a little close if there's a second Archer in there - and a third Archer means trouble. So you're definitely going to need some fodder in there as well.

Bureaucracy might be the biggest boost. Real ones will remember the Oracle -> CS slingshot, this is a million times better.

That being said, I think the best choice is picking Divine Right to flex on the AI.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

IIRC the Internet requires both Computers and Fibre Optics,

No. Only requires computers.

There are stages of the game where production is not valuable. Just set a low-food backwater city to work on it for around 75 turns or something. Imagine something like 1 pig, 3 grassland-hills, 1 plains-hill.

 

[pmarc]

Bureaucracy is obviously the best here, but Internet would be funny, so let's check the best case scenario for it.

Deity standard Pangaea map. It takes a long time to find a suitable start that also has copper nearby, so since I'm shamelessly giving myself Computers on turn 1, let's add a copper in the capital as well.

No need for research beyond the basic worker techs, so some early REXing would be ideal here. Therefore Joao of Portugal is the leader.

I rolled a location with corn, furs and plenty of hills. Luckily also, it was a peninsula southeast of the Pangaea with some room to expand. On turn 75 I have 8 cities with only +2 gpt at 0%. I was able to trade AH for Pottery with Hannibal and then self-tech Writing, then turned off the slider. Got the Internet with 21(!) techs on turn 110.

Spoiler :

 

[Nick723]

I think one angle that is worth thinking about is the possibility to get a second advanced tech through the oracle.

Sticking with the Computers example, you could then Oracle Robotics, beeline rifling (whilst the internet backfills everything else) and then attack with Mech Inf in the Renaissance.