KoS4 - Something more casual (?)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Are you guys doing Mutineer's variant then? I'd like to sign up if there's still room. Sounds fun. 
Too busy ATM to really participate, but I'd be good to go as of next week.
A map like Terra seems easier for this, as you can just claim a pile of land mid-game. I'd be more for a Pangaea-like map. Hannibal's ok, I guess - doesn't really matter. I'd probably suggest Zara Yaqob or Asoka otherwise.
Too busy ATM to really participate, but I'd be good to go as of next week.
A map like Terra seems easier for this, as you can just claim a pile of land mid-game. I'd be more for a Pangaea-like map. Hannibal's ok, I guess - doesn't really matter. I'd probably suggest Zara Yaqob or Asoka otherwise.
Are you guys doing Mutineer's variant then? I'd like to sign up if there's still room. Sounds fun.
Too busy ATM to really participate, but I'd be good to go as of next week.
A map like Terra seems easier for this, as you can just claim a pile of land mid-game. I'd be more for a Pangaea-like map. Hannibal's ok, I guess - doesn't really matter. I'd probably suggest Zara Yaqob or Asoka otherwise.
It looks like we indeed are.
I'll give another 24 hours for input but I think these settings will be good:
Pangea
Epic Speed
Huts ON
Events OFF
Hannibal of Carthage
Emperor difficulty (? Monarch might be too easy but I'm not sure)
Roster so far looks like...
1. kossin
2. Stochastic
3. Mutineer
4. mlinneak
5. timmy827
6. Tatran
7. babybluepants
mlinneak
Prince
Everything sounds good to me so far. I do have a question though. I read through Sulla's RB29a - Cultural Extermination, and they were not permitted to enter enemy territory without open borders, but they were permitted to kill enemy troops within the city if their border reached that city - so the team's units were still in their own land. This way they were able to take out all of the city defenders except one, causing the city to eventually revolt by culture to them.
If we are not allowed to kill any units in the city, how will we ever expect to take any enemy cities from them to grant a domination or conquest victory? They can garrison enough units within their city to prevent any kind of revolt, and I don't think that bombarding those garrison troops will work to pressure the city to revolt to us. Isn't it the number of units, not the strength that prevents city revolt?
Granted, I have not read the other RB29 games (yet) so If I'm missing something, please let me know.
If we are not allowed to kill any units in the city, how will we ever expect to take any enemy cities from them to grant a domination or conquest victory? They can garrison enough units within their city to prevent any kind of revolt, and I don't think that bombarding those garrison troops will work to pressure the city to revolt to us. Isn't it the number of units, not the strength that prevents city revolt?
Granted, I have not read the other RB29 games (yet) so If I'm missing something, please let me know.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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I don't see a problem with using spies so long as they aren't our main method of conquest, I think the spirit of the variant is to convince everyone of our military might through glorious and honourable exploits in the field! 
Edit @mlinneak: The plan is to kill their units in the open, if we defeat sufficient numbers without loosing too many of our own troops they will capitulate to us. If everyone capitulates, we get a conquest win!
In fact, this makes me think that, in some ways, Emperor might actually be a bit easier than Monarch. If we are doing so well that they never leave the city, we have no chance of winning...
Edit @mlinneak: The plan is to kill their units in the open, if we defeat sufficient numbers without loosing too many of our own troops they will capitulate to us. If everyone capitulates, we get a conquest win!
In fact, this makes me think that, in some ways, Emperor might actually be a bit easier than Monarch. If we are doing so well that they never leave the city, we have no chance of winning...
timmy827
King
Also @mlinneak's concern: A big stack can prevent any chance at revolt, but if you have a broad front such that you can culturally pressure multiple cities, the AI often won't be able to garrison all sufficiently to stop flips.
One more thing - RB29 did not have access to the WMC known as Sushi, CreCon, and Jewelers. If we do get to the late game, those will work wonders for us. The combination of those produced big results in Epic 24. EDIT: here's my writeup
So, even though our main goal will be getting vassals and helping them conquer more land, some amount of culture pushing could be useful. Our variant also does not rule out the bribe-and-poach tactic used to such great effect by the winning RB29 team.
One more thing - RB29 did not have access to the WMC known as Sushi, CreCon, and Jewelers. If we do get to the late game, those will work wonders for us. The combination of those produced big results in Epic 24. EDIT: here's my writeup
So, even though our main goal will be getting vassals and helping them conquer more land, some amount of culture pushing could be useful. Our variant also does not rule out the bribe-and-poach tactic used to such great effect by the winning RB29 team.
Read previous posts and read old SG, link in previoys posts, but I copy it again.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=213061
We are not permitted to kill any units in cities, or even damage them, yes, but that is not true for our vassals.
Vassals can do anything they like
I permitted as to bombard city defense, because in my experience AI sod's often luck enough siege and lovering defense to 0 often entice AI sod to attack city.Idea behind variant was to demonstrate vassal mechanic and find ways to use vassals to our advantage. We do not need to take over every city on continent, we need just to convince every civ to become our vassal in order to win by conquests, or culturally push enogth cities/space to reach domination limit. Vassals can take cities for as and we can flip then form them. We can plant new cities in time before taken cities come out of revolt and culturally pressure new vassals accusitions. We even do not need to flip them, as we always claim fat cross if it is compete with out vassal city.
Since pretty much everyone pitched in since I suggested the settings above, I'm going to generate the map in a couple hours. If you have any objection, now is the time!
Also, to once again mention the variant:
Rules:
1. Must win Conquest or Domination Victory.
1a.All other conditions are enabled but out of reach to us.
2. We may never ever kill an enemy unit in a city.
2a. We may also not damage them ourselves, that means no nukes, no siege sacrifice, no bombers, etc.
2b. Moreover, should a city be left undefended (as if damaged by ), we are also not permitted to capture it.
2c. Barbarian cities are the only exception to the above rules, we may deal with them accordingly.
2d. We are allowed however to Bombard city defenses.
2e. Please note this means we may not even re-capture a city of ours that is lost in a surprise attack!
3. Everything else is fair game. Pillaging, luring units, culturally flipping cities etc.
~~~
So, how's the best way to deal with this?
1. A strong military will be required once we acquire Feudalism. A point to consider is free-will vassals which will join you on their own accord if you are big enough and have good enough relations with them. ofc some are easier to get here (MM comes to mind).
2. Kill units in the open! That means killing the enemy SoD with as little casualties as possible. Losing any units is bad as it lowers our war success - we'll want state-of-the-art units.
3. Pick off stray units. First we have to spot them. Espionage/spies will be a good way to gather intel but movement will be important also. This suggests 2-movement units in abundance! It's also a good idea to delete wounded units left in the open. We will lose some power this way but as our empire grows, the more difficult part will be to kill units, not make them.
4. Upon acquiring vassals, we have to carefully choose our targets. A good way to achieve this is to take a neighboring civ to the vassal. To make sure the vassal does not go crazy and send units wherever, go to the Diplomacy Screen and select "Let's discuss something else...." >>> "We would like you to attack..." >>> select the correct city. Ideally, our own SoD will be in the vicinity with enough siege to bombard the city to 0% in 1 turn.
5. Lastly, unit gifting! What's the best way to get sickly old Gandhi to grow a pair of new shiny balls? How about gifting him his own shiny division of Infantry right on the border of our enemy!
Anyone has other ideas? I think we should have a good chance starting with this. We just have to keep in mind we need to do more damage to the civ than our vassal or they won't capitulate.
EDIT: I've also modified the first post of the thread to contain pretty much everything.
Also, to once again mention the variant:
Rules:
1. Must win Conquest or Domination Victory.
1a.All other conditions are enabled but out of reach to us.
2. We may never ever kill an enemy unit in a city.
2a. We may also not damage them ourselves, that means no nukes, no siege sacrifice, no bombers, etc.
2b. Moreover, should a city be left undefended (as if damaged by ), we are also not permitted to capture it.
2c. Barbarian cities are the only exception to the above rules, we may deal with them accordingly.
2d. We are allowed however to Bombard city defenses.
2e. Please note this means we may not even re-capture a city of ours that is lost in a surprise attack!
3. Everything else is fair game. Pillaging, luring units, culturally flipping cities etc.
~~~
So, how's the best way to deal with this?
1. A strong military will be required once we acquire Feudalism. A point to consider is free-will vassals which will join you on their own accord if you are big enough and have good enough relations with them. ofc some are easier to get here (MM comes to mind).
2. Kill units in the open! That means killing the enemy SoD with as little casualties as possible. Losing any units is bad as it lowers our war success - we'll want state-of-the-art units.
3. Pick off stray units. First we have to spot them. Espionage/spies will be a good way to gather intel but movement will be important also. This suggests 2-movement units in abundance! It's also a good idea to delete wounded units left in the open. We will lose some power this way but as our empire grows, the more difficult part will be to kill units, not make them.
4. Upon acquiring vassals, we have to carefully choose our targets. A good way to achieve this is to take a neighboring civ to the vassal. To make sure the vassal does not go crazy and send units wherever, go to the Diplomacy Screen and select "Let's discuss something else...." >>> "We would like you to attack..." >>> select the correct city. Ideally, our own SoD will be in the vicinity with enough siege to bombard the city to 0% in 1 turn.
5. Lastly, unit gifting! What's the best way to get sickly old Gandhi to grow a pair of new shiny balls? How about gifting him his own shiny division of Infantry right on the border of our enemy!
Anyone has other ideas? I think we should have a good chance starting with this. We just have to keep in mind we need to do more damage to the civ than our vassal or they won't capitulate.
EDIT: I've also modified the first post of the thread to contain pretty much everything.
Alright, here's our start:
The save is in the first post.
A lot of brown tiles but a river and some food.
I'd send the warrior on the grass hill first to see if there's a reason to settle west to add the wheat to our BFC.
Otherwise, 1S on the plains hill should accelerate things a bit.
Looks like a Ag>AH opening so far.
The save is in the first post.
A lot of brown tiles but a river and some food.
I'd send the warrior on the grass hill first to see if there's a reason to settle west to add the wheat to our BFC.
Otherwise, 1S on the plains hill should accelerate things a bit.
Looks like a Ag>AH opening so far.
I think you can just move the warrior. 
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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^ Seconded, move the warrior for a bit more info.
There's a tundra hill revealed NW.
So, I'm interested in the dark tiles around the wheat.
When there's more tundra or worse ice tiles I'd prefer to settle on the green hill to
avoid to waste another city to grab the wheat.
I wouldn't mind to use some settler moves to get a better overview.
So, I'm interested in the dark tiles around the wheat.
When there's more tundra or worse ice tiles I'd prefer to settle on the green hill to
avoid to waste another city to grab the wheat.
I wouldn't mind to use some settler moves to get a better overview.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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- 411
I thought I'd take up Kossin's suggestion:
After much huffing and puffing and wishing that they knew how to ride the cows they saw on the plain, our heroic band on travelers surmounted the hilltop to get a better view of the land, revealing more of the udderly delicious beasts. Now if only they knew how to tame them...
I think that this supports moving 1S. It opens up the option of settling in the forest (chopped ofc) 1NW of the warrior to get a city working the green cows and wheat.
I don't really favour settling on the wine, I don't think think giving up the corn is worth the 2 extra commerce.
After much huffing and puffing and wishing that they knew how to ride the cows they saw on the plain, our heroic band on travelers surmounted the hilltop to get a better view of the land, revealing more of the udderly delicious beasts. Now if only they knew how to tame them...
I think that this supports moving 1S. It opens up the option of settling in the forest (chopped ofc) 1NW of the warrior to get a city working the green cows and wheat.
I don't really favour settling on the wine, I don't think think giving up the corn is worth the 2 extra commerce.
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