Leader Discussion - Catherine the Great

[disjointaccount]

We're barrelling throughthe alphabet now! A day late, but it's time to discuss Catherine the Great.
Her leader ability is Star of the North, which is a three-parter:

• +2 Culture per Age on displayed Great Works
• Buildings with Great Work slots gain an additional slot
• Cities settled in Tundra gain Science equal to 25% of their Culture per turn

Her attributes are Cultural and Scientific, giving her access to the Cultural Exchange and Research Collaboration endeavors, along with events for attribute points upon unlocking Chiefdom and Astronomy (per this post).
She has a starting bias for Tundra.
Playing as Catherine unlocks Norman (otherwise unlocked by improving 3 Iron or having 5 tiles with ancient walls), Mongolia (otherwise unlocked by improving 3 Horses or having 3 siege units) and Bulgaria (otherwise unlocked by having 3 Altars) in the Exploration Age, and Prussia (otherwise unlocked by having 3 Army Commanders or improving 3 Nitre) and Russia (otherwise unlocked by having three settlements in Tundra) in the Modern Age.
As an AI leader, her agenda is Dusha - Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount with player who has the most Great Works. Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount with the player with the least. Catherine the Great must have a Great Work for this to take effect.

So what are everyone's thoughts? Likes/dislikes? Strengths and weaknesses? Fun strategies? Good civs to pair her with?

 

[disjointaccount]

Catherine is probably one of my favourite leaders in 7 so far. I'm a big fan of kits where one tree yield begets another, and Catherine does exactly that. Playing one well rewards you with the other, which is a cycle I just enjoy.

The other two aspects of her leader ability are relatively uninteresting; the yields on great works is OK if you nab some very early codexes. If you manage to snag House of Wisdom (not out of the question with her culture can snowball) you'll get real rewards from amassing great works.

I think one of the strongest things about her is her spawn bias, though. She's the only thing in the game that gives a tundra bias, meaning you've likely got it to yourself, and it's where all the best resources are. Hides, Jade for mines, and way more I can't remember off the top of my head right now. An antiquity tundra start sets you up really nicely for the rest of the game.

Her civ unlocks aren't anything spectacular. The only one that might be tricky otherwise would be Russia, but her spawn bias would likely have led you to unlock that anyway. As for who she pairs with, I like Greece in antiquity for the culture buildings + rough bias for further quality improvement spam, and then doubling down on insane tree yields in exploration with Ming, Normans, or, if I managed to pull off the unlock, Abbasid - probably her best synergy. She probably also likes civs with extra access to great works, to get her boosts online sooner (and Rila Monastery).

By modern, civ choice probably doesn't even matter since you're in such a strong position, but a couple of obvious ones are Russia for the tundra synergy, Mexico for culture spam, or Meiji if you're more invested in the science side of things.

 

[Navelgazer]

Alright, Catherine! Who I haven't played with as much as some of the others, but enough to know that she's good, and plays differently enough to be interesting.

As disjointaccount says, her Tundra bias is one of, if not the best thing about her. No other leader or antiquity age civ gives you that, so you likely have at least some room up or down there (though you can get boxed in early if you're unlucky in your roll, and can have to deal with aggro IPs still.) But Tundra has great useful resources, and if you pair her with Greece (already a solid choice, for Culture synergy), then you get the rough terrain bias, and should be set for a strong Brickyard/Production start.

Extra Great Work slots are nice - less of a problem in Antiquity than in later ages. But even there, I feel like that aspect of her kit is less about finishing the Legacy Tracks associated with them than with getting more out of her Extra Culture for Great Works ability (which can then give you nice legacy bonuses if you really lean into it.

The final bit, with the bonus science, means prioritizing turning your Tundra settlements into cities over any non-Tundra ones. This can get interesting during Exploration (when you're likely settling in Distant Lands based on where the Treasure Resources are) and can divide your attention a bit if you don't luck out with a good Tundra Treasure spot or two, but that's not a huge downside.

The only other leader with Scientific/Cultural attributes is Ada Lovelace, who we've already discussed. These are probably the two best endeavors to have, especially in Antiquity. It all adds up to a very strong leader with a unique gameplay style.

 

[disjointaccount]

Alright, Catherine! Who I haven't played with as much as some of the others, but enough to know that she's good, and plays differently enough to be interesting.

As disjointaccount says, her Tundra bias is one of, if not the best thing about her. No other leader or antiquity age civ gives you that, so you likely have at least some room up or down there (though you can get boxed in early if you're unlucky in your roll, and can have to deal with aggro IPs still.) But Tundra has great useful resources, and if you pair her with Greece (already a solid choice, for Culture synergy), then you get the rough terrain bias, and should be set for a strong Brickyard/Production start.

Extra Great Work slots are nice - less of a problem in Antiquity than in later ages. But even there, I feel like that aspect of her kit is less about finishing the Legacy Tracks associated with them than with getting more out of her Extra Culture for Great Works ability (which can then give you nice legacy bonuses if you really lean into it.

The final bit, with the bonus science, means prioritizing turning your Tundra settlements into cities over any non-Tundra ones. This can get interesting during Exploration (when you're likely settling in Distant Lands based on where the Treasure Resources are) and can divide your attention a bit if you don't luck out with a good Tundra Treasure spot or two, but that's not a huge downside.

The only other leader with Scientific/Cultural attributes is Ada Lovelace, who we've already discussed. These are probably the two best endeavors to have, especially in Antiquity. It all adds up to a very strong leader with a unique gameplay style.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot to mention - we covered it a bit in the Ada thread but (imo) Cultural/Scientific is probably the single best attribute combo in the game. Another big asset for her.

 

[Navelgazer]

Her civ unlocks aren't anything spectacular. The only one that might be tricky otherwise would be Russia, but her spawn bias would likely have led you to unlock that anyway. As for who she pairs with, I like Greece in antiquity for the culture buildings + rough bias for further quality improvement spam, and then doubling down on insane tree yields in exploration with Ming, Normans, or, if I managed to pull off the unlock, Abbasid - probably her best synergy. She probably also likes civs with extra access to great works, to get her boosts online sooner (and Rila Monastery).

I'll just add that synergizing well with Greece is, I think, a pretty major plus for any leader on its own. As I said in the Greece thread, they are one of the strongest Antiquity civs for setting up later eras, but aren't necessarily super-powerful on their own (basically, their traditions and unique quarter carry on very, very well, while their bonuses take a bit too long to all come online to be as useful as they could be in Antiquity itself.) They're good, but just not A-Tier on their own. Having a good synergy with Greece can make for a super-powered run from the beginning, though. And Catherine's culture bonuses combined with Greece's culture generation (and a little luck with rolling the dice on Logioi) can give you a shot at Seven Wonders (IMO easily the hardest legacy path currently in Antiquity, and maybe across all ages - the randomness of Treasure Fleets gives it a run for its money, at least.)

And then, as you say, she's got great synergy with Abbasid, which is already probably the strongest Exploration-era civ (and possibly the strongest civ full-stop), though getting to them with her is tricky to say the least. Abbasid is one of the hardest gameplay unlocks already, and the tundra bias (and dependence on tundra settlements) makes it much harder for Catherine. One thing you can do here, though, is to pair her with Egypt, who also has good synergy, presuming that your start puts you in Tundra rather than Desert (hopefully on a Navigable river.) Then you get the Abbasid unlock automatically. Coming from Greece, provided that you don't secure the camels, Bulgaria is a great pairing. And then do whatever you want in Modern, because it barely makes a difference anyway (unless you've got Mexico unlocked, in which case, probably go with Mexico.)

 

[Lord Lakely]

I've got a fairly high opinion on Civ7's Cath. Rough Tundra (which you tend to get as Greece AND Rome) is amongst the best starts, gives great early production. If you spawn near a forest you also get culture from the trees, which she can then turn into Science. Russia is also a very good Modern Age Civ, they get so much food and population from settling in Tundra, and that's without the Science and Culture they get on top of that.

It's a very strong kit. Getting Codexes and Relics early is fairly easy and that solves most of your Culture issues which I feel is Ada's main weakness. (Ada REALLY needs a lot of Culture early and one Endeavour usually isn't enough to facilitate that). Bulgaria which Catherine automatically unlocks is a great Civ for her as well, she can just rush the Bulgarian Civic tree for Rila and then use her mines to build it and any wonder she wants. Majapahit can also be ridiculous with the free relics they get from their unique quarters, and then culture from marine tiles.

I don't think she's the strongest leader in the game - I believe that distinction is between Augustus, Tecumseh and Isabella, but she and Himiko_Wa round up the current top five imo.

 

[Krikkit1]

Playing as Catherine unlocks Norman (otherwise unlocked by improving 3 Iron or having 5 tiles with ancient walls), Mongolia (otherwise unlocked by improving 3 Horses or having 3 siege units) and Bulgaria (otherwise unlocked by having 3 Altars) in the Exploration Age, and Prussia (otherwise unlocked by having 3 Army Commanders or improving 3 Nitre) and Russia (otherwise unlocked by having three settlements in Tundra) in the Modern Age.

Are you sure she unlocks all of those? I thought she only unlocked Russia but tended to choose the others.

 

[disjointaccount]

Are you sure she unlocks all of those? I thought she only unlocked Russia but tended to choose the others.

As of 1.2.2, leaders unlock any civ that's suggested as any kind of choice for them (strategic, geographic, or historic). At least that's what the patch notes said; I haven't had the time to play a ton since the update.

 

[Nic@Melbourne]

You can’t see that extra culture on great works which annoys me.

 

[Leucarum]

I got her up to level 10 early... Then mostly stopped playing her. The great works game is not my favourite element of Civ7, she'll be a lot better once/if the devs do something more interesting with it.

 

[bengalryan9]

Oddly enough (and probably a complete coincidence) but I have yet to have Catherine show up as an opponent in a single game I've played.

 

[MutilationWave]

Oddly enough (and probably a complete coincidence) but I have yet to have Catherine show up as an opponent in a single game I've played.

I truly believe there is some kind of rivalry system in the background. I play against her regularly. My current game is the first I've played that didn't have that bastard Napoleon.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Oddly enough (and probably a complete coincidence) but I have yet to have Catherine show up as an opponent in a single game I've played.

It took about ten games for me too see Tecumseh as an opponent, or Trung Trac for that matter.

It happens sometimes.