Kuriotates and the Eyes and Ears Network

[Raize]

The Eyes and Ears Network presents an inconsistency with the Kuriotates. On Huge maps, the Kuriotates can build the network. On any other, they can't.

Is it deliberate that the Kuriotates are normally excluded from the Eyes and Ears Network? On difficulty levels above Prince, the network is the only way I can keep up in tech; it seems like a fairly big disadvantage especially considering the Kuriotate limit on cities and the cumulative slowdown effect on their cities when it comes to food and health. (Slowdown meaning other cities grow and reach "full capacity" sooner - it's much faster to grow 2 size 12 cities than it is to grow 1 size 24 city. Especially if there's Blight.)

 

[rocklikeafool]

Sounds like a bug to me.

 

[Mailbox]

And you can't build the great library/theater of dreams/etc. with only two cities.

 

[CyberChrist]

The whole Settlements concept of the Kurioates needs to be revised IMHO.

Allowing Settlements to function like any other city, but only to allow them access to 1st workable ring would seem to be more than enough to counter the benefit gained by a few mega size cites - perhaps also exlude Settlements from building the special Kurioates resource/commerce booster buildings as well (Tailor, Jeweler etc.).

 

[DrPepper836]

Or maybe just keep the commerce limit and let them build buildings, but not units. That would work.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Either way, the concept of settlements need to be revised.

 

[thapagan]

What are the buildings a very small town might have? Maybe an Inn Maybe a movie house
most have a school and library....
Should the Kurioatetes have a bunch of settlement only buildings?
At what point does it go from being cool to being clumsy?

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, it's kinda hard to determine the point where it goes from cool to clumsy. Cuz everyone will have a different idea bout it. I think that's why Kael and the team did it the way they did. I'm sure they thought and debated and thought some, etc. for the longest time and finally determined that this was the best way to do for the intent they had. Also, I'm sure they figured that if anyone wanted to change it, they'd do a Flavour modmod.

 

[Nor'easter]

The whole Settlements concept of the Kurioates needs to be revised IMHO.

Allowing Settlements to function like any other city, but only to allow them access to 1st workable ring would seem to be more than enough to counter the benefit gained by a few mega size cites - perhaps also exlude Settlements from building the special Kurioates resource/commerce booster buildings as well (Tailor, Jeweler etc.).

Either that, or keep Settlements as they are and have the number of Kuriotate mega-cities scale with the size of their empire rather than map size.

 

[Blackmantle]

Or just allow an additional city hub for each size / at an early tech and another one at engineering where everyone else might get city of a thousand slums.

If its possible to add a tech-requirement for additional hubs it should be possible to balance it in a way that even the Kuoritates can build most wonders regardless of map-size. (i don't think that the network is a real issue on small and smaller maps. But the other wonders very well might on tiny / duel size maps.)

Or just tie the number of prerequisite buildings on the number of possible hubs if that number is smaller than the regular limit.

At OCC you also only need one building to enable after all so perhaps it indeed is possible...

 

[hbar]

Maybe each settlement could have only as many buildings as there are megacities? So in one settlement you can have a library and an obelisk, but in another you can have an inn and a tavern (my kind of city )

 

[pan 1xa]

i have the same prblem on a middle map 3 city is impossible to build this wunder , sad..

 

[CyberChrist]

Either that, or keep Settlements as they are and have the number of Kuriotate mega-cities scale with the size of their empire rather than map size.

You mean like allowing (ie.) 1 Mega city for each 2 Settlements beyond what the map size allows?

 

[Nor'easter]

You mean like allowing (ie.) 1 Mega city for each 2 Settlements beyond what the map size allows?

Something like that, yeah. I don't know what number would be balanced, but that's the idea. So after the first mega-city, you'd need to build, e.g., 2? 3? settlements (maybe 2 would be best) before being able to create the next mega-city, and so on.

An alternative idea would be to get rid of Settlements altogether, but increase the hammer cost of Kuriotate Settlers (and maybe their workers?). Since they get larger and more powerful cities, the cities should be more expensive to build and improve. That might be a lot more radical than the team wants, though.

 

[tipwong]

An alternative idea would be to get rid of Settlements altogether, but increase the hammer cost of Kuriotate Settlers (and maybe their workers?).

I think this would destroy the uniqueness of Kuriotate civ.

my suggestion:
(less radical) decrease the cost of settler, or separate original settler from settlement settler--it is annoying for me to build a expensive settler in the early game just use it as a settlement.
(more radical)include settlement's production into 3 maga city.(unbalance with other civ in the game), but remove at least some of their unique improvements and buildings for game balance.(I don't play as Kuriotate for more than once, so I don't know what they are. So no suggestion of what to delete)

 

[Vehem]

I think this would destroy the uniqueness of Kuriotate civ.

my suggestion:
(less radical) decrease the cost of settler, or separate original settler from settlement settler--it is annoying for me to build a expensive settler in the early game just use it as a settlement.
(more radical)include settlement's production into 3 maga city.(unbalance with other civ in the game), but remove at least some of their unique improvements and buildings for game balance.(I don't play as Kuriotate for more than once, so I don't know what they are. So no suggestion of what to delete)

One possible option would be to use a few "builder units". A Kuriotate scholar could be produced in any hub-city with a library and could then be sacrificed to produce a library in any other Kuriotate city. Likewise a Preacher might produce a pagan temple.

As the commerce rates and yields of the cities are still severely penalized, the benefits of doing so would be very limited - but it does open up the option for constructing wonders that require multiple building prereqs or even events that depend upon the presence of a building.

Basically the building work is done in the hub-city, with the benefit exported to the settlements.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think I like that that idea Vehem.

A new settlement doesn't really have the population or resources to build all of those things for themselves, but new immigrants who bring all the resources with them could still set up shop there. I clearly won't do it for all buildings,but some of the basics could be nice.


I'll probably steal it for in my modmod. I'll also give them UUs of Guild Executives (borrowed from Orbi modmod) which have the ability to force build the guild's UBs.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Hmm...I really like that idea.

 

[Niveras]

One possible option would be to use a few "builder units". A Kuriotate scholar could be produced in any hub-city with a library and could then be sacrificed to produce a library in any other Kuriotate city. Likewise a Preacher might produce a pagan temple.

As the commerce rates and yields of the cities are still severely penalized, the benefits of doing so would be very limited - but it does open up the option for constructing wonders that require multiple building prereqs or even events that depend upon the presence of a building.

Basically the building work is done in the hub-city, with the benefit exported to the settlements.

I like that idea too. These basic units can also be used to construct more advanced buildings at additional gold cost in the late game. For instance, a sage or scholar might be able to build an elder council and/or library with no cost besides the unit itself, but can also build an alchemy lab by spending 100 or 200 gold when you do 'settle' the unit. In this way you don't need to upgrade the units, or spam the unit list with slightly different builders.

Scholar/Sage: council, library, alchemy lab, maybe mage guild.

Entertainer: carnival, inn, tavern.

Merchant: Market, gambling house, money changer, tax office

Artist: Obelisk, Tailor, Jeweler

Prophet: Pagan Temple, maybe also the various religious temples, of course costing gold, but requires duplicates of the various Found Temple abilities.

My suggestion might allow you to cheat a bit, though. You could have a stockpile of gold and a bunch of scholars, get the tech for Alchemy labs, then build it in all your cities without having first built an alchemy lab itself. I suppose you could work around this by somehow making the building grant a promotion (or the ability itself) to the unit to allow it to construct that building, but that sounds like a lot more work than it's worth. There is certainly an easier way to go about that, besides allowing builders to only create basic buildings.

 

[Vehem]

Scholar/Sage: council, library, alchemy lab, maybe mage guild.

Entertainer: carnival, inn, tavern.

Merchant: Market, gambling house, money changer, tax office

Artist: Obelisk, Tailor, Jeweler

Prophet: Pagan Temple, maybe also the various religious temples, of course costing gold, but requires duplicates of the various Found Temple abilities.

Kuriotate Great People with civ-specific spells perhaps?

For a building that normally takes <iCost> hammers;

• Casting costs <iCost> gold (given that the buildings are less useful in settlements)
• Casting immobilizes the Great Person for <iCost> / 10 turns
• Casting requires <iCost> / 10 turns to complete

As an example, a Great Sage could construct a library in a settlement, but it would cost 120 gold and take 12 turns for him to complete it, during which time he could do nothing else.

Note that the great person would not be sacrificed in the process here. The time taken is the limiting factor.

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Downside to both of these ideas - the AI would be mostly clueless about it.