[Vanilla] King - winning on

[dwcole78]

So only have Vanilla as I don't get to play much and money tight currently but trying to win on King. Lost several games and learned some things but thought I would post a game as it goes along here look for advice. Settings for this game: standard speed and size, ancient era start and continents map. I am playing as Gilgamesh which feels like cheating but eh...



Pic of my starting social,



Starting tech, going pottery then irrigation so I can get the rice near me then science district quickly. Don't seem to be near aggressive AI yet so no need for archers early.

First of two possible second city locations

Second of two possible second city locations


Starting plot


Generally I have found I don't expand quickly enough AI just gets more cities and steam roles me. Also not sure city and district placement is optimal. Build order was two scouts and then a slinger for barb defense. Barbs have been amazingly sparse but I expect them to pick up soon. I am thinking to build two cities here relatively quickly for me - building them next before building any districts or buildings even a granary. Usually I build a granary first. Thinking of taking the North city spot next to the wonder first as south site while nice is protected it seems from other civs for longer. Thoughts?

Also if a better way to post screenshots let me know - took me a while to figure out how to post them at all putting in the link from steam didn't work so had to copy and paste after clicking twice on pic in steam.

Thanks all!

 

[Bangau]

I've actually never played Vanilla, so my advice is based on GS rules. Some tips:
- Civics: try to get the boost for whatever Civic you're going for. Both first ones are fine, but Craftsmanship helps get units faster, I'd go for that first. Either way: try to get the 40% boost, even better: try to get both. Explore to find another continent. Continent splits are often near mountains, so go north and then east and see if there's another continent there. Build or but a builder and improve three tiles for the other boost.
- Research: irrigation isn't very important at this moment. Get Animal Husbandry to be able to improve the deer. After that go for a holy site or a campus a good spot near mountains. There are two great spots for this to the south of your capital.
- Second city: might be different in Vanilla, but in GS you cannot place a city within three tiles distance of another city except when there is all coast/ocean between them. SO you can't place it on the tile to the north. The position you pinned to the south is possible, but I'd recommend placing one cities a few tiles to the west of that and another one a few tiles to the east. Your second city between your capital and the city state along the river two tiles from the wonder (on the wood) is a great spot. Use the settler lens (press '4') to see which tiles are good for cities.
- Granary: typically you start building these when your city runs out of housing to grow. Settlers are the most important thing in the early game. Once you have a few units to explore and defend yourself build settlers. Not just settlers, between building settlers build a few districts depending on the tiles you got and the type of game you want to play. Try an early holy site to get a religion. Early campus to boost your science game.

A CIV VI game is, fortunately, not easily planned from the start. You can have a strategy, but the most important thing is to adapt to the opportunities and threats the game throws at you. Have fun!

 

[dwcole78]

Thanks Bangau - I think you are right that you can't put a city within three tiles even on vanilla. Where up north should I put a city? I am worried about someone else taking the natural wonder. Not sure I can get a builder quickly enough for the boost and still build settlers like I need to but we will see. Why improve the deer over the rice?

 

[knighterrant81]

Most of the stuff in my guide is probably applicable. Yes, getting out enough cities early is really really important. Do that first.

 

[Bangau]

Thanks Bangau - I think you are right that you can't put a city within three tiles even on vanilla. Where up north should I put a city? I am worried about someone else taking the natural wonder. Not sure I can get a builder quickly enough for the boost and still build settlers like I need to but we will see. Why improve the deer over the rice?

The tile northwest of where you put the marker. Improve both the deer and the rice. The builder has three charges.

 

[linaker]

It's a while since I played vanilla, but I think you start with farming, so you can farm the rice without discovering irrigation and doing so will give a boost to gaining that tech. I wouldn't build 2 scouts on a continents map; 1 is enough. And certainly don't build 2 straightaway. My build order would be scout, builder, then slinger/warrior depending on the barb threat or settler if I was feeling brave/reckless enough to risk sending an unaccompanied one out.

Definitely research animal husbandry and mining. Your builder can then build a camp, farm and mine the plains hill. (+1 from the farm will mitigate the 1F from the plains hill). Alternatively, you can buy the tiles necessary to get you access one of the marbles and quarry that instead of mining the plains hill. (Boosts Masonry and gives you a resource you can sell). However, that is going to take a lot of gold and I probably wouldn't do it if I planed to place my 2nd city near one of the marbles. (There is a spot by the lake and between the marble and the mountain). (Three improvements boosts craftsmanship, allowing you to churn out an army faster and clear those barb camps, boost the military tradition civic, research it and get a production boost to building war carts).

1SW of your capital is a good spot for a campus (+2 adjacency) If you place some later districts around that you will get +3 adjacency which is good because later you can run the rationalism civic which gives +50% science to cities with a campus with 3 or more adjacency. Alternatively, you could place a campus south of that and get an immediate +3 adjacency. However, that would remove the woods on that tile and it would be preferable to chop them first. As district costs increase with time, you don't want to wait ages to place the campus there until you have a builder to chop the forest. Place the campus but don't build it yet. (The cost will be fixed). Rushing through the tech tree at the start isn't that good because it will increase your district costs. You have +2 science in your capital for discovering Stockholm (I think). You also have Ziggurats, so build (at least one) one on the marsh across the river. The aim is to exploit Sumeria's traits, so build Ziggurats and an army to clear those barbarian outposts and war carts to clear them further afield before you build districts and granaries.

It would be helpful if you checked the show yield icons under map options. It's difficult to tell whether tiles are grassland or plains and so hard to advise on city placement. However, I would say: Go North. It looks as if you are the civ which is furthest south on the continent. If so, the AI is (very probably) not going to send a settler south of your city. If it does, it will be easy to conquer it. So no to placing the second city in location 2. Send your settlers north and claim that territory before the AI does. I would only build an early city south, east or west of my capital if there was a really good reason. (eg Excellent production/resources, I wanted to boost the sailing tech or wanted to have some desert tiles to build the pyramids on). Once you have the Colonization civic, build/chop as many settlers as you can bearing in mind you want an army to clear those barb camps, builders, granaries if your cities are approaching the housing cap, possibly a district or two to boost civic research and maybe monuments/wonders.

You definitely do want to build a city or cities near the wonder. If I didn't want a city next to the marble to the west, I'd be inclined to build on the woods north of your proposed location. I'd want to maximise the number of +1C +1G tiles close to the city centre, but I'd have concerns about the amount of production in those locations and whether the +1C +1G tiles are worth working. (It's difficult to see). First though, I might build on the coast by the silk or 1 to the East of that. That city would be a pain: it needs an early granary, gold to buy tiles, builders to improve tiles and possibly a trade route from it to increase the food. It could be a production powerhouse though, if you can get it to grow.

 

[dwcole78]

Thanks for all the help! Hope to get back to this game this weekend and play some more with your suggestions. Any better way to show screenshots? Also linaker do you get extra adjacency for putting other districts around the campus? I thought that was only for social (which the only way to get adjacency was from other districts) is this incorrect? Thanks again all!

 

[linaker]

Yes, you get +1 adjacency for every 2 districts next to the campus. A city centre is a district. (Just mentioning that, because it took me several games before I realised). I'm pretty sure that in vanilla, all districts get extra +1 adjacency from every 2 districts next to them, but my memory might be a bit faulty on that.

 

[Victoria]

Your screens shots are fine, some people with poor connections, slow devices may appreciate pics in spoilers.
Yes +1 for each 2 adjacent with things like aqueducts and dams being districts also. The government district also gives +1 so often a campus by a mountain with a city centre and govt district gives +3 which is the right number to aim for.

 

[dwcole78]

Current state of my civilization: gotten much more interesting as found people. Thought I was on an island by myself at first. Then discovered Norway other locations. Even in tech (which surprised me) but behind in culture - bought a bunch of monuments recently so expect that to take care of itself. Moving forward I could war with Norway or turtle and go into build mode focus on trade, exploration (sea units), and science. As well the sheep close to the natural wonder could be a plus four religion spot but would remove sheep and monument bonuses so not worth it right?

Late to the religious party even though I got a pantheon very early I think. Went with divine spark just to good.

Went with choral music and tithe for religion seemed the best options hope to reform soon and pick up wat.



Government when I changed to republic - went to plus for great prophet when I could (first time I had to do that I usually go religion early) and then plus for great scientist.

 

[dwcole78]

Ahh no one with more thoughts?

 

[knighterrant81]

Do you have any questions in particular? It is usually easier to help if you get more focused in what you are asking about. In general, if you can win at the difficulty level you are at, you are doing fine. If you want to move up a difficulty level, tighten up your early game - focus more on getting your number of cities and military built up earlier and earlier.

 

[linaker]

Grassland hills are among the best, (if not the best), tiles, so I avoid building districts on them unless there is a good reason (eg adjacency bonuses or non availability of other suitable locations) and that's especially true if the tile has a bonus from a natural wonder. A mine is 2 production (before apprenticeship) and that alone equals 4 faith. But certainly don't place a district there without harvesting the sheep first. Ur does not seem to be short of food now or in the future, so I would harvest the sheep anyway and build a mine, quickly if you have or are close to researching apprenticeship.

Alesund is a very strategic city. It enables ships to sail between your island's land masses (rather than around them) and cuts off your land access to the south if Norway denies you open borders. It's also in a good defensive position. It is difficult to put under siege. Realistically, you can only capture it from 1 tile and attack it from 4. I would be tempted to conquer it, before it has walls and Norway stations a navy there, but that ends trade and friendly relations with Norway. You wouldn't have that dilemma if you had placed a city there yourself though. Explorers need to follow 1 tile wide land spurs to see if they lead to a dead end or another civ. As soon as I knew where that led, I would have made settling there a priority. To improve, you do need to expand faster. Five cities at T95 is probably not a problem on King but at higher difficulties the rule of thumb seems to be at least 4 cities by T50 and 8 by T100.

If that's your Government now, you aren't making use of the settler building bonus. It would be better to have the maneuver policy in place and get a boost to the building of the war cart.

You haven't built any wonders. Perhaps you have read that can be a trap and it is at higher difficulties. But as you have divine spark, you should be looking for a city in which you can build the oracle, a campus and a theatre square asap to churn out those great people points. You also have desert tiles and so an opportunity to build the pyramids. However, both of those may have gone now (or be close to going), even on King difficulty.

Divine spark implies building lots of campuses and theatre squares, so if possible, I would have taken Jesuit education and got some help with building libraries, amphitheatres etc. Choral music is useful if you are going for a science victory and want to get culture without building lots of theatre squares, so you can concentrate on campuses and their buildings. You may find you have too much culture and shoot up the civics tree making building campuses and theatre squares more expensive.

You don't seem to have decided which type of victory you are going for yet. That would help you identify what next. If domination, attacking Alesund is vital. If religious, then focus on exploring to find the civs/cities that need converting, don't build the Wat, build the one that gives an extra charge to missionaries and apostles.(taking Jesuit educations would also have been a mistake, since you should spend faith on religious units). If science, build ziggurats, grow your population, build campuses and use your culture to get to The Enlightenment Civic and rationalism. If culture, build theatre squares and probably identify some wonders to build, though I can't remember how to do vanilla pre rock band culture victories, but there are some good guides available here.

 

[dwcole78]

Do you have any questions in particular? It is usually easier to help if you get more focused in what you are asking about. In general, if you can win at the difficulty level you are at, you are doing fine. If you want to move up a difficulty level, tighten up your early game - focus more on getting your number of cities and military built up earlier and earlier.

Any issues with the decisions I made in between? Should I war with Norway or turtle? Did I make the right choices on religion? Should I make a religious square out of the sheep square beside the natural wonder?

 

[knighterrant81]

Any issues with the decisions I made in between? Should I war with Norway or turtle? Did I make the right choices on religion? Should I make a religious square out of the sheep square beside the natural wonder?

I'd probably just expand peacefully since 1) Alesund is going to be difficult to attack since Harold will likely have a strong Navy and there are only two squares to attack it from land 2) there seems to be plenty of space in the area surrounding Stockholm. You should be able to squeeze 8-10 good cities there.

I'd ignore religion completely. Unless going for a Cultural or Religious victory, it will only slow down your expansion. Because Religion takes Districts, it can really hamper your development if you don't know what you are doing, so I'd suggest ignoring it if you are struggling at all. Sumeria's strength lies in early warfare and science (through Ziggurats), not religion anyway.

You can check your progress on your own. I see you are playing a Vanilla build, but there are still mods out there that will display relative military strength (which is built into Gathering Storm by default). Keep an eye on that stat if you are considering attacking your neighbors. try to get 8-10 cities by turn 100. If you aren't at least close to this, you need to expand faster. It is a really simple rule of thumb and will help you improve your game when you are just starting out. I see 5 cities at turn 95. You have room for probably 3 more cities (maybe more) near Stockholm. You should probably have Settled 3 more cities by this point in the game. Your army also looks a bit lacking. At this point I'd probably have 3-4 Warriors, 3-4 Archers, and 3-4 War Carts (because Sumeria). However, the lack of an army would be okay because you are in a pretty isolated location so you aren't going to get overrun anytime soon. You could afford to focus on building Settlers instead of military. Which, since you are behind in both Settlers and military, begs the question: what, exactly, ARE you building in the first 100 turns?

 

[dwcole78]

First 100 turns was built with districts, explorers and buildings inside cities. Man the focus in this one on lots of cities sure is different than five. Going to be an adjustment.

 

[knighterrant81]

Yep first 100 turns should focus more on Settlers and military rather than districts. Understand that large cities are actively detrimental and you'll understand that city center buildings can generally be delayed for quite awhile. Claim territory first, and then build your districts. I do tend to build 1-2 districts early (generally Campuses if I have good locations for them), but not much more than that. I usually build a scout first, but only one.

Here's a good way to think about this. Districts are the most powerful thing in this game - but generally each victory type requires only ONE district type (SV wants Campuses, CV wants Theater Squares, etc.) If you only build 5 cities, well, that's only 5 "victory districts." If you build 10 cities, you have more places to build your victory district.

Civ VI can sort of be summed up as a series of phases. Expand/Conquer-->build your victory district in every city-->continue hitting End Turn until you win.

 

[dwcole78]

Ug ok that is disappointing...thanks! ((anyone with contrary advice?))

 

[Bangau]

Civ VI can sort of be summed up as a series of phases. Expand/Conquer-->build your victory district in every city-->continue hitting End Turn until you win.

This is a bit oversimplified I think. Fortunately there are many more ways to play the game. Early expansion works great, but you can thrive and win with only a few cities. Wide is easier in CIV VI, but tall works as well. Conquest the same: if you conquer your neighbors (successfully) it'll make the game easier to win, but you can play peacefully as well and win the game. Your 'victory' district is important, for sure, but there's a lot more to it than just 'spam out one type of district'. A science victory e.g. needs a lot of culture as well, and if you want to go wide for a SV a lot of faith comes in handy. It's often a balancing act of the right districts to build in the right places, and also 'playing the map' and using the opportunities it gives you.

 

[knighterrant81]

This is a bit oversimplified I think. Fortunately there are many more ways to play the game. Early expansion works great, but you can thrive and win with only a few cities. Wide is easier in CIV VI, but tall works as well. Conquest the same: if you conquer your neighbors (successfully) it'll make the game easier to win, but you can play peacefully as well and win the game. Your 'victory' district is important, for sure, but there's a lot more to it than just 'spam out one type of district'. A science victory e.g. needs a lot of culture as well, and if you want to go wide for a SV a lot of faith comes in handy. It's often a balancing act of the right districts to build in the right places, and also 'playing the map' and using the opportunities it gives you.

As you go higher in difficulty, it will become more clear that Religion and Faith are generally bad investments (unless going for a Religious or *perhaps* a Cultural Victory) and that the best way, by far, is to play wide, not tall. I'm not saying its a great situation, but Civ VI really emphasizes expansion, certainly a lot more than V. There were plenty of times the V meta actually favored tall play. VI definitely favors wide play, and a main reason it favors wide play is because you need additional cities in order to increase the main yield you are focusing on. Yeah, culture is important for a SV (just like it is important for every victory type, the same thing for Science or, really every resource except Faith) but Science is the most important resource for a SV (moreso with the new GS version of the SV). Here's the thing - how do you increase culture? By building more Theater Squares, which means *building more cities* (yes, Wonders also give plenty of Culture, but because Wonders have terrain requirements, you can't really spam Wonders in the same city like you could in V - you need - wait for it - more cities). The District system really limits tall play in VI.