Keeping a Spotless Reputation by spy nuking???

[IMBC2]

Good morning!

I have continued my game involving a sabotaged space launch over Thanksgiving to mainly try out a few of the tips I have read from this board:

1) Starlifter's Power Democracy
2) Teaming up multiple engineers for 1-turn irrigation and transformation (by noticing how engineer "charges" work)
3) The emissary's ploy

First of all, hats off to Starlifter & Gastrifitis for their awesome strategies!!! Looks like I had been missing out on a lot even on my "successful" unsuccessful space launch! I am now having an urge to start another game from scratch and see if I can come close to magic_gorter's 1 AD launch

However, I couldn't test out the emissary's ploy since my Senate had already forced me into many peace treaties and cease-fires. Also, since my power was Supreme, I found it very difficult to "goad" the AI into war with me as a Democracy.

Case in point: I currently have a Cease-Fire with the Russians, whose only city is Moscow. My reputation is Spotless. I have an Archer and a Spy in the same square right next to Moscow. In my nearby town of Pittsburgh, I have a couple of Stealth Fighters fortified and an Armor tank. I saved my game at this particular point and did the following experiments:

1) If I attack Moscow with a Stealth Fighter with Hawk Party approval, then my reputation takes a hit from Spotless to Excellent.

2) If I unsuccessfully tried to "goad" the Russians into war (the Russians immediately offer me a peace treaty, and the Senate forces me to accept), then overthrow my Democracy in frustration, then proceed to attack Moscow anyway in Anarchy, then my reputation takes a plunge from Spotless to Honorable. (Question: Can this be regarded as the human player's version of a "sneak attack"?)

3) However, I found out that if I declare a Revolution and overthrow my current Democracy (I have the Statue of Liberty to change back immediately during the next turn), then I would have the option to "Demand Tribute". In this case, despite my having over 140 cities to their one, the Russians declared war with me immediately once I demanded tribute "for my patience". If I wipe them out then, I get no reputation hit.

4) This time I decided to experiment with the spy next to Moscow. I decided to plant a nuclear device. I got the warning that this could cause a major international incident if I'm caught. I decided to continue anyway, then I heard the nuclear warning sound, the explosion (which also wiped out my archer ) then got the message "Our spy was caught red-handed moments before the blast... causing a world-wide incident... all countries declare War on the Americans [sic]." I then fit F3 only to find that despite all that, my reputation remained Spotless!!! So I decided to Ctrl-N to end my turn immediately, hit F3 as soon as all my cities were processed next turn, but my reputation is still Spotless!

Could the behavior of my Reputation score in experiment #4 be attributed to: a) the being caught "red-handed" message, b) the fact that the Russians merely had a Cease-Fire (not Peace) with me at the time c) the sacrifice of my own unit (the Archer), d) a freak accident (the computer "forgot" to lower my reputation), or perhaps e) buggy programming?

I was always certain that planting a nuclear device would give me a HUGE reputation hit.

 

[Magic_gorter]

Welcome back IMBC2.

Interesting test. I don't have the answer to youre questions.

Why are you trying to stay in democracy?
You also could change for a few turns to fundy and then change back.

And why do you want to try to keep a spotless reputation? In my 1 Ad lauchgame (which was easiest level) I changed government and attacked a few civ's and destroyed them (except the civ who had to conquer my capital). After the launch I was only interested in building as many cities as possible to get a huge score.

 

[IMBC2]

I know that a few people, like starlifter, like to play that way as a voluntary challenge.

Besides, I have heard that having a Spotless reputation could affect how (much) the Senate in a Democracy intervenes in foreign affairs. I have read that the Senate tends to overrule more if the reputation is very bad.

As far as spying goes, I've tried these following experiments from that same point in time:

1) If my spy gets caught trying to plant a nuclear device before completing her mission, then my reputation doesn't change.

2) If my spy commits any type of sabotage (poison water suppy, steal tech, or industrial sabotage) and causes a "minor" international incident, my reputation drops from Spotless to Honorable. Plus, a "scandal in the Senate" (collapse of government) always occurs with these "minor" international incidents.

Now I'm beginning to wonder if my reputation staying Spotless despite being "caught red-handed" with nukes and causing a MAJOR international incident had something to do with my having the Eiffel Tower wonder and the fact that my reputation had been Spotless for some 350 turns already...

 

[Stegyre]

Now I'm beginning to wonder if my reputation staying Spotless despite being "caught red-handed" with nukes and causing a MAJOR international incident had something to do with my having the Eiffel Tower wonder and the fact that my reputation had been Spotless for some 350 turns already...

Should be easy to test: can't you activate the cheat menu and eliminate the Tower, and then try again? (If you can't remove the wonder itself, from the cheat menu, at least you can eliminate the city in which it stands, destroying the wonder that way.

You can also test whether the cease-fire (rather than peace treaty) had an effect: make peace and then use the spy.

Looks interesting. Please keep us posted.

 

[rysingsun]

i've used the spy-nuke ploy many times to start wars without a rep hit. i don't recall ever getting a rep hit doing it. is it a bug? oh i dunno, maybe a programming oversight. but it certainly is consistent.

 

[ElephantU]

Sounds more like an error in programming - they may not have believed someone would try it...

 

[TheLoneMan]

Keep us posted!

Sounds interesting...

 

[IMBC2]

I can somewhat see why a scandal in the Senate (assuming Democracy) never occurs if we've been caught red-handed planting a nuke: All nations so quickly declare war on us once the "nuke heard around the world" goes off that the Senate, despite its deep disapproval for what our spy just did, realizes that now is totally NOT the time to collapse the government -- now is the time to stand united against the world's nations, all of which want our heads on a platter -- if not for the sake of world domination, then at the very least, for the sake of survival, for we can ill-afford to be "a house divided" given these sudden circumstances!

But I have not yet been able to concoct anywhere near a remotely plausible explanation as to how going nuclear with a spy has absolutely zero chance of putting a black mark on a nation's Reputation..... I wonder if one exists...