Land Manipulation

[Edgecrusher]

This was a feature I have wanted in Civ for some time.

Basically its Canal-Building and Landfilling.

I know these features will eventually be abused, but I always wanted to be able to "Add 1 land square, where there was water, and likewise do the reverse i.e. build a canal through a large contident's choke point so my boats didnt have to circle the massave contident.

In Civ 2 I was able to manipulate the Engineer's commands to turn grasslands into water, and water into grasslands. But I never found a feature like this for civ 3 or 4.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Canals have long been a popular request in this forum (bridges less so). As of right now, you can build a canal by founding a city on an isthmus, but that's obviously less-than-ideal. Search for "canal;" you'll get a ton of suggestions. I wonder if we should get a canal petition going or something...

 

[ShadowWarrior]

Canal is a good idea, but we have to make it very expensive to build so that it won't be abused.

 

[Mewtarthio]

If it could only be built on a one-tile ithsmus (ie any place that can currently be canalled with a city), that would certainly help.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well to make it truly worthwhile, they should make it so that cities Cannot canal tiles.

If you look at the type of canals that are being talked about, only two have been built on Earth, and they were built after the 1800s (Railroad type tech)

If they could find some way that cities could NOT canal tiles [like a ship in a city is always in one of 8 Ports, and it can't move from one port to another..must always exit the way it came in] then it would be something worth putting in... otherwise, just put a city there.

 

[Mewtarthio]

The main argument for canals is that if an AI misplaces a city you must raze it, even if it's a holy city, to get a crucial canal. Early game, I'd say it makes for an interesting choice (do I build on the ithsmus and get a canal or do I move two tiles over to get an overall superior spot?), but it'd be nice if, late game, you could change it.

Re: ships and cities
Perhaps a ship could not leave a city through any direction that isn't +/- nintey degrees from its entrance point. Maybe skipping a turn could nullify this.

 

[Zebra 9]

How would someone abuse canals?

 

[Aristocracy]

Overfishing and extortionate fares.

That's not a bad idea actually. How about a charge whenever you use a foreign canal? It would make control of the ithsmus ever more crucial for trading empires.

 

[rysmiel]

What on Earth would count as "abuse" of landfilling ?

 

[squid1111]

Landfilling would make a lot of sense, but landfilling several squares could make sea levels rise... and as for canals, maybe they should be allowed for 2 tiles as well as one, but something like the Suez canal is more like a river than controlled mass flooding.

 

[rysmiel]

Landfilling would make a lot of sense, but landfilling several squares could make sea levels rise... and as for canals, maybe they should be allowed for 2 tiles as well as one, but something like the Suez canal is more like a river than controlled mass flooding.

Yes, but we have the irrigation tile improvement to model controlled mass flooding.

The model of land reclamation I am interested in having available would be something like Holland; walling in and draining lots of coastal squares. Not going to do anything drastic to sea-levels globally because of how relatively small the volume of water being cleared is, because it's not that deep compared to deep ocean.

 

[Camikaze]

Canals are definitely something that I thing warrant attention in the game, but I think that instead of changing a whole tile to a water tile, they should be made as improvements on tiles, making those tiles accessible to limited numbers of naval vessels. Obviously, in order to create a functioning canal system, you would have to build multiple connecting canal improvements, forgoing the cultivation of those tiles by other methods. But there would be some sort of commercial benefit in trade, depending on the viability of the canal (trade routes need to be added for this to be a factor). Also, canals could become part of diplomatic relations. Both the Suez and Panama Canals were built by those who could be considered the masters of the nation in which they were built, and were controlled by them. This could somehow be simulated as a way of advantaging a particular civilization, and it would lead the way for a more trade oriented game, and more wars based on reasons more varying than pure conquest.

 

[deanej]

We have them now. They are called forts.

 

[Camikaze]

But they don't really make much sense, and don't provide any trade advantage. Canals shouldn't be represented by forts.

 

[UWHabs]

Land-filling could be simulated late-game with some sort of work boat action on coastal tiles. Just late-game be able to "landfill" a coastal tile, giving like +1 food or something. Would be pretty easy, and wouldn't allow any sort of crazy landfill chaining connecting Europe to America.

As for canals, they should be in the game, but the current tile structure makes it challenging. I think what would make most sense is that any sequence of tiles like this:

XO
OX

where X is land and O water (ie. diagonal) should be able to be canaled. Have a worker action late-game to "connect" those 2 bodies of water. That's an obvious place for a canal, and currently has no in-game way to happen.

 

[deanej]

You could build a fort. Forts allow ships to enter the tile if next to the coast. Land-filling a whole tile is unrealistic due to the size of a tile. You don't see people proposing that we fill in all of Lake Erie with land, but that is roughly the size of a tile in game.

 

[rysmiel]

You could build a fort. Forts allow ships to enter the tile if next to the coast. Land-filling a whole tile is unrealistic due to the size of a tile. You don't see people proposing that we fill in all of Lake Erie with land, but that is roughly the size of a tile in game.

Look at Holland, dude. Something close to half the country is reclaimed from the sea.

 

[Camikaze]

Look at Holland, dude. Something close to half the country is reclaimed from the sea.

I'm just going to guess and say that isn't dug up land, but land protected by levees/dykes.

 

[Rusty Edge]

I'd like to see navigable rivers running through the middle of tiles . If the core game had such a feature, it wouldn't be hard to have proper canals. A canal should provide a big bonus in commerce and productvity.

I'd like to see bridges and tunnels, too. I'm cool with terra-forming, but I think there should be limits on this stuff. Perhaps making them cost a G E, or making them national wonders.

 

[Trias]

I'm just going to guess and say that isn't dug up land, but land protected by levees/dykes.

Not really. Substantial parts of it are former parts of the Zuiderzee that were enclosed by dikes and then pumped dry. The lowest of these so called 'polders' are at about 5m below sea level.

It would be interesting to have such a feature in the game. Although it would be rarely worth the effort gameplay wise.