Leader Ability Elimination Thread

[Legacy of Smiles]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [18]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [10+1=11] Early pantheon beats Poundmaker's ability.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [13-3=10] Doesn't offer anything game-winning.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[TomKQT]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [18-3 = 15] - I don't like the bonuses based on "after declaration of war". And even worse is when it must be one specific type of war. There are chances you won't declare a single Territorial Expansion War in the whole game. And if you do, you get some good (but not really great) bonuses for 10 turns after that. Really? So you get either no bonus, or for 10, maybe 20 turns during the whole game? It surprises me why Chandragupta stayed in the list for so long and even has such high score at this moment. A military policy slot is usefull for the whole game and Frederick is already gone
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [11
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30+1 = 31] - I don't remember playing like him (must have been one of my first games), but it sounds like a really great bonus. Monument is always one of the first things I build, but in the capital it must wait until I get some defence (slinger(s)) or exploration (scout). So, this saves a lot of production and decision making

 

[Zdarg]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [11-3=8] Don't understand importance of early pantheon. Divine Spark is always available.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [22+1=23] No new (if any at all) arguments contra, no need for new arguments pro.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

 

[Greywulf]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [8]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [23+1=24] Can't help voting for this one again. Builders having an extra charge is quite invaluable.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31-3=28] Not so helpful if you aren't focused on founding lots of new cities.

 

[AmazonQueen]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [8-3=5] - AI getting relics from goodie huts means Harvest and Earth Goddess are often not available even with Gitarja.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [24+1=25] - Easy to get early wonders with this and extra builder charge is useful whole game.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [28]

 

[Xandinho]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19 - 3 = 16] Weak and have little synergy with French civilization
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25 + 1 = 26] The extra builder charge is a snowball throughout the game, as well as making it easier to get to early wonders.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [28]

 

[Mesix]

New
1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16 - 3 = 13] I have to agree, this is very weak. Not sure how it could still be here when much better abilities have been eliminated. The spy minigame is inconsequential.
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [22]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [24 + 1 = 25] Building districts is one of the most time consuming parts of the game. Building them in 1/2 time is fantastic!
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [28]

 

[BarbarianHunter]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [19] (22-3) --- Nice abilities but there are better choices.
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27] (26+1) --- First the pyramids, then build the Petra (10 or more gold per turn game long) and/or Colosseum (12 or more culture per turn game long) for a little more than the cost of 1.3 builders each strikes me competitive with some of what's here. Add in guaranteed 4-charge builders and you have my vote.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [28]

 

[SammyKhalifa]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [19-3=16] -- more like mongol bored, amirite?
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [28+1=29] -- because who doesn't like free stuff

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [16]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [32+1=33] Amenities go further AND being able to snowball a combat bonus? There's a reason why this is leading.
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [10-3=7] Because pop and growth aren't as effective as combat bonuses or shortcuts around game mechanics. Jayavarman got knocked out early so I don't know why this is still so high.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [29]

 

[TahamiTsunami]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [15 - 3 = 12] As much as I love playing as Chandragupta, I'll admit that this ability is probably one of the least useful of the remaining abilities.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [16]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [7]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [29 + 1 = 30] I like free stuff!

 

[Weraptor]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13+1=14] Also a +3 bonus, to all units, free Spy and better spy along with other visibility perks are pretty sweet.
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [12]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [16-3=13] Works wonderfully in conjunction with
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [7]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[bbbt]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [12]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [24 + 1 = 25] - Even for a peaceful type, you can cheese and just get bonus ancient/classical movement for your scouts/settlers/builders with a surprise war declaration. Also extra points for being the original 'get bonuses when you declare war' LUA.
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [7]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [26 - 3 = 23] Early, stronger corps/armies is strong, works great with the Zulu UA, and has the bonus of basically guaranteeing you a few of the historical moments for Golden Ages. But compared to the remaining ones, this is more of a 'stay ahead when you are already ahead' sort of bonus imho than a right out of the gate one.
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[ferretbacon]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14+1=15] I'm going to bolster Catherine here. I still don't like her inclusion, but I have to admit that this ability is probably the best part about playing France. The extra spy and free promotion is surprisingly powerful.
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [12]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [7-3=4] I think this is a little too inconsistent. It's okay, but there are better abilities remaining on this list.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [23]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[Icicle]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [12-3 = 9] I think this is just flat out worse than Cyrus.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [25+1 = 26] Half price for three districts is crazy good and super flexible.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [4]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [23]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[Jewelrunna]

New
1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [9 - 3 = 6] I really dislike "declare war, get bonus" abilities for how prevalent and simultaneously bland they are, and this ability is simply like Cyrus', but more situational. The damage bonus is nice, but you're going to use it less often than Cyrus and it has less diplomatic implications than his. But more than anything else, I just really dislike this type of ability; bland, bland, bland.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [26]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [4]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27 + 1 = 28] This ability not only gets you more bang for your buck from builders, which can be particularly useful in the early game (and the whole game, but you get what I'm pointing out) but also allows you to rush any early game wonder you choose to the point where it's all but a guarantee (barring perhaps Stonehenge). This is particularly impactful when we're discussing a pool of wonders that includes the Pyramids, the Colosseum, the Temple of Artemis, Halicarnassus, and Apadana.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [23]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[Leathaface]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [6] I really dislike "declare war, get bonus" abilities for how prevalent and simultaneously bland they are, and this ability is simply like Cyrus', but more situational. The damage bonus is nice, but you're going to use it less often than Cyrus and it has less diplomatic implications than his. But more than anything else, I just really dislike this type of ability; bland, bland, bland.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [26]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33+1=34] +1 Combat Strength from each Luxury resource can be very powerful in the early game. If you start near another continent it gets even better. It's also possible to increase enough Luxury resources for the combat strength to have an impact even in the late game. Plus 2 extra cities benefiting from 1 amenity is nice.
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [4]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [28-3=25] Pre R&F an extra builder charge was very good, it has gotten nerfed significantly with R&F though. A single governor promotion give +1 builders charges, extra builder charges aren't a huge thing now. I also don't build builders in multiple cities much simultaneously. I'd rather stick Liang in my highest production city, enact Feudalism then build builders galore. After a while I build enough builders and don't need more so I get rid of Feudalism and take Liang out of the city. Plus I like to settle early cities and focus on defending myself instead of taking risks with early wonders. (I play on Immortal)
30. Shaka - Amabutho [23]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[Wyvern_Parade]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [6-3=3] I think this should go before Poundmaker and Gitarja. You're not guaranteed to be able to use it, and it only lasts 10 turns unlike the other abilities which last throughout the game. And as I said before, it's useless in multiplayer.
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [26]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21] (Don't know whether to upvote this for being OP, or downvote it for being poorly designed so I won't touch it.)
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [34]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [4]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [25]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [23+1=24] Early knight corps are insanely powerful. This is a really unique ability and pretty much defines the civ.
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[SumerianMonkey]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15+1=16] Undervalued, not the best but spies make an impact in the late game and add a little flavour to the eras I find dull
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [3]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [26]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [34]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [4]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The FirstEmperor [25-3=22] over valued here, good governance management should subvert builder issues and cards and the pyramids also work
30. Shaka - Amabutho [24]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]

 

[Mesix]

1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
4. Chandragupta - Arthashastra [3]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [25]
9. Genghis Khan - Mongol Horde [13]
11. Gitarja - Goddess of the Three Worlds [5]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [25]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [26]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [21]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [34]
25. Poundmaker - Favorable Terms [4 - 3 = 1] - Favorable terms for whom? My enemy?
26. Qin Shi Huang - The FirstEmperor [22 + 1 = 23] - Magnus can chop one extra forest for an early district or wonder for every worker! Where do I sign up?
30. Shaka - Amabutho [24]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [29]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]