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KoS4 - Something more casual (?)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by kossin, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Welcome to my fourth hosted SG!

    The third one can be found here. It was an unfortunate loss but it's bound to happen!

    This post will be updated with the missing settings when they are decided.

    Game Settings:
    Spoiler :




    Here is the awaited start, the first generated.


    Variant
    A list of rules to achieve this is listed below.

    Roster
    We'll give players 48 hours to pick up the save and another 48 hours to play it although extra time can be granted if requested. These times aren't extra-strict as some discussion may be required before going on forward. Your input is much coveted!

    Rules:
    As for turnset lengths, 15 for the first two sets, then 10 per set. A bit more/less is okay if reaching a decision point or about to finish something important.

    The start is to be generated once settings are agreed upon.

    Remember, we're here for fun! Fun starts with participation. The more input we get, the more fun!

    ~~~~
    Here be dinosaurs discussion.
    Spoiler :

    Everyone is welcome to join! If the difficulty setting ends up being Emperor, it'll be recommended that you can at least beat Noble difficulty. If it ends up being Immortal difficulty, then being able to beat Monarch difficulty would be a good asset.

    If you skipped reading everything above here's the important part.

    If you are interested in signing up, please answer these few questions:

    1. Difficulty: Emperor or Immortal
    2. Variant suggestions, have you any? (Could be none depending on roster and Immortal difficulty)
    3. Leader: suggest one or random leader?
    4. Map type (this can be altered depending on 2.)
    5. Anything else you'd like to include (huts?)
     
  2. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Here is my entry:

    1. Immortal
    2. none for now... might think of something if difficulty is emperor
    3. Hannibal... haven't played him in a while
    4. Terra for fun
    5. Yes to Huts :crazyeye:
     
  3. Stochastic

    Stochastic Chieftain

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    That does look nice and casual, rate of play is perfect for me right now, so I'll sign up!

    I've moved up to Emperor (with some struggle) over the course of KoS2, so Immortal sounds educational, though I feel like a variant might make things more interesting.

    So:

    1. Immortal if no variant, otherwise it depends on how tough the variant is.
    2. Some suggestions:
    a) No conquest or razing of AI cities (excluding or including Barbs)?
    b) If Terra maybe we have to colonize the New World and then make our old world a colony by a certain date (eg 1700)?
    c) both might actually go well together...
    d) We can't declare war, but if declared on, can't accept peace/capitulation. Never forgive! Never Forget!
    3. No solid opinion on leader, in solo games I always pick random and try to play from there.
    4. I was thinking Terra too!
    5. How could anyone say no to the fun of huts? It's like going trick or treating :p!

    I'm going on a weekend hike tomorrow, so I should probably not be second on the roster and might miss out on all the "where do we settle?" debates.
     
  4. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    I am curious how vassal mechanic change from warlords and want to recreate my old SG, soo..

    Civ- to be decided
    dificulty- Monarch (probably would not work on emperor)
    Map - Pangea, normal size.
    Speed - Epic
    All other settings are standard.

    Variant
    1) We must win by domination or conquest.
    2) All Victory conditions are enabled.
    3) We are not permitted to capture any other civ cities(no capture, no raise by military means). In war we only permitted to defend our cities and we can pillage as mach as we want and kill opponent units in the open. We can not attack cities and kill cities defenders. We can Bombard city defence, but that is all. We are permitted to capture barbarians cities.
     
  5. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    lurker's comment: ^ Death by culture! I like. :)

    I'll throw another in the mix if you're interested in Hannibal, just to try to give it a bit of a historical flavour ... pick your difficulty ...

    All victory conditions (maybe Space off?), random personalities, inland sea;
    • Hannibal of Carthage (Human)
    • Pericles of Greece
    • Julius Caesar of Rome
    • Alexander of Egypt
    • Boudica of the Celts
    • Brennus of France
    • Augustus Caesar of Spain
    The map should be 'World Buildered' so Greece-Egypt, Celtia-France, and Rome-Spain are friendly from the outset.

    Required prerequisites before any victory is recognised;
    • Carthage being the first founded Carthaginian city must be in Carthaginian control throughout the game
    • At least five Great Generals must be settled in Carthage
    • The Roman Empire must be killed off
    • Carthage must have a population at some point in the game of 25
    • The following resources must be within the cultural borders of the Carthaginian Empire or any of its vassals at some point during the game but need not be simultaneous;
      - Silver
      - Dye
      - Elephants
      - Horses​
      The map will need checking, and maybe tweaking to ensure all resources are present.
     
  6. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Interesting ideas. We can move the difficulty down to Monarch for some of the more extreme variants if required, it should be challenging enough.
    I'll wait for at least 2 more sign ups before we start deciding on the final settings.
     
  7. mlinneak

    mlinneak Chieftain

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    I'd like to join another kossin game :)

    As far as the options go, I would pick

    1. Difficulty: Emperor - I have won SP games on Noble. If the team prefers to go with Immortal, I can respectfully withdraw with no hurt feelings.
    2. Variant suggestions: Any are fine with me, I don't really have ideas of my own.
    3. Leader: Hannibal is fine - anyone is fine with me I like to try all of the leaders. Haven't done any SP games with Hannibal before yet.
    4. Map type: Terra is cool with me
    5. I love Tribal Villages so I vote include them.
     
  8. timmy827

    timmy827 Chieftain

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    I would like to sign up too, been a while since I played a SG. I've won some solo immortal games but most of limited CIV time goes to Realms Beyond games.

    Don't have any great variant ideas of my own up my sleeve, couple questions about the other ones posted:

    Cam_H: How do you make those civs friendly, and how much of a relations bonus are you talking about?

    Mutineer: can you post a link to the earlier game? I'm guessing that the idea is that you try to collect vassals, not domination mainly through culture push/flipping. Is it ever possible to capitulate a vassal without capturing cities, or does this rely one getting an friendly AI to peacefully vassal first before using it to bludgeon the rest?

    I think I like Mutineer's idea the most of those posted so far but could do any of the others.
     
  9. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=213061

    You do not need to capture cities. If you have more power and, more then 50% land/population and enough war successes he will capitulate to you with out loosing any cities.

    After that it is matter to make your vassals strong enough so they can take other civ cities and flip/limit them by culture, by filling up temporary culture-less space.
     
  10. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Alright, it looks like we have enough people to start deciding the settings! Still accepting sign ups as you can never have too many opinions!

    Hannibal looks like the preferred leader so far but it's still up for discussion.

    Map type+variant: The no city-capture will obviously be difficult on Terra so I guess we should decide on variant before map type. I think it sounds interesting, the hard part will be to force the AI in the open however as they will start turtling after losing their SoDs. We need a 40 war success for capitulation, so that's 40 more kills than lost units on our part without capturing any city. We'd have to rely on a strong army to stay relatively high in power which could generate us voluntary vassals which is even better.

    Difficulty: Monarch shouldn't be too hard if we choose that variant but Emperor would definitely be challenging. If we do Monarch, we could consider a non-Pangea map to make it more interesting. There's always the possibility of nuking cities (it's not capture after all :) ) on the other landmasses.

    Speed: I had not considered Epic speed tbh but if the team likes it, we can give it a go.

    Huts will be on.

    Roster (feel free to change your position, I just put in order of signup)
    1. kossin
    2. Stochastic
    3. Mutineer
    4. mlinneak
    5. timmy827
    6. ??
    7. ??
     
  11. Cam_H

    Cam_H Chieftain

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    Timmy,

    Never done it before, but assumed that 'diplomacy mode' in World Builder would be how. Apologies if this can't be done.

    Anyway, seems like the machine is in motion!
     
  12. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Reason for epic speed is inefficiency of AI in war. In vanilla and warlords AI was horrible in that aspect.
    In BTS improvements were made. Personally I like normal speed, but I just not sure.
     
  13. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    I am not sure about 40 war successes. It was not true in Warlords, do not know about bts and I never look on code.
    As we are not permitted to kill units in cities, use Nukes for that is not permitted to.
     
  14. Stochastic

    Stochastic Chieftain

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    @ Mutineer

    That variant sounds interesting, especially if we can actually make the Vassals useful, they always seem to be just a pain :lol:!

    @CamH

    I like the idea of adding some story element to the game, unfortunately I know very little about Hannibal (though I'm sure I could polish up quickly on Wikipedia).
    It did inspire me to throw this in: Return of Atlantis. Start is isolated, choose water themed civ (Hannibal or WvO?), win must be cultural on the same turn as space ship arrival.
    Probably not enough exciting stuff (ie war/diplo) going on turn by turn for an SG though.

    @Kossin

    Ignorant question about the 40 units kill ratio: How does killing a fully loaded galley (or any other naval transport) get counted? One victory or 3 victories?

    @all
    Re variant
    It generally looks like we are leaning towards Mutineer's, do we have a consensus to lock down the Variant so the rest can be decided?

    Re map (take 2)
    If we are playing as Hannibal I would rather avoid Pangea, it would be a shame to end up landlocked and unable to build his UB. On the other hand, having vassals on different continents will make them much less useful for attacking enemies, so probably a map with a few continents would be best.
     
  15. timmy827

    timmy827 Chieftain

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    I would think that Terra might actually be easier for Mutineer's variant - if we get Astro early, can lock down much of the new world without war. (More of an observation than recommendation as those maps can take a long time to finish).

    Kossin, you obviously know a lot about vassal details, can you point to a post or files in the code explaining more? Searches turn up bits and pieces, but no complete guides...Thanks.

    EDIT: One of them:

    It looks like you actually need only 10-14 kills more to get to 40 WS (depending on whether you attack/defend), so that seems manageable. I guess the difficulty is having sufficient power advantage without taking AI cities and killing their garrisions.

    Also read through Mutineer's SG. I believe in BTS the AI upgrade discount is 50% across all levels, so probably the gift and upgrade strategy won't be so powerful. OTOH, I bet this time we have a capital with at least one bonus in the fat cross :)
     
  16. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Sure. Here's a good read:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=325529
    Posts #4 and 19 in particular are interesting.

    Reading that again leads me to believe it might be hard to achieve domination/conquest.

    Still, we can try it :)

    @Stochastic
    Every unit that dies is counted. So killing a galley filled with 2 spears = 12 war success.

    It seems everyone agrees on the variant (haven't seen anyone against it). I'm assuming Monarch difficulty although Emperor is a possibility? Hannibal as leader also seems a lock.

    Terra still seems popular in the team despite the variant. Any further opinions?
    Lastly, Normal or Epic Speed?
     
  17. timmy827

    timmy827 Chieftain

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    My votes are Emperor/Epic/Pangaea, although I only feel fairly strong about the last one. After reading Mutineer's old SG, I'm afraid that we might have things mostly wrapped on the Old World in the Renaissance, but then have to spend a lot of time space-filling in the New if we did Terra, and of course the variant pretty much demands all civs on same landmass.
     
  18. Tatran

    Tatran Chieftain

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  19. Stochastic

    Stochastic Chieftain

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    I'm reluctant to go for Pangea just to make things easy for us (what am I saying, I though this was supposed to be casual right?) But I also think Timmy has a good point about Terra being a pain, so I'm leaning away from that map choice too.

    I'll vote for Emperor/Epic (to make life a wee bit easier for us)/Continents.

    But really, I would not complain if there was a start posted with any of the settings discussed, they are all in roughly the right ballpark.
     
  20. kossin

    kossin Chieftain

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    Tatran, is that a sign-up?
    I think we're pretty much settled on Mutineer's variant however.

    ~~~

    About the other settings: okay, let's scrap Terra, it'd be more painful than fun.
    I'm fine with Pangea if we crank the difficulty to Emperor while using Epic Speed.

    Anything else missing?
     

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