JZ Tech Tree [Deleted]

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So I'm not unfamiliar with mods, but most of what I'll be saying is coming from a college student and gamer, NOT a dev or modder. As such, if I say something impossible or stupidly complicated, disregard it. :)

As for this mod, I can see it being a wonderful thing that changes a lot. Specifically, I hope to see some pre-ancient tech that's slow and methodical. Even with time advancing at a quick pace, you could add some resources to the maps and have tech slower to form tens of thousands of years before 4000BC. This could be a good point to expand, since the IDEA of border expansion via cities is rather rudimentary. I was thinking barbaric resources such as berries and fertile soul (as well as mining resources that physically poke from the ground and allow rudimentory mining before tech can advance it.) Barbaric units and primitive diplomacy could be really nice to see in action.

Now I'm not sure if coding allows, but is it possible to make a resource that provides a simple yield output (like mining giving production), that has an unknown random element that further tech could uncover it as genuinely useful or pointless? For instance, barbarians finding shiny white metal might only be able to build with it, but as modern technology grows, they learn it is actually aluminum! I never liked the idea of "researching nukes gives the magical ability to see shiny green uranium". Why can't there be 2 types of radioactive elements in the ground...useful uranium and uselessly, poisionous Polonium or Francium? That way when you're hunting for valuable resources early-game and come upon mystery painful (radioactive) rocks in the barbaric era, it's a random moment where you could be wasting time unknowingly gathering Polonium in an attempt to steal Uranium pre-Nuclear tech. Could work for all of the post-ancient resources. Gold!? Nope, it's useless Pyrite. Oil? Not likely! It's clearly tar. It would add a massive level of strategy. Risk and reward since Civ6 added the ability to permanently remove a resource. It could even be a diluted color until you research it. Simple grey rock (color-blinding you since you're omniscient and SHOULDN'T know what Uranium looks like) until tech reveals it to be useful or useless.

I'll be thinking up other ideas, but I hope this kinda stuff is possible! :)
 
Jacob Applehoof said:
So I'm not unfamiliar with mods, but most of what I'll be saying is coming from a college student and gamer, NOT a dev or modder. As such, if I say something impossible or stupidly complicated, disregard it. :)

As for this mod, I can see it being a wonderful thing that changes a lot. Specifically, I hope to see some pre-ancient tech that's slow and methodical. Even with time advancing at a quick pace, you could add some resources to the maps and have tech slower to form tens of thousands of years before 4000BC. This could be a good point to expand, since the IDEA of border expansion via cities is rather rudimentary. I was thinking barbaric resources such as berries and fertile soul (as well as mining resources that physically poke from the ground and allow rudimentory mining before tech can advance it.) Barbaric units and primitive diplomacy could be really nice to see in action.

Now I'm not sure if coding allows, but is it possible to make a resource that provides a simple yield output (like mining giving production), that has an unknown random element that further tech could uncover it as genuinely useful or pointless? For instance, barbarians finding shiny white metal might only be able to build with it, but as modern technology grows, they learn it is actually aluminum! I never liked the idea of "researching nukes gives the magical ability to see shiny green uranium". Why can't there be 2 types of radioactive elements in the ground...useful uranium and uselessly, poisionous Polonium or Francium? That way when you're hunting for valuable resources early-game and come upon mystery painful (radioactive) rocks in the barbaric era, it's a random moment where you could be wasting time unknowingly gathering Polonium in an attempt to steal Uranium pre-Nuclear tech. Could work for all of the post-ancient resources. Gold!? Nope, it's useless Pyrite. Oil? Not likely! It's clearly tar. It would add a massive level of strategy. Risk and reward since Civ6 added the ability to permanently remove a resource. It could even be a diluted color until you research it. Simple grey rock (color-blinding you since you're omniscient and SHOULDN'T know what Uranium looks like) until tech reveals it to be useful or useless.

I'll be thinking up other ideas, but I hope this kinda stuff is possible! :)
Click to expand...


I see what you're saying about pre-ancient era tech, but with this mod the beginning of the game already takes much more time than it did in Vanilla. Consider that there are eight starting techs with no prereqs or boosts, meaning eight realllllly basic technologies that need to be researched before workers can accomplish even basic tasks. I worry that adding even more hurdles before that would make the early game tedious, which is not my intention. In terms of pacing, the mod in its current form puts a player into the Classical era some time around turn 90, which is just fine with me.

The rest of what you're suggesting is well beyond my meager abilities as a coder :) I'm limited to taking things already in the base game and copying/modifying them to suit my own purposes. But perhaps as more people join up with the project it will become possible to tackle some of these more ambitious projects.
 
anansethespider said:
I see what you're saying about pre-ancient era tech, but with this mod the beginning of the game already takes much more time than it did in Vanilla. Consider that there are eight starting techs with no prereqs or boosts, meaning eight realllllly basic technologies that need to be researched before workers can accomplish even basic tasks. I worry that adding even more hurdles before that would make the early game tedious, which is not my intention. In terms of pacing, the mod in its current form puts a player into the Classical era some time around turn 90, which is just fine with me.

The rest of what you're suggesting is well beyond my meager abilities as a coder :) I'm limited to taking things already in the base game and copying/modifying them to suit my own purposes. But perhaps as more people join up with the project it will become possible to tackle some of these more ambitious projects.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see more people contribute to the mod. It seems like a large idea and I hope it can be!
 
There are too few units and 2 era gaps in civ 6, like knight -> tank, catapult->bombard, horseman->cavalry etc, so i filled the eras and changed light cavalry to ranged cavalry

swbvo0.png
 
BenchBreaker said:
There are too few units and 2 era gaps in civ 6, like knight -> tank, catapult->bombard, horseman->cavalry etc, so i filled the eras and changed light cavalry to ranged cavalry

swbvo0.png
Click to expand...

I'm totally with you, and have already put a few of these in the game. It makes a lot of sense to update the existing trees with more elements so there aren't such gigantic jumps. Like Pikeman to AT Crew lol, seems like a bit of a stretch, right?

One thing to mention is that you've got the unit classes mixed up a little bit. There's actually no ranged cavalry class in the base game at all - there's a light cav, and a heavy cav. So with the light cav the progression in the game right now is something silly like Horseman-Cavalry-Helicopter , while for Heavy its Heavy Chariot, Knight, Tank. Saka Horse Archer is the only "ranged cavalry" class in the game, and it's just coded as a ranged class same as archer.

This is only important in terms of upgrades. You don't want a unit switching trees when it upgrades or it might break the code or something.
 
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anansethespider said:
I'm totally with you, and have already put a few of these in the game. It makes a lot of sense to update the existing trees with more elements so there aren't such gigantic jumps. Like Pikeman to AT Crew lol, seems like a bit of a stretch, right?

One thing to mention is that you've got the unit classes mixed up a little bit. There's actually no ranged cavalry class in the base game at all - there's a light cav, and a heavy cav. So with the light cav the progression in the game right now is something silly like Horseman-Cavalry-Helicopter , while for Heavy its Heavy Chariot, Knight, Tank. Saka Horse Archer is the only "ranged cavalry" class in the game, and it's just coded as a ranged class same as archer.

This is only important in terms of upgrades. You don't want a unit switching trees when it upgrades or it might break the code or something.
Click to expand...

There is also the Egyptian ranged chariot. but yeah I just felt that distinguishing between light and heavy cavalry is kind of pointless and confusing, rather having separate melee and ranged lines makes more sense, make ranged cav have only 1 range all the way down the line to distinguish it from archers. As for upgrades i think the ranged cav can keep the light cav upgrades to further distinguish them from archer line, even though the upgrades will make less sense. but they are still useful light more movement anti siege etc
 
The problem with that is that abilities like "+damage to siege weapons" effects combat strength, not ranged combat strength. So you'd have an upgrade line that gave melee upgrades to ranged units. There's a lot of complication is what I'm saying.

But forget about the hard parts for a minute, I don't want to sound negative. I absolutely agree that there should be a line of units that has high movement and 1 range for a range attack throughout the game, and I like a bunch of the units you made up for it. I'm still not sure what we're going to do about promotions - it might involve a rewrite of large parts of the promotion system - but in the meantime, here's what I think we should do. We should design and code a second line of ranged units like you say, and make sure there is no cross-upgrading with light or heavy cavalry line. And I think for right now we just give that line the same promotion tree as archers (ranged tree).
 
The other thing that I want to do is add a few more lines to the game. For instance, I'm adding a line of Light Cav and a line of Melee that run parallel to the ones already in the game. Here's the first instances of those unit:

Skirmisher - Light Cav - available at Early Warfare (upper part of the tree, vs. lower for Horseback Riding); 30 strength, 4 moves, +10 strength vs ranged attacks. Does NOT require horses, but DOES require encampment; high cost and maintenance.

Soldier - Melee - available at Early Warfare; 30 strength, 2 moves, adjacency bonus to other Soldiers. Does NOT require horses, but DOES require encampment; high cost and maintenance.

The idea behind these two would be that if you take a different tech route and go for writing, mathematics, etc first, you're not just completely hozed by someone who went straight for the powerful early game military techs like Horseback Riding and Iron Working. Those people still have an advantage over you, yes - their units have higher strength, lower maintenance, and do not require encampment districts to produce, so they're gonna have more of them than you. But now you can produce a few of your own competitive units to hold off the attack, albeit at a high price in terms of gold. It just gives an additional option for early combat - now you can also be a rich civ that employs an expensive professional army.
 
anansethespider updated JZ Tech Tree with a new update entry:

Expanded Tech Tree version 0.04 - now with artdefs for units!

This update adds units and buildings through the Renaissance era. It also adds artdefs for the new units - you simply have to move the units.artdef file from the mod into your Civ VI base/artdefs folder, where it will OVERWRITE the old units.artdefs file. For this reason I recommend you back up your old units.artdef file before installing the mod!
Click to expand...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 
well I have tested this overwhelming mod and loved the units .. but A bit disappointing that the icon of the new units are not describing them well, and the new builder ability that builds windmill is a good idea but it doesn't show nothing on the screen :/ just Describes what does it build... all icons of new units buildings and tech are misleading..any way good work..thank u!
 
Golan v said:
well I have tested this overwhelming mod and loved the units .. but A bit disappointing that the icon of the new units are not describing them well, and the new builder ability that builds windmill is a good idea but it doesn't show nothing on the screen :/ just Describes what does it build... all icons of new units buildings and tech are misleading..any way good work..thank u!
Click to expand...

Thanks for testing. Icons have proven tricky so far, but give it time and it will happen :)
 
There seems to be a bug where Greece has an Ironclad in the medieval Era.
Sorry for the word document, but I don't know another way
 

Attachments

theres a great admiral who gives an ironclad, so if they were building a bunch of harbors thats a possibility :) I'll look into it but I don't think my mod should cause that.
 
great work man! tested your last update... looks cooler! waiting for an icon for the new tile worker :crazyeye:
 
this mod is well thought out but after using it in a couple games i noticed that i make it to the medieval era in the civic tree yet i'm either in the ancient or the classical era in the tech tree. I would recommend adding a civic tree re-hall as well so your civic's don't end up a few eras ahead of your technologies
 
thoma kirby said:
this mod is well thought out but after using it in a couple games i noticed that i make it to the medieval era in the civic tree yet i'm either in the ancient or the classical era in the tech tree. I would recommend adding a civic tree re-hall as well so your civic's don't end up a few eras ahead of your technologies
Click to expand...


Thanks :) It is definitely in the cards for the future, just hasn't happened yet. There's so much to do.... but I promise it will be done at some point haha. If you'd like to help brainstorm ideas, this is the place!
 
I like having more buildings and units but there's just way too many tech's. Really slows down game play and, as mentioned, creates a huge gap between tech's and civics. It also allows for major "B-ling".

Solution: Less tech's by combining those that have similar purposes in to one tech. If all it does it allow construction of one building or troop.. it should be combined with something else.

I'm going to launch a game so I can reply with some specifics.
 
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