[LP] Leader Spotlight: Nzinga Mbande

[Josephias]

As far as I can underestand of wiki content Nzinga is a name, but can be used as patronymic (the name of the father is used as a surname of the son), wich seems to be the case of Mbemva. (He is Mbemva “of” Nzinga - Nzinga is his father)

On the other hand, I have not been able to clarify if in the case of Mbande: Nzinga seems to be name, and Mbande does not always appear, but does not seem to be a surname.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

I'm a bit confused, isn't Nzinga supposed to be a last name? Why do you have Mvemba a Nzinga and her Great General's name was Ana Nzinga but her name is listed as Nzinga Mbande? Why suddenly a switch in order?

IIRC Mbande is her father’s name, and Nzinga is her given name. This would indicate a naming system kind of like Icelandic ones, where one’s last name references one’s father - I would be Andrew Robertsson, as my father is Robert, and my daughter would be Nzinga Andrewsdottr.

There’s plenty of different naming systems out there! Thais place first priority on the first name, though they have last names, and the formal way to call someone is by their first name. Some Indonesians have no last names at all. One could read a lot into this - a historical focus on karmic ancestry and not lineage, though that’s going a bit far, practically speaking. Really sticky last names are usually from societies that in the past had strong feudal systems tied to land inheritance (and commoners got made-up last names - Japanese commoner names, for instance, are great as snapshots of where a person was standing when the government agent went around handing out names - while nobles get lovely names like Washinotsu (eagles nest), commoners get names like Yamaguchi (at the entrance to the mountain) or Nakagawa (in the river))

Mvemba a Nzinga is from a different (slightly) ethnic and linguistic group; I wouldn’t assume the two Nzingas are identical. In some language it means “from the river” and in others “wrapped, twisted”.

Nzinga is sometimes written Njinga or Zinga or Jinga. Or, of course, Ana de Sousa, if you’re going around plopping Christian names on people.

Queens of Infamy: Njinga - Longreads

The Portuguese colonizers of West Central Africa learned it the hard way: you mess with the Queen of Ndongo and Matamba at your own peril.

longreads.com

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

IIRC Mbande is her father’s name, and Nzinga is her given name. This would indicate a naming system kind of like Icelandic ones, where one’s last name references one’s father - I would be Andrew Robertsson, as my father is Robert, and my daughter would be Nzinga Andrewsdottr.

There’s plenty of different naming systems out there! Thais place first priority on the first name, though they have last names, and the formal way to call someone is by their first name. Some Indonesians have no last names at all. One could read a lot into this - a historical focus on karmic ancestry and not lineage, though that’s going a bit far, practically speaking. Really sticky last names are usually from societies that in the past had strong feudal systems tied to land inheritance (and commoners got made-up last names - Japanese commoner names, for instance, are great as snapshots of where a person was standing when the government agent went around handing out names - while nobles get lovely names like Washinotsu (eagles nest), commoners get names like Yamaguchi (at the entrance to the mountain) or Nakagawa (in the river))

Mvemba a Nzinga is from a different (slightly) ethnic and linguistic group; I wouldn’t assume the two Nzingas are identical. In some language it means “from the river” and in others “wrapped, twisted”.

Nzinga is sometimes written Njinga or Zinga or Jinga. Or, of course, Ana de Sousa, if you’re going around plopping Christian names on people.

Queens of Infamy: Njinga - Longreads

The Portuguese colonizers of West Central Africa learned it the hard way: you mess with the Queen of Ndongo and Matamba at your own peril.

longreads.com

WOW! Thank you for such a detailed answer. If that is the case then I suppose there is no blood relation between her and our existing Kongolese leader? Since she appeared in game as a GG under the name of Ana Nzinga so I was always under a false impression that they were somehow related.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

No, they’re not related. At least not closely.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

No, they’re not related. At least not closely.

May I ask (just out of sheer curiosity, not a criticism or anything as such) why she was picked as a Kongolese leader despite never doing so in real life and didn't even have any connection or relation to the existing Kongolese leader? I am quite sure that problem was brought up at some points during development, can you give us a hint of how everything went down behind the scene?

Thank you

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm a bit confused, isn't Nzinga supposed to be a last name? Why do you have Mvemba a Nzinga and her Great General's name was Ana Nzinga but her name is listed as Nzinga Mbande? Why suddenly a switch in order?

Really it's calling her Ana Nzinga that's incorrect. Think of Nzinga as more of a titular thing than a name. According to wikipedia, her name is Nzinga Ana de Sousa Mbande, with the Ana de Sousa part being her christian name.

Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bbbt]

What this leads me to think is how they are going to handle the fact the “no religion” nerf was also a limit on Kongo’s CUA Nkisi providing free resources from Relics (as you had less relic slots available). ¿Maybe she’ll be blocked of building archeological museums to the same effect? (But she had an Arch. Museum in the screenshot, right?)

I wouldn't say it needs a nerf? Outside of few special circumstances/game modes, getting and storing a relic primarily still requires investing in a holy site, shrine, temple and apostle (and there's no guarantees on the apostle unless you have Mt St Michel or yerevan). It's a lot of investment. Archaeological museums can be a significant boost (especially when themed), but they come pretty late in the game comparatively.

The most I could see is pulling the bonus palace slots out of the CUA and making it just part of Mvembe's LUA, so she just has the normal 1 slot.

 

[AntSou]

Looking at maps on google and reading a bit, I vote on the language being a dialect from the Ambundu/Kimbundu language. Just a guess.

Does she literally say "I am Queen" as the translation implies? "Jinga" is also a term in portuguese for an ethnic group / language related to Kimbundu. And "Ki" seems to be some sort of prefix? It appears a lot.
---

Edit: maybe coincidentally if this is not correct, but according to an Angolan newspaper, "Kijinga" is a term used for some sort of crown and symbol of power and royal blood among the Kimbundu. I don't know if that's the word she says at the beginning though, just sounds like it.

Edit 2: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-43401024

I searched for "da ku diondo kimbundu" on google and got that as the second option on the list

Edit 3: Kima seems to be the word for "thing"? And Ji is used for plurals. "Jikima" = things? Is she saying to sit on "any things" rather than anywhere?

Edit 4: muahahaha! I found a Kimbundu - Portuguese dictionary

So "boso" = anywhere

Edit 5: Maybe it isn't Kima or Jikima that she says. Searching for Sit gives me the words Kuxikama / Kuxikina. I'm hearing "Jikima" but "Xikama" and "Xikina" are pretty similar.

Edit 6: Kijingu apparently stands for "High dignitary".

I should be working

Edit 7: I'm done, can't figure out the last bit, but "Zuela" appears in (another) dictionary in the section regarding "Speak".

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

May I ask (just out of sheer curiosity, not a criticism or anything as such) why she was picked as a Kongolese leader despite never doing so in real life and didn't even have any connection or relation to the existing Kongolese leader? I am quite sure that problem was brought up at some points during development, can you give us a hint of how everything went down behind the scene?

Thank you

“Everything that went down behind the scene” is explicitly something I CAN’T do! Sorry!

 

[Henri Christophe]

I don't believe any one in this thread complain about the fact Nzinga should lead the Ndongo and not the Kongo.
Someone in this forum said the Ndongo was vassals of Kongo. I just not found sources about that...
What I know, at time of Queen Nzinga, she just lead Ndongo by birth and Matamba by mariaged, never lead the Kongo kingdom.

Is very cool to have her as a civ in civ6, but, it should be doing historicaly correct to avoid historical confusion.

 

[blackbutterfly]

So anyone played Mbande on TSL Earth Huge (+Kandy)?

She is situationally very OP.
I was playtesting my map TSL Old World (UN Earth Maps) and even though I kinda messed up Kandy suzerainty for a long time I eventually got it, discovered some wonders for the free artifacts and then found a religion with reliquaries. (That gives 3x tourism).

Liberated a few Europeans. Voila! Culture win.

Actually Ursa Ryan made a YouTube:

 

[blackbutterfly]

Update: my earliest culture win (streamlining previous Mbande strat.)

Culture win just as I hit Medieval.

 

[Disgustipated]

small nit pick, but when she yells when denouncing me she doesn't really look like she's yelling. She didn't look all that mad actually. She still looks kind of cute and not mean enough.

 

[Abaxial]

Is it my imagination or has she been at the botox? She seems not to have much in the way of facial expressions.

 

[AntSou]

small nit pick, but when she yells when denouncing me she doesn't really look like she's yelling. She didn't look all that mad actually. She still looks kind of cute and not mean enough.

From what I've seen on youtube, the mismatch is even worse for Lincoln. The "grunting" and hat wavering doesn't really fit with the facial expression.