King Younk's Questions thread

This is marathon speed, right?

Post the turn 0 save and I guarantee you I can win the same map, by space, 200 turns or more faster. Since you're so adamant on not taking advice - yes, that's a challenge. Let me show you what you can truly accomplish with the proper technique.
Bruh, I take lots of advice! I didn’t apply every single piece, but I took a lot!

I actually attribute my success on this map to worker spamming early and building GW as a high priority, then peacefully expanding until I could plant a GSpy on my only continent-mate, the English. Naturally this was not solely to steal technology.

You are probably better than me, and starting from 0 gives you the advantage of knowing the map from turn 0! Huge advantage!
 
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I think he is suggesting your next game.

With so much empty land here GW was probably needed. With jungle you wanted 2 or so workers per city till jungle cleared.
 
I think he is suggesting your next game.

With so much empty land here GW was probably needed. With jungle you wanted 2 or so workers per city till jungle cleared.
Good thought on that ratio. I might have needed more workers for this map, though I will still probably win regardless.

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Imma win this thing. Some mfer will attack me once I get closer to launch-time, but Imma nuke their sorry rearend and shoot down many of their nukes with SDI!


What's a good way to pad my score while the spaceship completes? Gold, nukes, something else, or a combination?
 

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Pop, and advanced techs.
 
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I'm 23 turns from victory, my closest rival to victory is Pacal who has not even finished two spaceship components, and I have a good 50 nukes, so I'm ready to counter a last second invasion with a high likelihood of success. I should have cottaged the jungles sooner, but this one was pretty good.

I think the BUG mod adds one or two difficulty levels to people's competence though, lol.
 

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Ram could declare on you. Just keep most of your actual army besides nukes in your capital in case he attacks. That's the one city you don't wanna lose even for a turn because all your Spaceship progress will get destroyed.

EDIT: Nevermind. Just saw Beijing is inland. You're good! :)
 
I think the BUG mod adds one or two difficulty levels to people's competence though, lol.
I can't disagree here, it's a great tool. It also saves a horsehocky ton of micro managing time. The other great benefit is that there are aspects of the game that tend to get ignored, either via ignorance or clicking "next turn" too quickly, and BUG helps to remedy that as well. In all honesty, THIS is how the game should have been made in the first place. Who wants to have to click through several screens every turn to check diplo, trading opportunities, etc? This is so much better.
 
Started a new game as Asoka. Got Caste System early, along with GLH, GW, Oracle, and possibly 'mids. Shaka is a neighbor, so I need to f$&@ him up soon, but other than that, I think this is a great start for cultural victory. Here is my strategy...

1. Conquer Shaka with an Axe rush
2. Spread Confucianism
3. Get the Confucian shrine
4. Build/conquer another 11 cities so I'm at about 15.
5. Spam military, gold, and research in the non-cultural victory cities.
6. Win?

Any thoughts on how to pursue this one?

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Oi, this one is giving me the spins! I think I should wipe out Shaka, and engage in a defensive military campaign of aggression (to secure hills borders and chokeholds, though where that might be, I don't know), build the shrines to my two religions, build the Cathedrals for all the religions in my borders, and spread Confucianism especially, though the details of this, I'm not sure about!

I know that I don't want Shaka around, and especially not on my border, so I'm building up to wipe him out, though how to prioritize from here I'm unsure of. I feel this game could go very well or very poorly from here.


EDIT: Since I have mids now, should I pursue a SE? How many specialist cities should I pursue? Should I only run GAs and Rep?
 

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Oi, this one is giving me the spins! I think I should wipe out Shaka, and engage in a defensive military campaign of aggression (to secure hills borders and chokeholds, though where that might be, I don't know), build the shrines to my two religions, build the Cathedrals for all the religions in my borders, and spread Confucianism especially, though the details of this, I'm not sure about!

I know that I don't want Shaka around, and especially not on my border, so I'm building up to wipe him out, though how to prioritize form here I'm unsure of. I feel this game could go very well or very poorly from here.


EDIT: Since I have mids now, should I pursue a SE? How many specialist cities should I pursue? Should I only run GAs and Rep?

Can you post a t0 save of this, or ANY of the other maps you rolled? Thanks.
 
Most obvious:

- The Great Lighthouse is of marginal use if you only have domestic trade routes -> Open borders and establish trade connections (explore!)

- Share a religion with a group of AI (in this case Hindu or Jewish). The other group will hate you, but at least you'll have some friends and trading partners. By founding and adopting your own religions everybody will hate you sooner or later.

- Work the good tiles. The game even helps you here if you let it. Just enter your capital, click on the city center and see how the remaining turns for your settler are reduced from 11 to 8

- The Pyramids are a bad investment without access to stone or being IND. But if you think you have to build them, at least adopt a civic other than despotism

- Avoid fighting wars at tech parity. You're building Swords and Archers, Shaka has Swords, Axes and Archers. This just won't cut it. Had you instead beelined Construction and Horseback Riding right away and really committed to it, leaving out all the unnecessary stuff (Theology, Iron Working etc.), you could've completely crushed Shaka by now with Catapults and WEs

Basically, you're playing too much like the AI: Some wonders, some units, some buildings, religions,... But we as human players have the advantage to add focus to that.
The most important piece of advice someone gave me in the beginning was "Beeline something and then do something with it"
 
I have long struggled to figure out the number of workers which would be appropriate to build in Civ4 in order to improve my land in an expeditious manner. Though I don't believe this equation is perfect, I welcome any improvements (perhaps we can make a Wiki of this) to seek the ideal worker formula together.

Some thoughts....

A good number of cities on a huge map might be 30-40, not including any vassals. If each city has 8 in the inner ring, and 12 in the outer ring which they can access, this brings us to 20 workable tiles per city, assuming no overlap, mountains, coastal tiles, desert, or other unworkable tiles. This turns into 600-800 tiles to be worked across the ideal finished state empire.

Next we must account for jungle to be cleared and forests to be chopped. On marathon, chopping a square of jungle takes 12 turns, while forests take 9 turns. To clear 600 tiles of jungle is 7,200 worker-turns, 800 tiles is 9,600, while with forests that would equal 5,400 worker-turns, while 800 tiles is 7,200 worker-turns. This is a situation I have never seen or heard of before, but it gives us an extreme example of how many workers we need to improve our situation quickly.

Under marathon settings, a mine takes 12 turns, a farm 15 turns, and a cottage 12 turns. I will use the first letter of each improvement to determine the range of worker-turns each improvement combination (jungle-clearing+cottage, etc.) will take based on the number of cities. I did not include camps, plantations or other improvements since the number of turns they take (12-15) falls inside this range and are thus redundant.

JC+M=(14,400 - 19,200) (30-40 cities)
JC+F=(16,200 - 21,600)
JC+C= (14,400 - 19,200)

FC+M=(12,612 - 16,800)
FC+F=(14,400 - 19,200)
FC+C=(12,612 - 16,800)

So we see anywhere from a range of 12,612 - 19,200 worker-turns in order to improve every single tile, not including roads and railroads. A road and railroad will take 12 turns each, which creates a range of (600*12)=7,200 - 9,600=(800*12) turns added.

9,600+21,600=31,200 worker-turns to improve every single tile to its utmost, assuming the most adverse conditions possible.

Now how many workers do we need to fully improve this in a timely manner? I have heard the rule of thumb that you should build all of your cottages before the year 0 in a standard game so that they are given the maximum opportunity to produce - especially by the time you get to PP and FS.

To create a table, this is the number of turns it will take to improve every single jungle tile to its utmost (21,600 on 40 cities) assuming we only need to waste two turns to send a worker to the tile, and we only send one worker to work on each tile to avoid that waste, but that we need to improve the tile and then come back later to build a road, so as not to slow our economy. That is an easy, set number - 1,600 worker-turns used on moving to the tile without any improvement - just movement itself. So now we are add that 1,600 to 21,600 to reach 23,200 worker-turns to improve all jungle tiles to farmland on all 20 workable tiles on an all jungle map.

I have put forth the most extreme assumptions, which will never appear on a standard map, but this is not a problem, since it means we will only improve our land more quickly.

So how many turns will it take to improve every single tile, assuming we start with 40 cities with 1 border pop (another contrived assumption, but it will help us, so let's go with it).

23,200/1=23,200
23,200/2=11,600
23,200/5=4,460
23,200/10=2,320
23,200/15=1,547
23,200/20=1,160
23,200/25=928
23,200/30=774
23,200/35=663
23,200/40=580
23,200/45=516
23,200/50=464
23,200/55=422
23,200/60=387
23,200/75=310
23,200/100=232

So hypothetically if we were to start off with 40 cities at 1 border pop so that we have 20 tiles per city that can be worked, this could be fully improved by 100 workers in 232 turns, but 50 workers in 464 turns, or 30 workers in 774 turns.

This of course does not account for how quickly we should produce the workers, however.

In the early game with a non-expansive, non-industrious leader (assuming no bonuses toward the worker production in general) we need 120 hammers/excess food to produce one worker. If start off every new city before acquiring 50 workers with a Worker>Granary>Forge/Barracks/Market queue, depending on its specialty, and every jungle city with more or less the same except two workers, We should aim to build about 15-30 workers in our earliest cities to gain this worker advantage earlier.



This is just a rough outline, let me know your thoughts and any variable I missed!
 
So how to time out our 50 workers? Once we have reached a surplus of 12 hammers/shields, it will take us 10 turns per worker to produce one. We can consider this 250 turns to produce half of the 50 in one city (since the cities will produce one or two of their own). If we stagger this with 25 turns to build a settler, this will result in a worker being produced in the city every 35 turns. After 350 turns, this will be 10 workers, and might be enough for this city, on account of each new city being assigned to build 1 or 2 workers themselves.

So the early cities should build 3-4 workers in a few waves of expansion maybe?
 
Do workers cost maintenance?

Yes. Hover over unit cost on financial advisor screen. Tells you how many are free.

As for your worker post your putting way too much thought into that. You need enough workers so resources are improved quicker and you can remove forest/jungle to help cities progress.

I would of put that post here as you have asked about workers twice. Not many on here play marathan speed.
 
Don't overthink this. You don't build workers in a vacuum - you need to consider defense, a possible rush, spawnbusting, wonders, etc. If you have less forest you need fewer workers to chop, and you'll be whipping more, so you may need fewer improved tiles, too. And it helps to be more efficient with your workers, too - you want to avoid unnecessary roads, leave non-river plains alone, etc.

A good rule of thumb is 1-1.5 workers per city. But really, if you are working unimproved tiles, you need to either whip more or build more workers.
 
Don't overthink this. You don't build workers in a vacuum - you need to consider defense, a possible rush, spawnbusting, wonders, etc. If you have less forest you need fewer workers to chop, and you'll be whipping more, so you may need fewer improved tiles, too. And it helps to be more efficient with your workers, too - you want to avoid unnecessary roads, leave non-river plains alone, etc.

A good rule of thumb is 1-1.5 workers per city. But really, if you are working unimproved tiles, you need to either whip more or build more workers.
I am getting to considerations of defense, wonders, etc. But first I wanted a maximum number given exaggerated assumptions. I also think it is beneficial to build a few more workers earlier, so that cottages have more time to mature, and you get done more quickly, if you can do so without jeopardizing your safety.

So once we get the number of 800 (the number of maximum workable tiles on 40 cities), we should give a rough percentage of how many are not forested/jungled, and rework our thinking from there.

Maybe it's just better to produce 4-10 workers, depending on jungle/forest coverage in the early game, and then stick to the worker-granary-forge strategy from there? That should work itself out eventually. Unless you don't plan on growing too large and want to focus on developing your cities.
 
I agree with the others, you don't really need a formula to know how many workers to build. Build enough that you are improving all of the good tiles early. Think about your improvements in terms of 'tiers'. Tier 1 are you food and other high-yield specials. I would include chopping here, as long as you have something worthwhile to chop-and BUG can help you here as you can pre-chop as well. These must be improved ASAP, otherwise you're paying city maintenance for little or no return. Tier 2 would be your cottages and lower yield tiles. Jungle and roads would fall in Tier 3 (or maybe even lower if someone has an amendment to this list) as you don't want to be improving jungle until you HAVE to. I would only be explicity building workers to deal with Tier 1. In theory, you should be able to use that same group of workers to take care of Tier 2 as there are a limited number of Tier 1 tiles.

Granted, you also don't want to be moving workers all over the map, though this is less of a concern on Marathon. Basically, you may need a rough idea in the first 100 turns or so (which I guess translates into 300 turns on marathon maybe?) how many workers to build. After that, your core of workers should be more than sufficient.
 
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