KoS2 - There can be only war

Hey guys, I found a bit of time to play, but have reached a point that could probably do with some group discussion regarding Civics.

Here is the situation: I got Biol, traded with WK for Astron and Econ (and map). That means I could tech Physics and then keep going for the monopoly techs down that line(SB doesn't have electricity yet) OR I could go for medicine for environmentalism. I figure the other techs are all tradable from monopolies.

So, medicine can be got before the GA ends, do we want to come out of our GA in SP or envr? Personally I lean towards SP because of the massive cash savings, we should be able to keep SB friendly with other gifts/religion.

Oh and I never got a conclusion about Rep vs US. I think Kossin threw US out for consideration, but I feel Rep will be better for us. (Can't buy spaceships, the only thing I could think of that we might want to rush...)

Here is the save for the curious:
 

Attachments

Stick to Rep for now. It looks as if we don't need Environmentalism to keep SB at at least +8 so Corporation then straight for Electricity/Radio. Getting Cristo Redentor would be very nice here.

EDIT: Do some micro and set a few cities to building science rather than their assigned infrastructure so Corporation is done in 1 turn.

EDIT2: You took too many units out of "1st of Saladin", it's in danger of revolting now!
 
OK, first off, it looks like I've screwed up on the whole avoid revolts thing, on the start of turn 335 2nd went korean and both 1st and 4th have revolted once. :blush: So I've let down the team a bit there, but I hope you'll let me chalk it up to inexperiance, I've never been in this sort of cultural situation before, normally I'd "solve" it by declaring on WK next :rolleyes:. With that said, everything else went well, kept building multipliers in BBB's ex-land and teching at an unheard of rate, as well as getting~4-5 hindu spreads and ~5-6 Jewish spreads, so here is the report.

Inherited turn
  • Saladin's troops put up a furious defense, killing 3 cannons, one at 80% odds and a rifle at 98% odds!
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-rifleloss-325.jpg

    But we have just enough forces to capture the city and the Arabian empire is no more!
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-Najran-325.jpg
  • I blame Monty for being confused that he isn't fighting germans but Arabs.
  • The Capture of Najran.
  • I check out our finance and it turns out that we are paying 0 for troops, so I don't disband any.
  • I throw down a bunch of specialists in Uruk to get the GP in 1 turn. I decide against going for all merchants because running 3 scientists cuts Medicine by a turn.


Turn 236
  • We get an AP vote for controller, it isn't hard to say who we'll vote for.
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-AP-vote-326.jpg
  • I start Ur on a bank
  • Pop a GA on our GA and revolt to SP,OR city maintenance goes from 192- to 204. But cash goes from -256 to -116. Maybe it would have been better to use the GA to culture bomb 1st, but I doubt it.
  • SP means that Duro doesn't need a courthouse, switch to library.

Turn 237
  • As though by divine guidance, our Popehood is unanimous
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-AP-result-327.jpg
  • We get a crappy -1 event with SB.
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-SB-minus-327.jpg

    You know, we didn't go into SP for nothing... off with their heads! :p
  • SB has Pyong, I close borders but it might be too late already...
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-SB-stack-327.jpg
  • WK doesn't have much left, so I decide to gift our stuff to him and see how he does.
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-WK-defence.jpg
    I also queue up 2 jewish and 2 hidu preachers.

Turn 238
  • Gifting Monty and Hanz to WK sets of a revolt in 2nd in line as they no longer fear the two terrors. Well not literally, they were in 1st, but it makes for a good story. Come on you guys, can't you see the writing on the wall?
  • I also finish chain farming to Lagash.
  • I also make this trade with WK.
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-WK-trade-328.jpg
    It obsoletes the Colossus, but is even techwise so it shouldn't get worst enemy problems. It also lets me start teching physics after corp and its associated tech monopolies instead of RR which will be traded for later.
  • At this stage I went for group consult, got Kossin's feedback, was pretty much what I was planning so I carried on from there, though I started training Rifles in Kish and 3rd. Turns out I should have trained some more though...
  • I also start a Galleon with the idea of transporting a settler to the frigid north to gift to SB.


Turn 329
  • IBTs Pyong is captured by WK then recaptured by SB! I'd rename it Stalingrad, but we don't have control over it.
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-Pyong-trunover-329.jpg
    At the time I thought my move of gifting a bunch of cannon and rifles worked really well, though I should have kept a few back. SB can now hold Pyong with his infrantry, but does not have the troop volume to get another.
  • Corps is in, research to 0%, 1303 gpt! Next stop is physics in 15 at 0%!

Turn 331
Don't know what happened to 330, it seems to be lost in my notes:confused:
  • Start wallstreet, in, well, wallstreet. I considered building it in 1st because of hindu spam, but I figure Jew spam as well will make it just as worth it, with out the opportunity cost of rifles. It is due in 21.
  • I also turn back research to 100%, Physics in 3, -300gpt.

Turn 332
  • Ask Kossin predicted, I have a Korean revolt in 1st.
  • Nanjang comes out of rebellion, whip a granary.

Turn 333
  • With one turn left in the GA I revolt to Emancipation, saving us a cool 14pgt in civic costs.

Turn 334
  • Physics is in, GA is out. Uranium isn't on any square with a mine, probably the best bet is the workshop by Nirabu. Research set for electricity in 4, still a monopoly.
  • Wooops, 4th in line revolts as well...
  • And I settle Shuruppak to gift to SB.
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-Shuruppack-334.jpg
    But wait for it to get Hinduism first, there is a missionary en route to the Galley.

Turn 335
  • At the start it turns out that apparently the ancients knew more about the fire of the heavens than we did...
    Spoiler :
    KoS2-electric-335.jpg
  • And, as said earlier, I screw up and let 2nd in line revolt to Korean ownership.

Comments
We are doing better with the AP in terms of total votes, I just think that we need to be careful not to step over the line. Maybe we should queue up 3 Missionaries (both types, we may as well get Judaism spread as well to consolidate it) and then spread them to SB after opening borders, closing asap. This will mean we don't have to get as close to the margin ourselves to win.
Techs should probably be a Space beeline, as far as I could tell from trade options, SB didn't tech anything this set so he must be going for something big (rocketry?)
 
Definitely 3rd in line should get Oxford, its only 14 turns, for a Forge, University and Oxford to be built, and it DOESN'T have Judaism for an extra 25% boost.

Iron works, 2 turns for an Observatory, got to leave open the option for space.

A few other high beaker cities, say 50-60+ could do with Uni's and Observatories. Or any cities that are building Wealth for conversion to gold, should build banks, markets and then Uni's Observatories for increase the % factor to 175%

Great job on spamming Hinduism, remember Sitting Bull has a Hindu City with Pyongyang that he's been able to capture from Wang, but a 2nd wouldn't hurt.

Should we be producing some troops to Gift to Wang, or are we happy with the current stalemate?, I'd just let him gradually wear down Sitting Bulls troops. He'll just go off and invade Bull if he gets too many troops.

Cumulodunum is winning the cultural battle, as are most of the cities, we could flip Bulls only active oil source soon, but another is available in the Arctic.

Move that musketman from the city that flipped, 2nd in line, to the potential flipper of 1st in line.

Use spies to spread our Culture to 2nd in line, we may flip it back, or even to spread our culture to Warwick, to eventually flip that city to us.

Grocers all over in preparation for the Supermarkets, and the space racing we'll end up doing, if the Diplomatic doesn't work out, or we decide against it. :crazyeye:

To win Cultural victory, we'll eventually have to switch to Hinduism, would we look to do that once we have Sitting bull at Friendly with say +12 to offset the -2 from swapping out of same religion (-1) and being in a heahten religion (-1), unless we use a spy to swap Sitting Bull for 5 turns.

We could look at Getting Wang to Friendly instead, and win a diplomatic victory with his voting for us. As he's in Free Religion, he's not a candidate, and 2 aren't required for the option, only below 75% threshold. Wang may be easier to get to friendly, Just run caste system. Bull, well, just gift Medicine to him, and run Environmentalism when he does.

Wang looks to have switched out of Caste System, because we Switched into Emancipation, unless we swap back out again, more wasted turns, maybe medicine to Bull is quicker and easier.

Zimbir, leave to wealth, or unit production for gifting to Wang?
 
Nice set, even though there were a few setbacks. :goodjob:

The game is won, there are 3 Enters left. I'll spoiler the answer in case you want to try and figure it out.

Don't see it yet? Here's the answer:
Spoiler :

First, if you have BUG or time to count city population, have a look at this screen.
Spoiler :


Clearly, our votes+WK's = diplo victory, and the vote is coming next turn.

However, relations with WK are not quite enough, yet. (+8 is the magic number)
Spoiler :


We need an extra +4 at least, maybe +5 to deal with the other hidden modifiers.

Fortunately, the missing pieces were left in place.

1. Move the galleon in the city. Unload content.
Spoiler :


2. Send the settler 1N of the silver. He gets to settle next turn.
Spoiler :


3. Before he moves away, send this Jewish missionary to the tile shown. His job is to spread Judaism to the gift city.
Spoiler :


4. Move the second spy to Seoul. Also you can see why the Missionary will just make it in time to the gift city.
Spoiler :


5. Turn up the EP slider just in case we need more EP than we have atm.
Spoiler :


Hit enter.
1916AD - at the beginning of the turn, the vote for Diplo should come up, choose it and vote for ourselves.

6. Next, go pay a visit to WK and have him revolt into Organized Religion. It's crucial to do this after the vote comes up, not before!
Spoiler :


7a. Found the gift city with the settler.
7b. Get the Jewish missionary in the gift city and spread Judaism there
7c. Gift the new city to WK. It will boost relations by +4 (1 liberated city, 3 fair trade).

8. Lastly, use the spies in Seoul and force WK into Judaism. It will boost relations another +1 -> total +9 enough for victory

Hit enter
1917AD - Victory

So why does this work? The AI casts its vote on the beginning of its turn, meaning we have our turn to change the relations into our favor.

There are 2 ways this strategy will fail:
1. Wang revolts to a religious civic this coming turn, making him a contender for diplo victory.
2. The spies fail to convert WK into Judaism

I'm willing to take the gamble. Worst comes to worst, the next vote is only a few turns away. A few more spies should solve any problem encountered.
 
Wow, Kossin. That is a well choreographed strategy, and an impressive gambit. Since you found it, I propose a swap so you can take those turns and get the fruits of your labor. :D
 
I went ahead and executed the plan...

Everything went as posted 2 posts above.
Spoiler :

Vote comes up
Spoiler :




City built, Judaism spread, gifted.
Spoiler :






"Bribe" into Judaism.
Spoiler :





Putting us at +9 with WK.
Spoiler :


So only a -2 RNG roll can make us not win.

Of course we got a -2 RNG diplo at the start of the game and Wang doesn't vote for us :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Anyway, the next vote was coming up not too far away so I played on.

Built spies to keep him into Judaism (he revolted out once).
I also switched to Caste System and spied him to Caste as well as he wouldn't revolt.
Spoiler :


The vote comes up again.
Spoiler :


And it's no fluke this time, with a Friendly Wang Kon voting for us.
Spoiler :


Some end screenshots
Spoiler :




I've included the auto-save from the winning turn. If anyone is wondering, I got lazy and just hit shift+enter without microing anything.


I might do another SG if there's enough interest (min 5 roster including myself).

It wouldn't be always war flavored as the last 2 were but I haven't given it any thought so suggestions are welcome!
 
I'd join another kossin game :)
I don't have any real suggestions for you except that I have always wanted to try a game where I built and liberated a bunch of colonies, kind of like a sun never set on my empire full of vassal states :lol:
Otherwise, I'd be up for anything, really. Great game, guys, and a great read! :goodjob:
 
WOW! :clap::clap::worship::eek::bowdown: Genius Plan!

I am amazed that you saw all those moves, nice play for the win!

And Congrats to everyone for a fun and educational game!

Re another SG, I'm interested, but having started classes have less time than I did before. Consider me interested if we have a roster that means I don't have to play more than once a week and if you are ok with me sometimes taking more than 24 hours to get the set in.
 
Nice job Kossin, I certainly liked how you carried it all out. The Gifting the city, is something I'd never have considered, so :goodjob:

You were the driving force for the game, so fitting that you closed it out.

Thanks for letting me fill in, when you had the gaps, I enjoyed the sets, Thanks for a different view on the game...enjoyable.
 
Good job to everyone that had a role in this SG!

It seems there is some interest in a new game. I've never really used colonies (other than for war) as from what I've seem they aren't bug-free (cities will stagnate and not produce anything).

I'll put up a new thread to pitch in ideas and get a roster.
 
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