Haven't looked at the save yet, but I wouldn't have canceled deals with SB, per Liz request. Liz is prolly about to be wiped from the game. But it shouldn't be to bad, hopefully we can reopen ASAP and that he didn't go into refuses to talk nonsense.
KoS2 - There can be only war
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Nice 
I've gotta agree with Mike here. Cancelling deals with SB means he won't talk to us for a while = less trade opportunities. It's not like Liz is going to dislike us for refusing 1 demand, we already get quite a bit of positive from shared war. Luckily this wasn't the case so no harm done.
Sal is going for the barb city with his stack.
3 workers to repair a pasture? either 4 on the same turn, 2 or just 1. Wasted worker turns
Also, the cottage you just finished is useless. We're going to farm over it as soon as Civil Service is in to irrigate the rice!
Unimproved tiles in Uruk being worked and Pig unworked? switch plains forest to pig and get a worker to mine that damn hill. We may also need to improve the spices.
Eridu stagnating?
Can it PLEASE get a lighthouse now?
Ur building a spy? It needs infrastructure to catch up, not units!
I'd still move the Spy to Cheju. We're not going to have enough EP to steal MC in 10 turns anyway unless we up the EP slider.
We can trade for Calendar.. gives more happiness and more resources to trade.
In general: our food surplus stinks. We have the ability to grow a lot and have more powerful cities but we're stuck working low food tiles. Grow! Grow! Grow!
Cottages are overrated...
1. kossin - UP!
2. Stochastic - On deck
3. mjg5591
4. cripp7
5. Meerk
6. The Simple Mind - Just played
I'll plan something more precise in the next day and play on Monday perhaps. Also give time to team for suggestions.
I've gotta agree with Mike here. Cancelling deals with SB means he won't talk to us for a while = less trade opportunities. It's not like Liz is going to dislike us for refusing 1 demand, we already get quite a bit of positive from shared war. Luckily this wasn't the case so no harm done.
Sal is going for the barb city with his stack.
3 workers to repair a pasture? either 4 on the same turn, 2 or just 1. Wasted worker turns
Also, the cottage you just finished is useless. We're going to farm over it as soon as Civil Service is in to irrigate the rice!Unimproved tiles in Uruk being worked and Pig unworked?
switch plains forest to pig and get a worker to mine that damn hill. We may also need to improve the spices.Eridu stagnating?
Can it PLEASE get a lighthouse now?Ur building a spy?
It needs infrastructure to catch up, not units!I'd still move the Spy to Cheju. We're not going to have enough EP to steal MC in 10 turns anyway unless we up the EP slider.
We can trade for Calendar.. gives more happiness and more resources to trade.
In general: our food surplus stinks. We have the ability to grow a lot and have more powerful cities but we're stuck working low food tiles. Grow! Grow! Grow!
Cottages are overrated...
1. kossin - UP!
2. Stochastic - On deck
3. mjg5591
4. cripp7
5. Meerk
6. The Simple Mind - Just played
I'll plan something more precise in the next day and play on Monday perhaps. Also give time to team for suggestions.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
I also think the spy would be better placed in either Chenju or Hyangyang.
I agree with this, and the comment about spreading irrigation made me think about where we will want to build farms for Ur and Ulundi. That needs knowledge about specialisation, and I think a few of our conflicting building and improvement choices have come from lack of explicit specialisation. So I think we should decide on that before the next set and then post signs on each city to remind us. Here are my thoughts, please comment on my choice of specialisation as that is something that I need to work on in my own play.
Ulundi and Ur would both make good cottage cities or GP farms.
--Ur has 8 cottagable tiles.
--Assuming we dont work the plains pre biology, Ulundi has 9 cottagable tiles pre biology + the dye and the pig will let it work the hills for some hammers (the iron will help there too
)
--Therefore I think that Ur should be the GP farm and Ulundi the cottage country. If Ur is farmed (or plantationed) over it will have +9 food pre biology for 4 specialists. That isn't that hot, but I think it is the best option we have for now.
Eridu and Uruk arent really stupendous in any role due to terrain constraints, but eventually they will be OK commerce cities when they work all the coastal tiles.
--Uruk could be a decent unit pump if we build Maoi in it (+12 hammers when all coastal tiles worked)
--Eridu will want at least one more farm to irrigate the wheat, that would add +1 food, which would allow it to work the plains as a third cottage. I want to workshop it to take advantage of the settled GG, but it doesn't have the food for that pre-biology.
Due to lack of food Lagash is really just a filler city, we probably should just build units in it for now despite the gold that is tempts the construction of multipliers. Besides, my current division of labour has need of more military cities (especially in permanent war setting
)
Eridu is, yet again, a low quality commerce city when it is working all ocean tiles, it doesnt really have the hammers for anything else, and we dont have enough land tiles to workshop it up.
What do people think? What major blunders have I made?
I think we've got 3 right now, with one more in the queue. I'm working on a sensible list of builds for WE and cats in our city that will take result in all our units arriving in a decent amount of time, I'm pretty sure we should be able to take out Shaka in the next set. WE have >59% combat odds un promoted right now!
I agree with this, and the comment about spreading irrigation made me think about where we will want to build farms for Ur and Ulundi. That needs knowledge about specialisation, and I think a few of our conflicting building and improvement choices have come from lack of explicit specialisation. So I think we should decide on that before the next set and then post signs on each city to remind us. Here are my thoughts, please comment on my choice of specialisation as that is something that I need to work on in my own play.
Ulundi and Ur would both make good cottage cities or GP farms.
--Ur has 8 cottagable tiles.
--Assuming we dont work the plains pre biology, Ulundi has 9 cottagable tiles pre biology + the dye and the pig will let it work the hills for some hammers (the iron will help there too
)--Therefore I think that Ur should be the GP farm and Ulundi the cottage country. If Ur is farmed (or plantationed) over it will have +9 food pre biology for 4 specialists. That isn't that hot, but I think it is the best option we have for now.
Eridu and Uruk arent really stupendous in any role due to terrain constraints, but eventually they will be OK commerce cities when they work all the coastal tiles.
--Uruk could be a decent unit pump if we build Maoi in it (+12 hammers when all coastal tiles worked)
--Eridu will want at least one more farm to irrigate the wheat, that would add +1 food, which would allow it to work the plains as a third cottage. I want to workshop it to take advantage of the settled GG, but it doesn't have the food for that pre-biology.
Due to lack of food Lagash is really just a filler city, we probably should just build units in it for now despite the gold that is tempts the construction of multipliers. Besides, my current division of labour has need of more military cities (especially in permanent war setting
)Eridu is, yet again, a low quality commerce city when it is working all ocean tiles, it doesnt really have the hammers for anything else, and we dont have enough land tiles to workshop it up.
What do people think? What major blunders have I made?
I think we've got 3 right now, with one more in the queue. I'm working on a sensible list of builds for WE and cats in our city that will take result in all our units arriving in a decent amount of time, I'm pretty sure we should be able to take out Shaka in the next set. WE have >59% combat odds un promoted right now!
Once defenses are out, we don't need that many catapults to kill Shaka's archers. 5 pults should be enough to do the job I'd say. We just need to get a few swords/vultures to take it then.
EDIT: plan coming tomorrow morning or very unlikely later tonight. Will play Monday night or early Tuesday.
EDIT: plan coming tomorrow morning or very unlikely later tonight. Will play Monday night or early Tuesday.
Stochastic
Prince
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I agree about the catapults, we could probably get away with 5-6 if they start bombardment before we are ready to attack.
I disagree about the swords though, I think that WE and vultures will be more flexible in the long run while swords will be relegated to military police while we are on the defensive. Finally I don't think the extra 10% attack from the swordsmen will be that important if most of our shock troops are elephants.
So with that in mind here's an idea of building up a force that will (assuming I calculated the turns correctly) be able to take Ulundi on the 15th turn of the next set. It involves building only units in all cities except Ur, so Eridu would have to stagnate for another 10 turns before even starting on a lighthouse. I know you really want to build one, and I agree that it should be the next building built, but I think taking out Shaka should have an even higher priority, the sooner we can work the rich tiles around Ulundi the better.
Kish Cat in 6 -->Cat in 6 (arrives 15 turns after inherited)
Lagash WE in 5--> WE in 5 (arrives 13 turns after inherited)
Eridu cat in 2-->WE in 4 -->WE in 4 (arrives 14 turns after inherited)
Uruk WE in 4--> WE in 4 (arrives 15 turns after inherited)
Total force =6 cats, 7WEs and the current choke force (2 vultures + archers). Personally I think that will be able to take Shaka's current stack out. The stack is quite WE heavy, but fortunately Shaka can't build spears and the WE will be very helpful as a counter attack force against Saladin's historically cavalry heavy stacks.
I disagree about the swords though, I think that WE and vultures will be more flexible in the long run while swords will be relegated to military police while we are on the defensive. Finally I don't think the extra 10% attack from the swordsmen will be that important if most of our shock troops are elephants.
So with that in mind here's an idea of building up a force that will (assuming I calculated the turns correctly) be able to take Ulundi on the 15th turn of the next set. It involves building only units in all cities except Ur, so Eridu would have to stagnate for another 10 turns before even starting on a lighthouse. I know you really want to build one, and I agree that it should be the next building built, but I think taking out Shaka should have an even higher priority, the sooner we can work the rich tiles around Ulundi the better.
Kish Cat in 6 -->Cat in 6 (arrives 15 turns after inherited)
Lagash WE in 5--> WE in 5 (arrives 13 turns after inherited)
Eridu cat in 2-->WE in 4 -->WE in 4 (arrives 14 turns after inherited)
Uruk WE in 4--> WE in 4 (arrives 15 turns after inherited)
Total force =6 cats, 7WEs and the current choke force (2 vultures + archers). Personally I think that will be able to take Shaka's current stack out. The stack is quite WE heavy, but fortunately Shaka can't build spears and the WE will be very helpful as a counter attack force against Saladin's historically cavalry heavy stacks.
The idea about swords is they cost a lot less. Once catapults are done doing their damage, 2 swords cost the same as 1 WE and do twice the damage... WEs will be great to break through LBs true(and stack defense) but for Shaka we won't see that much.
A lighthouse will be fast, add commerce, and allow Eridu to work more tiles. Odds are I may be whipping a bit to get things in faster
I'll make a plan in an hour or so, but your unit numbers look good though.
A lighthouse will be fast, add commerce, and allow Eridu to work more tiles. Odds are I may be whipping a bit to get things in faster
I'll make a plan in an hour or so, but your unit numbers look good though.
Stochastic
Prince
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The idea about swords is they cost a lot less. Once catapults are done doing their damage, 2 swords cost the same as 1 WE and do twice the damage... WEs will be great to break through LBs true(and stack defense) but for Shaka we won't see that much.
A lighthouse will be fast, add commerce, and allow Eridu to work more tiles. Odds are I may be whipping a bit to get things in faster
I'll make a plan in an hour or so, but your unit numbers look good though.
Good point about the lighthouse, I always forget about explicitly planning on using whip overflow to speed unit construction.
Do you know how unit cost is linked to unit number? I guess I'm a bit worried that building a bunch of swords and then keeping them on ice while we wait to attack the next target will bankrupt us.
What are LBs?Uruk->grow as I had proposed. Switch WE to catapult since it has a settled GG. It's better to build WEs in cities without a GG (build a stable).
Eridu->queue lighthouse grow/whip after.
Ur-> swords
Lagash-> swords
Research -> 0% until we have enough for CS
Trades -> Calendar <-> CoL (I'll put 1 turn of 0% research into it to avoid trading gold)
Workers-> Bananas, Spice, hill in Uruk, couple more farms here and there to grow faster.
Not sure I can kill Shaka but the stack should be ready by my end set. (He will have ~10 archers in all).
LBs = LongBows
Eridu->queue lighthouse grow/whip after.
Ur-> swords
Lagash-> swords
Research -> 0% until we have enough for CS
Trades -> Calendar <-> CoL (I'll put 1 turn of 0% research into it to avoid trading gold)
Workers-> Bananas, Spice, hill in Uruk, couple more farms here and there to grow faster.
Not sure I can kill Shaka but the stack should be ready by my end set. (He will have ~10 archers in all).
LBs = LongBows
Ok, played the round. A bit longer than 10 turns but it was for a good cause 
Shaka attacks our Spear on the forest...
I assigned Uruk to finish its market as it would grow unhappy by working the pigs. Whipped it into a settler.
Trade Calendar as proposed on next turn.
Whip>worker (we only have 5 for 4 cities and with Calendar and CS about to come in, we'll want more).
Gold trade with SB.
Saladin sends an unfortunate HA on our cow...
Finally, Eridu can grow and whip.
Boudica does the same as Saladin...
Bad news. SB and Boudica have managed to kill off Elizabeth. SB has grown pretty strong because of this. It also means Boudica is going to start sending more units our way.
I moved the Spy to Cheju and after he acquired 50% discount, attempt to steal Metal Casting...
I had to delete our exploring workboat... don't want to give Boudi free XP eh? (that's one of her galleys)
I settled one of the island cities. It pays for itself and provides us with good trade routes for our empire. Uruk also produced a workboat which is ready to improve the clams when borders expand.
Sal sends a mounted-only stack... they all died with no loss on our part.
Re-negotiate clam deal for 1 extra gpt.
And CS is in!
I switch to Bureaucracy immediately of course...
And after losing 2 catapults, Ulundi is ours!
My job is done, time to hand over the save!
Our cities... forges queued up in a lot of places. Some markers for improvements have been added as well.
Techs - Feudalism is spread around.
Cities overview
Foreign Advisor...
Going ahead: we don't need to research down the Engineering line, the AI will do that for us. Let's head to Liberalism and backfill. In any case, Elephants and enough catapults can kill anything.
Wars left.
Us vs. Saladin
Us vs. Boudica
Saladin vs. Boudica
WK vs. SB
Saladin vs. SB
SB is getting big and he could be trouble for WK. I suggest we keep an eye out for any of his stacks and close borders if any big enough shows up.
Our natural target next has to be Boudica. Saladin has been targeting us from 4000BC and couldn't mount any potent offensive. Boudi OTOH will be a little bit more difficult now and she has LBs thanks to WK.
Paper should let us trade maps to get a better view of the land. Otherwise, things are looking good.
1. kossin - Just played
2. Stochastic - UP!
3. mjg5591 - On deck
4. cripp7
5. Meerk
6. The Simple Mind
Shaka attacks our Spear on the forest...
Spoiler :
I assigned Uruk to finish its market as it would grow unhappy by working the pigs. Whipped it into a settler.
Trade Calendar as proposed on next turn.
Spoiler :
Whip>worker (we only have 5 for 4 cities and with Calendar and CS about to come in, we'll want more).
Spoiler :
Gold trade with SB.
Spoiler :
Saladin sends an unfortunate HA on our cow...
Spoiler :
Finally, Eridu can grow and whip.
Spoiler :
Boudica does the same as Saladin...
Spoiler :
Bad news. SB and Boudica have managed to kill off Elizabeth. SB has grown pretty strong because of this. It also means Boudica is going to start sending more units our way.
Spoiler :
I moved the Spy to Cheju and after he acquired 50% discount, attempt to steal Metal Casting...
Spoiler :
I had to delete our exploring workboat... don't want to give Boudi free XP eh? (that's one of her galleys)
Spoiler :
I settled one of the island cities. It pays for itself and provides us with good trade routes for our empire. Uruk also produced a workboat which is ready to improve the clams when borders expand.
Spoiler :
Sal sends a mounted-only stack... they all died with no loss on our part.
Spoiler :
Re-negotiate clam deal for 1 extra gpt.
Spoiler :
And CS is in!
Spoiler :
I switch to Bureaucracy immediately of course...
Spoiler :
And after losing 2 catapults, Ulundi is ours!
Spoiler :
My job is done, time to hand over the save!
Our cities... forges queued up in a lot of places. Some markers for improvements have been added as well.
Spoiler :
Techs - Feudalism is spread around.
Spoiler :
Cities overview
Spoiler :
Foreign Advisor...
Spoiler :
Going ahead: we don't need to research down the Engineering line, the AI will do that for us. Let's head to Liberalism and backfill. In any case, Elephants and enough catapults can kill anything.
Wars left.
Us vs. Saladin
Us vs. Boudica
Saladin vs. Boudica
WK vs. SB
Saladin vs. SB
SB is getting big and he could be trouble for WK. I suggest we keep an eye out for any of his stacks and close borders if any big enough shows up.
Our natural target next has to be Boudica. Saladin has been targeting us from 4000BC and couldn't mount any potent offensive. Boudi OTOH will be a little bit more difficult now and she has LBs thanks to WK.
Paper should let us trade maps to get a better view of the land. Otherwise, things are looking good.
1. kossin - Just played
2. Stochastic - UP!
3. mjg5591 - On deck
4. cripp7
5. Meerk
6. The Simple Mind
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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- 411
Wow, how the civs fall! Nice set there, though its a shame the English couldnt hold off a bit longer. I guess they were doing fairly well for 2vs1.
Techs
Question regarding the tech path. Were queued for Literature, but were talking about going for paper. Were you thinking Literature first for Heroic Epic and maybe a Great Library run, or was that a place holder?
Builds
Is the Colossus still available? Do we want to try for it or at least get failure cash? If so I assume the best bet is build it in Uruk. If we do go for it, I think Ill two pop whip the forge next turn to get it in before the forest chop so that those hammers go through the copper and forge multipliers.
Generally Ill try to 2 pop whip the forges for maximum hammer overflow.
In several cities we are working Coastal tiles over Grass Mines. Generally Id move one coastal tile to a Mine, the growth usually only goes down by one turn, and the construction of forges will be sped up. Was there a reason to not do that?
Uruk
Probably a few units next (unless Colossus run is on), while it is unhealthy, we'll be getting pigs and clam, and it is near the happy cap anyways.
Eridu.
Switch one coastal tile to a grass mine. Growth goes to 4 turns instead of 3 but forge finishes in 8 rather than 11. Then colosseum to help with happy cap. Then some units, probably WE/cats.
Kish
Switch Coastal for Grass Mine, growth goes from 2 to 3, forge goes from 18 to 12 turns. Then probably aqueduct, but maybe an archer or two for Ulundi and Ur.
Ur
Finish forge then Ziggurat. Reason being we are still in 0% more often than 100% so the reduced maintenance will provide more commerce in the short term than the library.
Lagash
After WE go for a forge, it will be helped along by forest chops as the farms get built.
Ulundi
Granary then forge. Ill get those three captured workers to pre-chop the forests and then road the pigs while waiting for Ulundi to come out of revolt.
Units
Ill send the second spy to scout out Boudicas current position. We dont really have the eps points right now to steal much from WK, Ill try to get Monotheism from him though. (Aesthetics would be preferred, but I doubt well have the points)
Trades
I dont see any favourable trades tech wise right now, but Ill keep an eye out for good trades for machinery. Also for openings for gold with WK or SB
General thoughts:
Should we spend the coming GS for a golden age to revolt to a religion and Organised Religion? We dont really need to worry about diplo penalties for religion, and the extra building speed would probably be helpful in getting in the infrastructure.
Will Nibru be the Maoi location? I cant see a better spot in terms of total hammer benefit
Around Ur, why did we mine the grass hills away from the river first? We lost a commerce for a bunch of turns by doing that
Did anyone look at my earlier comments regarding city specialisation? Did they follow what everyone else is thinking?
Techs
Question regarding the tech path. Were queued for Literature, but were talking about going for paper. Were you thinking Literature first for Heroic Epic and maybe a Great Library run, or was that a place holder?
Builds
Is the Colossus still available? Do we want to try for it or at least get failure cash? If so I assume the best bet is build it in Uruk. If we do go for it, I think Ill two pop whip the forge next turn to get it in before the forest chop so that those hammers go through the copper and forge multipliers.
Generally Ill try to 2 pop whip the forges for maximum hammer overflow.
In several cities we are working Coastal tiles over Grass Mines. Generally Id move one coastal tile to a Mine, the growth usually only goes down by one turn, and the construction of forges will be sped up. Was there a reason to not do that?
Uruk
Probably a few units next (unless Colossus run is on), while it is unhealthy, we'll be getting pigs and clam, and it is near the happy cap anyways.
Eridu.
Switch one coastal tile to a grass mine. Growth goes to 4 turns instead of 3 but forge finishes in 8 rather than 11. Then colosseum to help with happy cap. Then some units, probably WE/cats.
Kish
Switch Coastal for Grass Mine, growth goes from 2 to 3, forge goes from 18 to 12 turns. Then probably aqueduct, but maybe an archer or two for Ulundi and Ur.
Ur
Finish forge then Ziggurat. Reason being we are still in 0% more often than 100% so the reduced maintenance will provide more commerce in the short term than the library.
Lagash
After WE go for a forge, it will be helped along by forest chops as the farms get built.
Ulundi
Granary then forge. Ill get those three captured workers to pre-chop the forests and then road the pigs while waiting for Ulundi to come out of revolt.
Units
Ill send the second spy to scout out Boudicas current position. We dont really have the eps points right now to steal much from WK, Ill try to get Monotheism from him though. (Aesthetics would be preferred, but I doubt well have the points)
Trades
I dont see any favourable trades tech wise right now, but Ill keep an eye out for good trades for machinery. Also for openings for gold with WK or SB
General thoughts:
Should we spend the coming GS for a golden age to revolt to a religion and Organised Religion? We dont really need to worry about diplo penalties for religion, and the extra building speed would probably be helpful in getting in the infrastructure.
Will Nibru be the Maoi location? I cant see a better spot in terms of total hammer benefit
Around Ur, why did we mine the grass hills away from the river first? We lost a commerce for a bunch of turns by doing that
Did anyone look at my earlier comments regarding city specialisation? Did they follow what everyone else is thinking?
Techs:
I was fooling around with the save to see research time and forgot to switch to Paper before saving.
Builds:
Colossus is gone to Sal before we could even start it.
Whipping has got to need a reason to be! Don't 2-whip just because you're used to. If there are other good tiles to be worked, no happy cap problem and no immediate need, grow. Bigger cities are better cities!
Uruk: It has an Academy so there's no reason to stagnate it. Mix happy/units and grow on coast. We can also consider building Moai here perhaps.
Eridu: it's been stagnating for too long, I want to grow it as fast as possible. Granted 1 turn isn't much difference though.
Ur: Forge to whip coast tiles/farms was the idea I had in mind... Economy is safe for now and 3gpt is marginal at best.
Lagash: sounds good. Once the city can grow the forge will actually be worth something
Monotheism: useless, we're not running a religion and doing so would be a nuisance for trading purposes. Wait for Aesthetics.
Trades: agree... nothing we need right now. The next useful thing is Engineering although if CS becomes known by an AI, consider trading it so we don't lose an opportunity.
GS->No. Academy in Ulundi.
Moai: Nibru could work but I was seeing it more as a commerce city. In any case, boats won't be that useful on this map and the micro involved in shipping out units would be a pain...
Specialization:
Uruk can stay the GP farm, it has enough food... although 2 GS isn't exactly a lot granted. We could also run 2 merchants which would allow to run 100% slider for a while...
Ur is better off with cottages, not enough food for specialists.
I was fooling around with the save to see research time and forgot to switch to Paper before saving.
Builds:
Colossus is gone to Sal before we could even start it.
Whipping has got to need a reason to be! Don't 2-whip just because you're used to. If there are other good tiles to be worked, no happy cap problem and no immediate need, grow. Bigger cities are better cities!
Uruk: It has an Academy so there's no reason to stagnate it. Mix happy/units and grow on coast. We can also consider building Moai here perhaps.
Eridu: it's been stagnating for too long, I want to grow it as fast as possible. Granted 1 turn isn't much difference though.
Ur: Forge to whip coast tiles/farms was the idea I had in mind... Economy is safe for now and 3gpt is marginal at best.
Lagash: sounds good. Once the city can grow the forge will actually be worth something
Monotheism: useless, we're not running a religion and doing so would be a nuisance for trading purposes. Wait for Aesthetics.
Trades: agree... nothing we need right now. The next useful thing is Engineering although if CS becomes known by an AI, consider trading it so we don't lose an opportunity.
GS->No. Academy in Ulundi.
Moai: Nibru could work but I was seeing it more as a commerce city. In any case, boats won't be that useful on this map and the micro involved in shipping out units would be a pain...
Specialization:
Uruk can stay the GP farm, it has enough food... although 2 GS isn't exactly a lot granted. We could also run 2 merchants which would allow to run 100% slider for a while...
Ur is better off with cottages, not enough food for specialists.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
All right, this is an official "got it" because I forgot to say that last time. I will play in ~24hrs to give everyone else some time to comment.
OK, I'll switch to paper when I start then.
Ok, I guess that isn't going to happen then. I was thinking of whipping in cities where there are some coastal tiles being worked. I don't consider those "good tiles," does anybody object to whipping when the only tiles lost are coastal/ocean?
Right, I thought that was the plan. That is why I only suggested switching one coastal tile.
Right, the use for a GA was just if we went for organised religion. I still think that getting a religion might be useful. WK isn't that fanatical (if I remember correctly), and I find that generally almost any civic is better than the default.
Ok, I was just going by total hammers given for a fastest return rate. I don't think I'll get to building it in any city in my set anyways.
Well if we farmed all of Ur I think it would have more food surplus than Uruk, but I can see trading more cottages for less GPs as being an equally useful partition if we aren't planning on being particularly dependent on GPs.
Hopefully we can purloin a nice place for GP from Boudica!
OK, I'll switch to paper when I start then.
Ok, I guess that isn't going to happen then
. I was thinking of whipping in cities where there are some coastal tiles being worked. I don't consider those "good tiles," does anybody object to whipping when the only tiles lost are coastal/ocean?Right, I thought that was the plan. That is why I only suggested switching one coastal tile.
So would you say build units in Ur after a barracks? I figure 3gpt is always useful, and the eps points are useful too.
Right, the use for a GA was just if we went for organised religion. I still think that getting a religion might be useful. WK isn't that fanatical (if I remember correctly), and I find that generally almost any civic is better than the default.
Ok, I was just going by total hammers given for a fastest return rate. I don't think I'll get to building it in any city in my set anyways.
Well if we farmed all of Ur I think it would have more food surplus than Uruk, but I can see trading more cottages for less GPs as being an equally useful partition if we aren't planning on being particularly dependent on GPs.
Hopefully we can purloin a nice place for GP from Boudica!
Whipping ocean is fine, it's like an unimproved riverside grassland. Whipping coast I usually think twice about but it's usually fine too. The most important after whipping is to focus on food rather than mines.
Running scientists off farms is a bad investment. The city needs to be big to run a few... GP farms usually have 2+ strong (5+) food tiles which allow then to run 5+ specialists using only those 2 tiles.
Second thought regarding GS: maybe we should consider bulbing Education rather than an Academy?
Ur: No units there I think. But Library, Market(maybe after), University and then Ziggurat.
We'll want to get Oxford up as fast as we can so science takes off and we leave these fools in the dust!
Running scientists off farms is a bad investment. The city needs to be big to run a few... GP farms usually have 2+ strong (5+) food tiles which allow then to run 5+ specialists using only those 2 tiles.
Second thought regarding GS: maybe we should consider bulbing Education rather than an Academy?
Ur: No units there I think. But Library, Market(maybe after), University and then Ziggurat.
We'll want to get Oxford up as fast as we can so science takes off and we leave these fools in the dust!
I think we need to get some units to Ur. With the celts settling up to our borders, I expect to see alot of units coming from Boudica. Also Boudica is only at war with us.
Only good thing I see about the SB situation is that its the only Civ WK is at war with. Although SB is at war with Sal seems Sal will send units to us before heading towards SB.
Nice job getting Ulundi finally. This should hopefully be a nice commerece city.
I haven't really looked to deep into the save. Real life has been real busy lately. But should calm down in next day or 2.
Stoch and Kossin's plan looks ok to me, but i'll look at save tomorrow when I have some more time.
Real nice set Kossin.
Only good thing I see about the SB situation is that its the only Civ WK is at war with. Although SB is at war with Sal seems Sal will send units to us before heading towards SB.
Nice job getting Ulundi finally. This should hopefully be a nice commerece city.
I haven't really looked to deep into the save. Real life has been real busy lately. But should calm down in next day or 2.
Stoch and Kossin's plan looks ok to me, but i'll look at save tomorrow when I have some more time.
Real nice set Kossin.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Ok, playing now (much later than expected 
) But the show must go on!
) But the show must go on!Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Here comes the "wall-o-text"TM!
Inherited turn 164. Will play 10 turns to GS.
Turn 165.
Turn 166
Turn 167
Turn 168
IBTs
Turn 169
Turn 170
Turn 171
Turn 172
Turn 173
Turn 174
IBTs
Comments:
should probably attack the BBB#1&2 stack with the catapult
Thats all for now, time for sleeps.
Inherited turn 164. Will play 10 turns to GS.
- Switch to Paper
- Switch one coastal in Kish, Ur, and Eridu to a grass hill. Generally cuts more than 4 turns off of the forges, but only adds one turn to growth time.
- Delete a few signs. I think they were a good idea to help pass ideas along to me, but now they are clogging up my vision.
Turn 165.
- Boudica has a Gallic Warrior nearby Kish, Move the high level Vulture onto the hill to protect and prevent the GW from getting big defense bonus.
- Saladin moved two HAs right next to Ulundi, that puts a bit of a cramp on my plans for the workers, I was going to start pre-chopping some trees on the hill, but I dont have the move points to kill them off right now, so the Workers will have to chop some other trees.
- Send an unpromoted catapult to Ur to help with defense. The extra unit might be what keeps it, or the collateral could kill a stacks effectiveness
- I try to beg 30gold from Sitting Bull, but hes not having any of it. Does anyone know how the mechanics for gold begging works?
- I consider promoting one Vulture in Ulundi to a medic, but decide to keep the promotion available.
Turn 166
- IBTs Saladin attacked Ulundi with his two HAs, our War Elephant squashed them all. Your beard is weighing you down Saladin! Next time bring an elf! Joking aside though, the Ele only had 0.6 health left after dealing with 2 combat II HAs, so that was close.
- Hanging Gardens BIFL
- Uruk finishes forge, start on vulture for Ur defense.
- Send the second spy at Chenju towards Boudica to scout. Hopefully the first one will live undetected. Next turn the first spy will be at 50%, if it doesnt look like we can steal anything for a while Ill move it home for a few turns to reduce the chance of capture.
Turn 167
- IBTs
- Kishs water supply is poisoned It is now at -3 food per turn, so I switch a grass mine to a coast to slow the bleed.
Spoiler : - Saladin moved an HA to the copper in Lagashs BFC. I could attack with a Spear at 77% combat odds, but we werent working it, are not going to work it anytime soon, and have a spare copper, so I decide against attacking. Assuming the HA pillages I will have a WE built in Lagash in time to deal with the HA if it moves deeper in our territory.
- Chenju Spy at -50% is paying 0.525 of the base cost. Cheapest tech steal from WK is 250eps points and we are at 86 eps points. We need more than 131 eps points to steal a tech. I see Henju is slightly cheaper so I move the spy there as we wait for the eps points to accumulate.
- Switch tile in Eridu from plains mine to coast to get forge at same time as growth to avoid unhappy.
- Successfully beg 40 gold from WK . He had 100 gold, but I doubted he would part with that much.
Turn 168
IBTs
- Saladin does not pillage but moves onto the cow. That forces my hand, I kill the HA with the spear at 77% odds.
- Uruk Finishes Vulture, WE in 2 to help with defense of Ur as well. I juggle the tiles so that it is still WE in 2 but growth in 4 instead of 7.
- Niribus border pops so I plunk down the WB for clam. The extra health stagnates Kish.
- Also we finish the sugar plantation. I trade incense to Sitting Bull for 2gpt, we can cancel it before our cities need the extra happy.
- Misclicked a worker next to the Gallic Warrior
. No units can make it in time, so I reload from the auto save made by my trade with SB. I hope that is kosher? 
- I notice that Saladin has sent an HA closer to Kish, so I send a 9xp spear to stand on a hill with the vulture.
Spoiler : - I also try to beg 50 gold and then 20 gold from SB, but even though hes got 120, he looks like hes swallowed a lemon at the mearest mention of donating some cash to a poor backward civ.
Turn 169
- Lagash finishes a WE, forge in 15 turns. When we get some farms in it will have many more hammers.
- Ulundi is out of rebellion. I finish the chops on the hill and grass but only get 30 hammers each. Shouldnt we get 44 hammers? Or is that my generally epic speed talking? Anyway, granary in 1 turn now.
- Juggle Tiles in Uruk to finish WE and Forge at the same time. At that point will be at happy cap, so will work some merchants and maybe build a settler.
- Saladin moves HA to hill NE of my hill defense, I send a fresh WE from Lagash down to corner it.
Turn 170
- IBTs Saladin attacks my spear and wins! Im not sure what the odds were for that, but they must have been long. I had a combat II spear on a hill with 5% fortify, he had a combat II HA.
- Worse news, Saladin has brought in a small stack with a catapult to threaten Kish further. Spoiler :
- Im going to have to retreat the Vulture and hope that Boudicas warrior stays put.
- I attack the wounded HA with the elephant and then retreat the phant towards Lagash.
- I move my spy towards Boudica, and see trouble...
Spoiler : - I slot a spear in Ur before the Forge. I reconfigure the tiles so that Ur grows next turn as I will have to whip it, Big Bad B (aka BBB) will arrive in 3 turns, the spear in 5 under natural growth.
- I also re-prioritise the workers by Ulundi to build a road that will let the elephant get to Ur faster. Spoiler :
- At this point Im wishing Id promoted the Vulture to medic b/c the Elephant could still do with one turn of healing.
- We now have enough gold to 100% paper! Paper in 4 at -91gpt.
Turn 171
- IBTs Saladin moves onto the much fought over mine NE of Kish and BBB moves closer to Ur.
- WK finishes the SP and offers this deal
Spoiler : - I check the tech screen, Civil Service is still in monopoly, so I dont go for it.
- Uruk finishes the WE, it is still 3 turns away from the GS (dont want to pollute the pool so close), so I change my plan for turning on the merchant specialists and train another WE in 3 turns. After that Id suggest an aqueduct to ease the unhealthy so that more specialists can be run.
- I strongly consider attacking Saladins stack with the WE first (kills the Axe) then with spears, but decide against it as the WE combat odds are a bit risky and the last unit would be a chariot I would have to attack with a vulture.
Turn 172
- IBTs, Saladin attacks Eridu and...
Spoiler : - No unit loss to our brave forces. One HA retreated to the Gallic Warrior, so I am unable to destroy it for now.
- Also, another stack from BBB comes out of the fog...
Spoiler : - I whip the spear in Ur. BBBs first stack is now in the BFC...
- I sent a vulture from Ulundi towards Ur, it should arrive just before the second stack, which has two Gallic Warriors.
- I renegotiate the clam deal with WK for one more gpt. Now 5gpt.
- Eridu finished the forge, start on archer, will need a colosseum after to keep above the happy cap.
Turn 173
- IBTs, Saladins HA pillages a hamlet next to Kish, I probably should have protected it with a spear.
- Revenge will come at the hand of our pointy sticks!
- Finish Spear in Ur, queue a wall with the intention of whipping next turn. Not this turn because most of the defense will come from the elephant which wont benefit from it. That saves a 2 pop whip.
- WK moved a galley towards us over the past few turns, it might have a settler, might not.
- OK. Deep breath, Im confident our units will be able to take out BBB#1, provided even below par RNG. *presses enter*
Turn 174
IBTs
- Ok, so BBB#1 thoughtfully waited for BBB#2 to show up to the party, in the mean time it just stayed to enjoy the sight of mines collapsing and large rocks crashing into our fortifications..
- Paper is in, people are willing to buy our fancy maps.
Comments:
- Should whip the wall in Ur.
- The workers around Ulundi are working on the chops for the forge, after that farms are next.
- Here is a new configuration for Uruk, gets more GPPs and merchants will be useful to get more research as we up the slider.
Spoiler : - I think it should either build a settler or an aqueduct. Aqueduct will permit one more specialist (merchant or engineer?), settler could go for the second island spot or the norther iron/crab. Team decision needed, but I think it is more likely that WK has a settler on his galley as it is getting closer to us. We wont have to whip the settler as long as we board at the right place.
Spoiler :
- Eridu will want a colosseum after the archer.
should probably attack the BBB#1&2 stack with the catapult
Thats all for now, time for sleeps.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
The save would be nice wouldn't it? 
2am posts are like that...
2am posts are like that...
Nice!
Bribe demands have a 5% chance to decay every turn, if I remember correctly. The 'agreed' best time to wait in-between demands is about 30 turns, more with each refusal. I'll try to dig the post by bestsss, I read it about 2 weeks ago.
EDIT: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8729629&postcount=336... the next few following posts also discuss the issue.
No more archers... we want to build an offensive stack that will at the same time act as city garrison. When BBB sacs a stack is a sign for us to move in usually and take a city. Heal, rinse and repeat. Catapults and Eles mainly. Throw in some Vultures/Swords/Spears sometimes.
I'd leave 1 Ele in Lagash and 1 in Kish for future Sal stacks.
Keep in mind Sal will field Camels in the not-so-distant future
Cities
Uruk - Settler then Aqueduct for certain. I'd run an extra Merchant. 50/50 merchant/scientist at this point is good. Consider changing plains hill for coast, it gains 2 turns on growth.
Eridu - colosseum (altern happy faces/units)
Kish - units
Lagash - fine as is. send 2 workers to start their job here
Ur - Whip as marked. It might give us sufficient time to bring in that WE. Catapult suicide... likely wait since BBB won't attack before bringing down the walls
Nibru-whip granary right away. You whip the granary as soon as it's available unless whipped citizens are working food tiles.... which they aren't here.
Ulundi - queue some Culture next. It'd be nice to steal the Dye from WK but I'm not sure how feasible that is. We may want to move the palace here later.
Techs
Bulb Edu? Then finish researching it? I think we're in good shape and don't need military right away. WE will perform as well as Pikes against Knights.
We can always close borders with WK if he keeps shipping settlers. It won't be much commerce(4) once we have our second island city up.
Bribe demands have a 5% chance to decay every turn, if I remember correctly. The 'agreed' best time to wait in-between demands is about 30 turns, more with each refusal. I'll try to dig the post by bestsss, I read it about 2 weeks ago.
EDIT: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8729629&postcount=336... the next few following posts also discuss the issue.
No more archers... we want to build an offensive stack that will at the same time act as city garrison. When BBB sacs a stack is a sign for us to move in usually and take a city. Heal, rinse and repeat. Catapults and Eles mainly. Throw in some Vultures/Swords/Spears sometimes.
I'd leave 1 Ele in Lagash and 1 in Kish for future Sal stacks.
Keep in mind Sal will field Camels in the not-so-distant future
Cities
Uruk - Settler then Aqueduct for certain. I'd run an extra Merchant. 50/50 merchant/scientist at this point is good. Consider changing plains hill for coast, it gains 2 turns on growth.
Eridu - colosseum (altern happy faces/units)
Kish - units
Lagash - fine as is. send 2 workers to start their job here
Ur - Whip as marked. It might give us sufficient time to bring in that WE. Catapult suicide... likely wait since BBB won't attack before bringing down the walls
Nibru-whip granary right away. You whip the granary as soon as it's available unless whipped citizens are working food tiles.... which they aren't here.
Ulundi - queue some Culture next. It'd be nice to steal the Dye from WK but I'm not sure how feasible that is. We may want to move the palace here later.
Techs
Bulb Edu? Then finish researching it? I think we're in good shape and don't need military right away. WE will perform as well as Pikes against Knights.
We can always close borders with WK if he keeps shipping settlers. It won't be much commerce(4) once we have our second island city up.