KK-04 -- Cultural Capitalists
- Thread starter Kikinit
- Start date
Good job sooooo. You found a use for this lazy bunch we have calling themselves army 
Seems like Hatty and Washington are done for. I think Toku got some techs for the peace negotiation.
In this game, it won't be wise to stop research right now. With the lack of towns, we won't be getting much anyway and the risk is too big to see one of the annoyed civs attack. Even if we sign a DP woth Louis, I fear he will drop it anytime and leave us exposed
I agree the artists should be saved now for culture bombs
Thebes would be making temples after the Pagoda and it should prioritize the confucian or the christian one for Timbuktu to have another cathedral
Why are we researching corporation while we are running mercantilism ? Assembly line is still far and there are better techs like replacable parts or steel IMO
Thebes was growing to make more specialists not for the coastal tiles. You can use a specialist right now, or let the city grow and use 2 specialists a few turns later and I always prefer the latter option. I would have understood if you argued about accelerating the pagoda though
Louis has a huge sum of gold. Maybe we can sell him liberalism. Only Kublai don't know this tech
Seems like Hatty and Washington are done for. I think Toku got some techs for the peace negotiation.
In this game, it won't be wise to stop research right now. With the lack of towns, we won't be getting much anyway and the risk is too big to see one of the annoyed civs attack. Even if we sign a DP woth Louis, I fear he will drop it anytime and leave us exposed
I agree the artists should be saved now for culture bombs
Thebes would be making temples after the Pagoda and it should prioritize the confucian or the christian one for Timbuktu to have another cathedral
Why are we researching corporation while we are running mercantilism ? Assembly line is still far and there are better techs like replacable parts or steel IMO
sooooo said:
Thebes was growing to make more specialists not for the coastal tiles. You can use a specialist right now, or let the city grow and use 2 specialists a few turns later and I always prefer the latter option. I would have understood if you argued about accelerating the pagoda though
Louis has a huge sum of gold. Maybe we can sell him liberalism. Only Kublai don't know this tech
blid said:
blid said:
Yup, you're right on both points. On reflection it was definite
to research corporation. I must have forgotten we were in mercantilism. At least no one else has it and we can trade it away. Also, I didn't realise that thing about the specialists. Will remember it in future.
mike p
King
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 705
This game is so won.
1780 AD I MM a few specialists around the empire - nothing major. I did notice that whoever built those watermills in St. Petersburg cut off irrigation to a couple of farms, but I fix that.
The trade window is open:
World Map to Toku for 270 gold.
Scientific Method to GW for Astronomy and World Map.
Beef to Toku just to make him smile.
Deer to Kublai for 4 gpt.
Liberalism to Loius for 1760 gold.
I check out Mansa Musa's power rating, and I doubt he'll attack us.
1782 Corporation is complete. What would be more fun than building a bunch of Cossacks and winning a Conquest victory? Military Tradition is started.
Elephantine revolts to us and I almost razed it. Then I noticed that it was the Confucian holy city, which explained why our income jumped from -5 gpt to +33. (Incidently, it's bringing in 54 gpt at this point, -7 for maintenance, which means adding one more city raises our total maintenance by 9 across the empire - one reason I don't like to build no bonus resource cities.) Here's a screenshot from later on (The one I took at the time didn't come through.)
Makes me glad I didn't raze it!
I also decide to help out Louis by pillaging the deer camp south of Pi-Ramses (which is in anarchy after he took it.) That's what friends are for. I just wish I noticed the town directly south of it in time. Pi-Ramses will come out of revolt next turn and that will become French territory.
A few more trades:
Wheat to Toku for 9 gpt
Corn to Kublai for 3 gpt
World Map to Mansu Musa for 10 Gold (but he's still not pleased with us - there's just no reaching some people)
1784 Taoist Pagoda is done in Thebes, I start some more temples so we can finish up the other Cathedrals in Moscow and Timbuktu. Thebes is up to +304 culture per turn.
Oxford is done in Timbuktu, I start a grocer because the city needs health.
I start the Forbidden Palace in Djenne. Timbuktu has two National wonders already and Thebes has Versailles, so that seemed like a decent place for it.
1786 Jalal al-Din Rumi is born in Novogorad. He'll shave 4 turns off of Military Tradition and drunk with power from my recent Cossack rage in S-02, I actually consider it. Then I do the math and figure that since this game is won within 100 turns, getting 52 cpt from him in Thebes isn't really worth it.
1788
1790 Louis has been reducing Giza with catapults and sending in Muskateers and knights to die. There are four wounded Longbowmen and one Catapult. At the start of this turnset I promoted one our Grenadiers on the scene with Medic and those three are all healed up. There are also three knights in range, so we raze the city with no losses.
1792 - 1794 Nada mucho.
1796 Military Tradition is in. I upgrage all 8 knights, and with Cossacks in our pockets there will be no one to stop us this time. Bwahhahhahhahh!
Basically we just need to run out the clock. I think about chasing the Great Scientist for Physics, but instead go for steel and turn the Culture up to 80% (which puts us at -26 gpt).
Culture per turn increased as follows:
Moscow from 304 to 378.
Thebes from 332 to 424.
Timbuktu from 364 to 504.
1798 Forbidden Palace completes we're at -13 gpt at 80% Culture.
1800
1802 Kublai asks us to cancel our deals with GW. (Open Borders) Sure thing buddy.
1804 Byblos is taken by the French. The last Eqyptian city is on the other continent in the Tundra. (Hatty offered it to me for peace a while back but what's the point?)
Kublai makes peace with the Americans, but they're too crippled now to be a threat anyway.
1806 Mansa cancels Open Borders. What a meanie.
Dante Alighieri born in Timbuktu.
I try to renegotiate our deals with Kublai (cows and corn for 3 and 4 gold per turn), but after I cancel them, he's showing no gold per turn at all, instead of the 7 I was expecting. Oh well.
1808 - 1810 Nothing much happening.
Here's our cultural status:
Hey, I forgot that Legendary is 75,000 Culture on Epic, not 50,000. This could be a little harder than I thought and maybe I should have merged that first artist.
And our next great person will be coming from Thebes - most likely a Great Prophet.
On the bright side, we've got great artists chilling out in Thebes and Timbuktu.
We've got 11 Cossacks to repel invaders, and all of our production cities are pumping out more.
I really do think it's safe to dial down the research now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/kk-04_ad-1810.Civ4SavedGame
1780 AD I MM a few specialists around the empire - nothing major. I did notice that whoever built those watermills in St. Petersburg cut off irrigation to a couple of farms, but I fix that.
The trade window is open:
World Map to Toku for 270 gold.
Scientific Method to GW for Astronomy and World Map.
Beef to Toku just to make him smile.
Deer to Kublai for 4 gpt.
Liberalism to Loius for 1760 gold.
I check out Mansa Musa's power rating, and I doubt he'll attack us.
1782 Corporation is complete. What would be more fun than building a bunch of Cossacks and winning a Conquest victory? Military Tradition is started.
Elephantine revolts to us and I almost razed it. Then I noticed that it was the Confucian holy city, which explained why our income jumped from -5 gpt to +33. (Incidently, it's bringing in 54 gpt at this point, -7 for maintenance, which means adding one more city raises our total maintenance by 9 across the empire - one reason I don't like to build no bonus resource cities.) Here's a screenshot from later on (The one I took at the time didn't come through.)
Makes me glad I didn't raze it!I also decide to help out Louis by pillaging the deer camp south of Pi-Ramses (which is in anarchy after he took it.) That's what friends are for. I just wish I noticed the town directly south of it in time. Pi-Ramses will come out of revolt next turn and that will become French territory.
A few more trades:
Wheat to Toku for 9 gpt
Corn to Kublai for 3 gpt
World Map to Mansu Musa for 10 Gold (but he's still not pleased with us - there's just no reaching some people)
1784 Taoist Pagoda is done in Thebes, I start some more temples so we can finish up the other Cathedrals in Moscow and Timbuktu. Thebes is up to +304 culture per turn.
Oxford is done in Timbuktu, I start a grocer because the city needs health.
I start the Forbidden Palace in Djenne. Timbuktu has two National wonders already and Thebes has Versailles, so that seemed like a decent place for it.
1786 Jalal al-Din Rumi is born in Novogorad. He'll shave 4 turns off of Military Tradition and drunk with power from my recent Cossack rage in S-02, I actually consider it. Then I do the math and figure that since this game is won within 100 turns, getting 52 cpt from him in Thebes isn't really worth it.
1788
1790 Louis has been reducing Giza with catapults and sending in Muskateers and knights to die. There are four wounded Longbowmen and one Catapult. At the start of this turnset I promoted one our Grenadiers on the scene with Medic and those three are all healed up. There are also three knights in range, so we raze the city with no losses.
1792 - 1794 Nada mucho.
1796 Military Tradition is in. I upgrage all 8 knights, and with Cossacks in our pockets there will be no one to stop us this time. Bwahhahhahhahh!
Basically we just need to run out the clock. I think about chasing the Great Scientist for Physics, but instead go for steel and turn the Culture up to 80% (which puts us at -26 gpt).
Culture per turn increased as follows:
Moscow from 304 to 378.
Thebes from 332 to 424.
Timbuktu from 364 to 504.
1798 Forbidden Palace completes we're at -13 gpt at 80% Culture.
1800
1802 Kublai asks us to cancel our deals with GW. (Open Borders) Sure thing buddy.
1804 Byblos is taken by the French. The last Eqyptian city is on the other continent in the Tundra. (Hatty offered it to me for peace a while back but what's the point?)
Kublai makes peace with the Americans, but they're too crippled now to be a threat anyway.
1806 Mansa cancels Open Borders. What a meanie.
Dante Alighieri born in Timbuktu.
I try to renegotiate our deals with Kublai (cows and corn for 3 and 4 gold per turn), but after I cancel them, he's showing no gold per turn at all, instead of the 7 I was expecting. Oh well.
1808 - 1810 Nothing much happening.
Here's our cultural status:
Hey, I forgot that Legendary is 75,000 Culture on Epic, not 50,000. This could be a little harder than I thought and maybe I should have merged that first artist.
And our next great person will be coming from Thebes - most likely a Great Prophet.
On the bright side, we've got great artists chilling out in Thebes and Timbuktu.
We've got 11 Cossacks to repel invaders, and all of our production cities are pumping out more.
I really do think it's safe to dial down the research now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/kk-04_ad-1810.Civ4SavedGame
Excellent stuff Mike. Each of the temples is going to be worth at least 8 
in Thebes with all the cathedrals and it hasn't any yet.
We need to get the cities running as many artist specialists as we can so food is the priority for growing our cultural capitals.
The capatilist roster:
-- Kikinit
-- blid
-- sooooo
-- Mike p -- Just played
-- Talamane -- Up (for 10 or 15)
-- Ralph Jackson -- On Deck
in Thebes with all the cathedrals and it hasn't any yet.We need to get the cities running as many artist specialists as we can so food is the priority for growing our cultural capitals.
The capatilist roster:
-- Kikinit
-- blid
-- sooooo
-- Mike p -- Just played
-- Talamane -- Up (for 10 or 15)
-- Ralph Jackson -- On Deck
Should we save some money and use Ralph idea of buy rushing stuff in Thebes to speed its catch-up. We can also buy those remaining cathedrals in Moscow and Timbuktu though that may be a bit expensive
@mike : I forgot about that awesome cossacks. With enough cannons, I guess we can repel any invasion thoughts. I think we need to dedicate Rostov (IIRC coastal with good prod) to frigates (alt+frigate till end of game) and post them as sentinels along the japanese front
Talamane is OOP ?
@mike : I forgot about that awesome cossacks. With enough cannons, I guess we can repel any invasion thoughts. I think we need to dedicate Rostov (IIRC coastal with good prod) to frigates (alt+frigate till end of game) and post them as sentinels along the japanese front
Talamane is OOP ?
As Talamane hasn't got it yet, Ralph's up.
Speeding things with money is fine with me. Can we generate enough to do all that blid mentioned? Cathedrals will be expensive.
Cossack's and cannons should keep us safe for a while yet.
Speeding things with money is fine with me. Can we generate enough to do all that blid mentioned? Cathedrals will be expensive.
Cossack's and cannons should keep us safe for a while yet.
MM asks for biology. Hmm, no. Since he wont part with replaceable parts, i see little reason to give away a tech. It makes him furious. So be it.
We need to decide where to put West Point. St Pete looks good (has HE) and it can be chopped in.
Trade chem for replaceable parts with GW straight up. We have no east coastal cities, and we have no passages from one to the other. If wars comes with MM, Tekedda, a crap tundra town should be taken for that strategic advantage.
Awdaghost has a revolt. Betwixt Thebes and Timbuktu, it has little chance. Some of our cities are borderline on health, so grocers are started in those places. Djenne spits out three workers to aid in building lumbermills. MM pulls off some miracle and gets Awdaghost back in line.
Toku is full of himself, so he demands democracy. I suppose we need to build more cossacks to put him in his place.
Of all GPs, we get a great engineer in Thebes. He can get us 2000 beakers towards steam or we can have a golden age with the artist still parked in Timbuktu. Our cash flow is about to go nearly even or positive when Thebes' grocer is complete in two turns. I have queued up a 'duct in Novgorod for the health. Rostov is building frigates. West Point is due in 9, but will complete earlier than that due to some pending chops.
I have turned to physics, hopefully we can get a great scientist. If we are serious about it, we can adjust the sci rate upwards. The next player should change the free specialist in each city we got from the Statue of Liberty to suit that particular city's needs. That has not been done.
@ 80% culture:
Thebes is 544/33797
Timbuktu is 594/36946
Moscow is 402/40729
Moscow has a stupa nearing completion (3 turns). Thebes has no more cultural buildings to make, so the artist in Timbuktu should probably be merged there.
The Save
We need to decide where to put West Point. St Pete looks good (has HE) and it can be chopped in.
Trade chem for replaceable parts with GW straight up. We have no east coastal cities, and we have no passages from one to the other. If wars comes with MM, Tekedda, a crap tundra town should be taken for that strategic advantage.
Awdaghost has a revolt. Betwixt Thebes and Timbuktu, it has little chance. Some of our cities are borderline on health, so grocers are started in those places. Djenne spits out three workers to aid in building lumbermills. MM pulls off some miracle and gets Awdaghost back in line.
Toku is full of himself, so he demands democracy. I suppose we need to build more cossacks to put him in his place.
Of all GPs, we get a great engineer in Thebes. He can get us 2000 beakers towards steam or we can have a golden age with the artist still parked in Timbuktu. Our cash flow is about to go nearly even or positive when Thebes' grocer is complete in two turns. I have queued up a 'duct in Novgorod for the health. Rostov is building frigates. West Point is due in 9, but will complete earlier than that due to some pending chops.
I have turned to physics, hopefully we can get a great scientist. If we are serious about it, we can adjust the sci rate upwards. The next player should change the free specialist in each city we got from the Statue of Liberty to suit that particular city's needs. That has not been done.
@ 80% culture:
Thebes is 544/33797
Timbuktu is 594/36946
Moscow is 402/40729
Moscow has a stupa nearing completion (3 turns). Thebes has no more cultural buildings to make, so the artist in Timbuktu should probably be merged there.
The SaveNice work Talamane. We can do a bit of rearranging specialists now. Especially in our capitals. I counted 9 artists in our GP city so it's got a pretty good chance of giving us 1 last artist eventually.
I recommend Thebes changes the two water cells that are being worked to artist specialists. It won't hurt production and there's no more growth left anyway from what I can see. It can also build a university for a little extra culture.
Timbuktu is finishing it's last available cultural building and can maybe work a few more artist specialists instead of scientists and prophets. Due to the hermitage here it's doing pretty well.
Moscow is now in last place in the cpt. Once it finishes the Stupa it's building it can fire the engineer and priests and hire as many artists as it can afford. Then we can hold on to the Great Artists we've got stored up until we are ready to pop the last towns over the line.
We should be able to finish in about 60 turns or so. We just need to keep our borders defended for that much longer.
The capatilist roster:
-- Kikinit -- On Deck
-- blid
-- sooooo
-- Mike p
-- Talamane -- Just played
-- Ralph Jackson -- Up (for 10 or 15)
I recommend Thebes changes the two water cells that are being worked to artist specialists. It won't hurt production and there's no more growth left anyway from what I can see. It can also build a university for a little extra culture.
Timbuktu is finishing it's last available cultural building and can maybe work a few more artist specialists instead of scientists and prophets. Due to the hermitage here it's doing pretty well.
Moscow is now in last place in the cpt. Once it finishes the Stupa it's building it can fire the engineer and priests and hire as many artists as it can afford. Then we can hold on to the Great Artists we've got stored up until we are ready to pop the last towns over the line.
We should be able to finish in about 60 turns or so. We just need to keep our borders defended for that much longer.
The capatilist roster:
-- Kikinit -- On Deck
-- blid
-- sooooo
-- Mike p
-- Talamane -- Just played
-- Ralph Jackson -- Up (for 10 or 15)
Ralph_Jackson
Emperor
Ok Got it , will have a wee look at it tonight and post on Thursday.
Ralph
Ralph
Hi,
things are looking good. Novgorod should hire even more artists (fire priest) and work only surplus food. Also, like Kikinit already said, artists should not be merged but used later for culture bombs. Concerning Moscow, it can build culture since it has good production and not as much commerce as the other 2
Concerning science, I'd rather go on the infantry path
things are looking good. Novgorod should hire even more artists (fire priest) and work only surplus food. Also, like Kikinit already said, artists should not be merged but used later for culture bombs. Concerning Moscow, it can build culture since it has good production and not as much commerce as the other 2
Concerning science, I'd rather go on the infantry path
A lot of our cities will be able to build courthouses, and our economy will improve, however, i doubt that we will reach assembly line and make enough infantry to impact the outcome of the game before it's over if 60 turns is the correct estimate.
A large number of "anti-landing" units (cossacks and cannons) should provide an adequate defense. This same type of force can also be used to put the hurt on the AI if need be.
A large number of "anti-landing" units (cossacks and cannons) should provide an adequate defense. This same type of force can also be used to put the hurt on the AI if need be.
I estimated 60 turns or so based on the values from Thebes:
to get = 75000 [Legendary] - (34000 [Current ] + 6000 [1 Great Artist]) = 35000
Number of turns left = 35000 / 600 [estimate / turn]
= 58.3 turns.
Timbuktu should be able to beat Thebes and I didn't do the calculation for Moscow as it's still building cultural buildings and not in it's max cultural output at the moment. Ralph can fix that once it's finished the Stupa. It may well be the decider now but we should have 3 artists before we reach a win so can put one in each city or juggle it as we see fit when we get nearer.
to get = 75000 [Legendary] - (34000 [Current ] + 6000 [1 Great Artist]) = 35000 Number of turns left = 35000
/ 600 [estimate / turn]= 58.3 turns.
Timbuktu should be able to beat Thebes and I didn't do the calculation for Moscow as it's still building cultural buildings and not in it's max cultural output at the moment. Ralph can fix that once it's finished the Stupa. It may well be the decider now but we should have 3 artists before we reach a win so can put one in each city or juggle it as we see fit when we get nearer.
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