SadoMacho
spanker of civilizations
I would still go with build a cathedral, confusian, buddhist,taoist,... This way the UHV will be less deterministic. What if confusianism doesn't spread to your cities?
Korea?
- Thread starter volbound1700
- Start date
usi
Shogun
While Mayan UP sounds good for Korea, I guess the following UP can be good too: "Can construct buildings disregarding their prerequisite buildings"
This way, a Cathedral can be built without having four cities, and maybe we can also add "Build Channel Tunnel and Stock Exchange by [whatever date]" for their UHV.
Possible to do so by Python, but that will probably mess UP the AI's research so much.
This way, a Cathedral can be built without having four cities, and maybe we can also add "Build Channel Tunnel and Stock Exchange by [whatever date]" for their UHV.
Possible to do so by Python, but that will probably mess UP the AI's research so much.
as kairob said, it's a lot more difficult, cause it would mean changing all civs' index, which are used everywhere in the code, to make room for the new one.
Replacing one civ can be done more easily: pick one civ that has a starting date reasonably close to the new's one, and replace coordinates, city names and other info. UHVs and UPs can be coded replacing old ones. Only settlers maps need to be put into the DLL. But even without that, the mod will run.
It's hard to explain in few words, however UHVs are all written in python (Victory.py), while delayed spawns need both SDK tweaks and python
volbound1700
Emperor
Rhye thinks for your response. This is also my favorite forum on the board. (Other forums have posters who have been less helpful). Sounds like I just need someone to help me with this mod. Any volunteers?
Okay, I just got thru with two test games, one as faux-Mayans and one as faux-Ethiopians. Each game took place in a slightly different world (launching from different 3000BC starts), but both civs started on turn 146 in the same location and with the same units (2 Settlers, 4 Archers, 3 Workers, 1 Confucian missionary). Though the worlds were a little different, the basic outlines in northeast Asia were the same, and I pursued the same strategies, settled the same cities, and was able to work the same tiles.
UHVs to test: (1) Build 3 cities in Manchuria by turn 191. (2) Build a Confucian Academy by AD 1400.
Strategy: Peaceful. Colonize Manchuria without fighting China, and build an Academy before the Mongol could take one of my cities away.
Conclusion: It's doable with both the Mayan and Ethiopian research powers.
In both games, I settled Seoul and one Manchurian city on the southeast coast. I built/chopped libraries, let them grow a bit, switched to building/chopping Settlers, then sat on the Settlers until the last moment to build cities. I had 4 scientists running pretty constantly.
With the Mayans, naturally, it was easier to get to the 2nd UHV. I got Music on turn 209 (32 turns before the Mongols were due to appear), and because I had chopped temples in both of my new Manchurian cities, I was able to build/chop my way to an Academy in Seoul by turn 231 (AD 1100). I used WB to give myself 2 GPs so I could simulate a Golden Age, then waited around until the Mongols spawned.
By 1220, I had 3 cities, sized 9, 9, and 8. With my science rate at 80% I was breaking even and generating 64 lbs/turn. Tech trading with the Chinese and other civs plus additional research had got me Monarchy, Calendar, Iron Working, Code of Laws, Sailing, Currency, Monotheism, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Drama, Feudalism, and Machinery.
With the Ethiopians I also skated under the deadline with time to spare. I got Music on turn 221 (12 turns after getting it as the Maya), which didn't leave me enough time to chop/build an Academy, so I chopped/built/whipped it. Fortunately, Seoul is so rich with food resources that it can almost recover one pop unit per turn when it has a Granary. I built the Academy the same year as with the Mayans: 1100.
By 1220, I had 3 cities, sized 10, 7, and 6. (In the Ethiopian game the Japanese launched two invasions of the peninsula, which distracted me from city management somewhat.) With the tech rate at 80% I was running a 1 coin surplus and generating 92 lbs/turn. Tech trading was not as lucrative, since I had acquired fewer techs to trade; also, Chinese research seems to have taken a different path, one that made trading harder. Anyway, to my starting techs and my beelined techs I added Monarchy, Calendar, Iron Working, Code of Laws, Sailing, Currency, Monotheism, Compass, and Construction.
My conclusion is that the two UHVs are pretty easy on Monarchy, as long as you know what you are doing. I'm not sure I do know what I'm doing, but I still got them without overly straining or worrying myself.
* * * * *
The international situation, btw, does have the capacity to make Korea's life difficult, though it didn't material affect either of the above games. In the Maya game, China and Japan quickly got into a war; after I felt myself secure, I joined China's side of the fight, apparently just long enough for Qin to slip out of the war by signing a peace treaty, and I was stuck fighting Tokugawa. Fortunately, he never mounted any kind of attack.
In the Ethiopian game, China and Japan remained at peace, and Japan attacked me. By 1200 he has also built two small cities in eastern Manchuria, and had twice tried attacking Seoul by landing an axeman and a catapult.
My relations with China were good in the Ethiopian game until 1180, when out of the blue Qin declared war on me.
* * * * *
EDIT: Played out a few more turns as the Maya and got Printing Press in 1475 (turn 275). Would've gotten it earlier, but was briefly distracted by shiny, shiny Guilds. WB confirmed I was the first to get it, though I noticed that Japan had acquired Education, so that might've been an iffy thing.
EDITx2: Played a bit more as the Mayans. Worldwide plague hit around 1480. Then another plague hit me around about 1530. Didn't hit anyone else, though. Could this have been a smallpox event tied specifically to the Mayans? I don't know how the America-specific plagues work.
Also, I'm feeling a little dubious about making the internet a project. It might be technically doable, but Korea is nicely trapped in its own little area, and the player would have little to do (save maybe the occasional war that is forced on him) for a long time.
Yeah, I dunno. You could say that about any of the religions. Unless you give the player a missionary at the start, it makes the ability to build temples/cathedral in time depend very much on a random element--the spread of a religion to one of your cities.
UHVs to test: (1) Build 3 cities in Manchuria by turn 191. (2) Build a Confucian Academy by AD 1400.
Strategy: Peaceful. Colonize Manchuria without fighting China, and build an Academy before the Mongol could take one of my cities away.
Conclusion: It's doable with both the Mayan and Ethiopian research powers.
In both games, I settled Seoul and one Manchurian city on the southeast coast. I built/chopped libraries, let them grow a bit, switched to building/chopping Settlers, then sat on the Settlers until the last moment to build cities. I had 4 scientists running pretty constantly.
With the Mayans, naturally, it was easier to get to the 2nd UHV. I got Music on turn 209 (32 turns before the Mongols were due to appear), and because I had chopped temples in both of my new Manchurian cities, I was able to build/chop my way to an Academy in Seoul by turn 231 (AD 1100). I used WB to give myself 2 GPs so I could simulate a Golden Age, then waited around until the Mongols spawned.
By 1220, I had 3 cities, sized 9, 9, and 8. With my science rate at 80% I was breaking even and generating 64 lbs/turn. Tech trading with the Chinese and other civs plus additional research had got me Monarchy, Calendar, Iron Working, Code of Laws, Sailing, Currency, Monotheism, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Drama, Feudalism, and Machinery.
With the Ethiopians I also skated under the deadline with time to spare. I got Music on turn 221 (12 turns after getting it as the Maya), which didn't leave me enough time to chop/build an Academy, so I chopped/built/whipped it. Fortunately, Seoul is so rich with food resources that it can almost recover one pop unit per turn when it has a Granary. I built the Academy the same year as with the Mayans: 1100.
By 1220, I had 3 cities, sized 10, 7, and 6. (In the Ethiopian game the Japanese launched two invasions of the peninsula, which distracted me from city management somewhat.) With the tech rate at 80% I was running a 1 coin surplus and generating 92 lbs/turn. Tech trading was not as lucrative, since I had acquired fewer techs to trade; also, Chinese research seems to have taken a different path, one that made trading harder. Anyway, to my starting techs and my beelined techs I added Monarchy, Calendar, Iron Working, Code of Laws, Sailing, Currency, Monotheism, Compass, and Construction.
My conclusion is that the two UHVs are pretty easy on Monarchy, as long as you know what you are doing. I'm not sure I do know what I'm doing, but I still got them without overly straining or worrying myself.
* * * * *
The international situation, btw, does have the capacity to make Korea's life difficult, though it didn't material affect either of the above games. In the Maya game, China and Japan quickly got into a war; after I felt myself secure, I joined China's side of the fight, apparently just long enough for Qin to slip out of the war by signing a peace treaty, and I was stuck fighting Tokugawa. Fortunately, he never mounted any kind of attack.
In the Ethiopian game, China and Japan remained at peace, and Japan attacked me. By 1200 he has also built two small cities in eastern Manchuria, and had twice tried attacking Seoul by landing an axeman and a catapult.
My relations with China were good in the Ethiopian game until 1180, when out of the blue Qin declared war on me.
* * * * *
EDIT: Played out a few more turns as the Maya and got Printing Press in 1475 (turn 275). Would've gotten it earlier, but was briefly distracted by shiny, shiny Guilds. WB confirmed I was the first to get it, though I noticed that Japan had acquired Education, so that might've been an iffy thing.
EDITx2: Played a bit more as the Mayans. Worldwide plague hit around 1480. Then another plague hit me around about 1530. Didn't hit anyone else, though. Could this have been a smallpox event tied specifically to the Mayans? I don't know how the America-specific plagues work.
Also, I'm feeling a little dubious about making the internet a project. It might be technically doable, but Korea is nicely trapped in its own little area, and the player would have little to do (save maybe the occasional war that is forced on him) for a long time.
Yeah, I dunno. You could say that about any of the religions. Unless you give the player a missionary at the start, it makes the ability to build temples/cathedral in time depend very much on a random element--the spread of a religion to one of your cities.
blizzrd
Micromanager
America gets a missionary at its spawn date based on the prevailing religion of the dominant colonial power in NAmerica. Korea should get the same, based on the prevailing religion of China.
Brilliant!
I've never played America. Something about the prospect of waiting thru all those turns has daunted me.
FWIW, the Ethiopia version died in a bloody mess. They lagged badly in the race to Printing Press; instability (which wasn't a problem for the Mayan iteration) led to a city peeling away; and the Chinese finally mounted a serious invasion. I resigned the game one turn before Ming the Merciless would have taken Seoul. (It would have been 1510.)
mitsho
Deity
So,
- it seems the mod is doable and we know which steps need to be taken
- there's a general consensus on what would constitute a good civ and good goals/up
Which means that if noone in here is confident to dive into the coding part, we can give up and let this thread once again go back into obscurity. That would be a pity though!
- it seems the mod is doable and we know which steps need to be taken
- there's a general consensus on what would constitute a good civ and good goals/up
Which means that if noone in here is confident to dive into the coding part, we can give up and let this thread once again go back into obscurity. That would be a pity though!
Panopticon
Utilitarian
The alternative is for the people interested in the project to learn Python and XML skills. That's what I did with my mod.
mitsho
Deity
yes of course, but you'd have to be really interested ;-) (and i don't have the time nor willingness)
usi
Shogun
There's a wiki for modders, and even for the begginers it shouldn't take more than a week to understand the basics of XML and Python.
Talking is fun, but coding is usually not so fun. If people only talk about ideas and throw all the burdens to the coders, then no coder might be willing to take the burden.
Talking is fun, but coding is usually not so fun. If people only talk about ideas and throw all the burdens to the coders, then no coder might be willing to take the burden.
Hey, the extent of my modding skill begins and ends with once changing the attributes of the Pyramids and the Parthenon. So I hope no one was looking at me and coughing expectantly.
But I swallowed hard and started poking around the files to see what I could learn/figure out.
And before anyone asks, yes, I made a copy of RFC and worked on that instead of hacking around with Rhye's stuff.
Anyway, glory glory hallelujah, I did manage to change the Mayan's starting location, and played for five turns, and nothing blew up. I'm gonna have to fiddle further with the defined core areas, though. When I spawned, the Chinese city of Sanshan, just east of the Liaodong peninsula, had me sealed up in the Korean peninsula, making it impossible to move out without an Open Borders agreement. Also, I spawned at war with Japan
Next up: figuring out how to change starting units and techs. Then maybe I'll move on to figuring out how to change city names. Also, leader name. Any hints as to where that info is housed would be much appreciated by me.
But I swallowed hard and started poking around the files to see what I could learn/figure out.
And before anyone asks, yes, I made a copy of RFC and worked on that instead of hacking around with Rhye's stuff.
Anyway, glory glory hallelujah, I did manage to change the Mayan's starting location, and played for five turns, and nothing blew up. I'm gonna have to fiddle further with the defined core areas, though. When I spawned, the Chinese city of Sanshan, just east of the Liaodong peninsula, had me sealed up in the Korean peninsula, making it impossible to move out without an Open Borders agreement. Also, I spawned at war with Japan
Next up: figuring out how to change starting units and techs. Then maybe I'll move on to figuring out how to change city names. Also, leader name. Any hints as to where that info is housed would be much appreciated by me.
To change the starting location what file/s did you edit?
The way to change the city names is to go to the CityNameManager.py file. This file lays out all of the city locations and their names for each civilization in a grid pattern. To test it out it might be a good idea to replace the Mayan cities completely with Chinese ones for the general location.
To edit the leader names you might have to go to he XML file CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml located in the Civilizations folder. I do not know however if a python file overrides this xml document though.
The way to change the city names is to go to the CityNameManager.py file. This file lays out all of the city locations and their names for each civilization in a grid pattern. To test it out it might be a good idea to replace the Mayan cities completely with Chinese ones for the general location.
To edit the leader names you might have to go to he XML file CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml located in the Civilizations folder. I do not know however if a python file overrides this xml document though.
Starting locations: Consts.py. Was that a mistake? Cuz ... it did work. :sweat:
CityNameManager: Yeah, I found that file earlier, and figured it would be the one I had to tackle. Scared the piss out of me to look at it, though.
LeaderHeadInfos: This one has me baffled; I'm not even sure what questions to ask. There doesn't seem to be a lot of modification in that file itself, and I'm assuming that the modifications are to the files that LHI points to. But I can't seem to find where the TXT_KEY_LEADER (etc.) stuff is.
Well, I'll keep poking around ...
Starting locations: Consts.py. Was that a mistake? Cuz ... it did work. :sweat:
CityNameManager: Yeah, I found that file earlier, and figured it would be the one I had to tackle. Scared the piss out of me to look at it, though.
LeaderHeadInfos: This one has me baffled; I'm not even sure what questions to ask. There doesn't seem to be a lot of modification in that file itself, and I'm assuming that the modifications are to the files that LHI points to. But I can't seem to find where the TXT_KEY_LEADER (etc.) stuff is.
Well, I'll keep poking around ...
open CNM with Excel, much easier
Long story, but easier said than done. Thanks for the tip, though.
Right now I'm going to concentrate on the basics. For instance, I've been able to change starting techs and starting units, but Workers don't spawn. I hope this amuses the people who know the way this stuff works.
usi
Shogun
Right now I'm going to concentrate on the basics. For instance, I've been able to change starting techs and starting units, but Workers don't spawn. I hope this amuses the people who know the way this stuff works.
I am glad that modding has started.
For workers, did you check the createStartingWorkers function in RiseAndFall.py?
If you can upload the files you edited so far, other people can easily see what is going on and add codes.
JujuLautre
Deity
Long story, but easier said than done. Thanks for the tip, though.
Right now I'm going to concentrate on the basics. For instance, I've been able to change starting techs and starting units, but Workers don't spawn. I hope this amuses the people who know the way this stuff works.
Have you tried just to search every instance of Maya in the code ?
dragodon64
Noble
Maybe it could be changed in the long run, but couldn't you just make the starting units contain workers for now?
So far, I've only changed two files, and very small stuff at that. In the actual SaveWB file I've changed a line so that it loads the correct the mod. In Consts.py I've changed the starting location and core areas; changed the starting techs; and changed the start units.
I guess I could upload it, though I don't want to be one of the "those people" who get an idea and then fob all the work off on others.
I did find the createStartingWorkers section of RiseAndFall.py, but I don't know how it works, and see no obvious way to tweak it.
EDIT: Hmmm, the forum says the Consts file is an invalid file to upload. Do I gotta do something special?
For game testing issues in the near run, that's what I'll probably do.
I've made a couple of test launches already, to confirm that I've not effed things up after each tweak, and there seems to be roughly a 25% chance of spawning at war with each of the two neighboring powers. (So a little less than a 50% chance of spawning at peace with both, and a significant chance of spawning at war with both.) I'm not getting any extra units when this happens; I don't know if there's something that has to be done there.
There is also a significant chance that Sanshan will be positioned in a way that completely blocks the player from exiting the Korean peninsula (as I noted above). Intuitions from people?
1. Give Korea a significant, though not overly powerful, starting army, so that it can defend itself and/or conquer Sanshan. Conquest of Sanshan, btw, would probably give Korea its second Manchurian city, unless "Manchuria" were (contra most maps) defined as not including the southern coast.
2. Wait until I can figure core areas and starting flips, and count on Sanshan to flip if it is east of the Liaodong peninsula, which is where it has to be if it is to cut off the Koreans from Manchuria.
3. Do nothing; keep core start area small, and just make it an early possible challenge to Korea to get out of their box.
