leaderhead reduction?

davidlallen

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As far as I know, the vanilla game engine supports up to 18 civs. So when I created the leaderhead/civs, I made 18. There are a few things I would like to do, that would be easier if there were fewer LH/civ. In particular, we should make a set of UU; and there have been a number of suggestions for themed city names to replace the vanilla ones. If I have to remove the creative trait, that would help too.

Can anybody think of a downside to reducing the number of LH/civ to 12? It still enables a huge game with 11 players.

I would pick the six most medieval looking leaderheads and remove them, pick the six least flavorful names and civs and remove them. Then we could maybe come up with 12 related UU. 12 sets of themed city names seems much easier than 18.

I can mix and match the backgrounds, but I'd probably remove the leaderhead for Ares, Keith, Max, Monty, Peter and Tinker. I found a different LH for Shiro for 0.7, otherwise he'd be on the list too.
 
Hmmm. I like to have more leaders, than necessary for one game - avoids meeting the same guys in every single game. So from the point of view of flavour the more the better.

However, i see how it would be easier to implement some features with less civs, so i will not "object" to a reduction.

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Note: A possibility could be reduce the number of civs to - say 12 - but give each civ 2 leaders. This acomplisches: Less UU/UB needed. However this would actrually increase the number of leaderhead-art needed...

And another Note: Have you seen this Guy. I made him a while ago without any real reason in mind, but he does not look medieval, and might fit the setting. The Sherif Badge and maybe the Hat (i dont remeber myself if i gave him a scull-cap :blush:) can be removed:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9245
 
My personal feeling is that we'd be better off we about eight leaders and adding a lot of falvour to them, then slowly increasing the leader count.
 
My personal feeling is that we'd be better off we about eight leaders and adding a lot of falvour to them, then slowly increasing the leader count.

I am not sure what happens if you try a huge (11 player => 10 AI) game with 8 leaders. Probably something bad. I agree adding a lot of flavor is the right approach, but I think we may need 12 rather than 8. I personally use huge games with AIAutoPlay to get statistics on what the AI does.
 
I play with 9 AI, so i need at lest that many :lol:
Overall thinking about it more - a reduction in number for improved quality is probably a good idea - it might even result in attracting more artist to the project.

For Autoplay experiments you could still use more than for the releases - those do not really need art :)
 
Possible leader background:

....

When she was she had seen seven years, the shaman sent for Durrgim Gugi.

“Durrgim,” he told her, “it is time that you awaken your spirit, for it has been in the dreamlands far too long and now it is time to learn the truth about yourself.” Seizing the young girl by her hand he pressed her face close the fire.

“What do you see, child?”

“I see the flames, dancing with one another. I see the smoke, wrapping around the fire. The smoke is cold and dark and full of evil. It wants to extinguish the fire which gave it life, for it jealous of the heat. I see a shadow-figure running swiftly through the embers. Each time the flames die down, the figure stokes them once more. It laughs and jumps and sings. The smoke cannot touch the figure, although it would clearly wish to destroy it.”

“And what shape is this figure?”

“It has the tail of the white rat and the form of a fruit bat.”

“Then it is as I feared, and I must speak the words of sorrow for what must happen next.”

Durrgim looked up into the old man’s eyes, but the shaman had seized a log from the ground. With a sharp cry, he struck her once on the head. As the dreamlands enveloped her, Durrgim heard the wodwose apologise.

* * *

For the next twenty years Durrgim only knew the cold, hard darkness of a cave, but she learnt much of the world around her. Her ancestors told her all the stories: Weedah the mocking bird and Mullyan the eagle-hawk, Bahloo the moon and Mayrah the wind that blows away the winter. Each day her ancestors would request she pass into the dreamlands, so that they could watch over her. Each day she dutifully obeyed, and when she awoke there would be food to eat and water to drink.

Then one day her ancestors told her that the Final Dream was coming. It was a time when she must bring the Awakening, for the serpent was trying to choke the land once more and she was needed. Durrgim did not understand, but the ancestors told her to prepare for the Final Dream. Then a great noise filled the air, leaving a silence more still than any Durrgim had known in its wake and there was the faintest shaft of light, beckoning Durrgim to follow.

This new dream was a beautiful. Such colours, such smells, such tastes and sensations. Durrgim finally understood the prophecy. Only one who knows the depths of the darkness can truly know the light.

....

This leader should represent aboriginal belief mixed with an optimism that borders on the naive. Although everyone else sees what they have lost in the fallen world, durrgim sees only the light, the potential and the hope, this is what draws people to her and makes her a leader.
 
I mentioned reducing the number of leaders in another thread, and I highly recommend it. If there are less leaders than are slots on the map, there will just be multiple civilizations with that leader.
 
I reviewed the 3D art. I think Tinker and Ares are not that bad - definitely the more unique ones (Like in "Not looking lika a obvious Vanilla reskin").

I dont like the new Shiro head. It looked ok i static, but on the animated LH the Samurai mask is to obviously just painted on the face.
Also Debbie LH is quite glitched.

I mentioned reducing the number of leaders in another thread, and I highly recommend it. If there are less leaders than are slots on the map, there will just be multiple civilizations with that leader.
Having multiple instances of the same Leader (including flag color, city list and the UU - if there are any) would be a atrocity no gameplay improvement can fix.
 
I'd say less tribes (civs), and if good enough art is available a second leader for (some of) the civs. Gives a bit more variation in gameplay for those of us who don't use the unrestricted leaders option.
 
I tried an experiment last night with reducing the number of leaders, and independently reducing the number of civs. It is definitely odd ("atrocity" may be too strong :) to play a game with 3 Maxes, 4 Micks and 2 Stevies. But at least there is no game error.

Let us aim for 12, rather than aiming for 8.

Regarding the current leaderheads, let me point any newcomers to my summary page with graphics at this link and the statistics at this link.

What I need is 12 each of:

* LH character graphics
* background graphic (I think I have enough for 12)
* flag (either vanilla, or new graphics)
* character concept
* good first city name
* 20 other city names

I will update the statistics page with a thumbnail and the additional fields, and then keep it up to date as we add more details.

On LH graphics, there is ongoing debate about 3D vs 2D. For myself, I don't have any way to create 2D character art; so I would prefer to stick with the 3D LH. I will keep trying with the LH development community to make some more post-apocalyptic LH. This time around, I will try a couple of very specific requests instead of general, and also try PM'ing recent LH authors.

@refar, on the new Shiro, at least he is more post-apo themed than the previous. I took the paint job on the face to be makeup, rather than a mask, so I expected it to move with the face. The big problem with Ares, in particular, is that gold and purple armor looks highly Roman and not post-apo theme. If the armor was reskinned to look post-apo, I agree the anim and the rest is good.
 
12 Sounds like a good number.

Also GeoModders input - 12 Civs and adding more art if avaiable sounds good.

-----

I am not sure if you want LH art in the New Art thread or here. I think here makes some sense.

You are might be right on shiro - i played with static art and kind of took the face for a samurai mask, so seeing the make up went agains my expectation.

I also browsed a bit...

I would Suggest using this one from Amra instead of Boadica Graphic. I think he look more "modern" and hence closer to post apocalyptic.
Assuming Monthy Gone/Replaced as well this would leave us with no single unchanged Vanilla Face.
The Hat can go away if you want it too.


Ekmek released a few new LH's that could be of use:
Hector might Replace Ares - the face is mor eunique, the armor less roman.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9975

I gave a try to a "Generic Post-Apo Guy". Went indeed unexpected fast, as i was not bound by any Original Face to Match. Of course the helmet made it easier... Unfortunately not everyone can wear a helmet...
I think he could replace ironhead.

The Model is done, Skinning - obviously - need some work yet.
 
OK, another background for another leader, ripped straight off of Diamond Dogs, but heck the intro ripped off Rod Stewart anyway, so I guess it's a backhanded compliment... I'll let you have fun spotting all the references:

*****

Man, we must’ve smoked some freaky . .. .. .. . that night. It’s still fuzzy in my head. Only Jack could have held a concert in that bunker on his estate at the end of the world. Grey concrete and post-industrial chic meshed with bright colours and freaky graffiti and silks and cushions like a harem. He calls it Usher. He flings his doors open and tells everyone to come. And they do. It’s weird though cos Jack’s got his own standards. You, you, not you, you with the come to bed eyes, especially you! Some jerk turns up dressed in black like a funeral and Jack chucks him out.

“This aint no wake,” goes Jack “I’m not at home to the miseries. I'm going down banging.” Always face the curtain with a smile. So it goes.

And the guests? It must have been every bozo from here to here to New Mexico. That Thai woman constantly puffing her cigarette. Well I guess she wasn’t going to have worry about lung cancer. Some failed general from Columbia turns up with the finest grade A coke. He’s handing it out on trays on top of dwarves and eunuchs, for chrissakes. Some scientist with a hairdo like Einstein discussing Wittgenstein with a German girl who looks like she’s stuck in the eighties. There’s a cop bent down at the feet of a priest. I don’t even want to say what they were up to but the bloke in the corner almost threw up over them.

“Screw it,” goes Jack, “you can’t take it with you.” So it goes.

And Jack picks up an umbrella and rings a large gong like at the start of those old movies and out comes all this wine and food. Caviar and quails eggs and Beaujolais; all that stuff you saw at those celebrity weddings in glossy magazines, only it’s real and it’s all for us.

“1961 Margaux,” goes Jack and he pulls out the cork with his teeth and spits it on the floor. Then he shakes up the bottle and turns it upside down and opens his mouth and guzzles down everything that fits in his throat. So it goes.

There’s golden drapes nearby and Jack rubs his hands down them provocatively and starts singing. It all opulence and extravagance and no-ones bothered any more. Before long everyone’s on the floor, throwing cushions at one another. There’s feather flying here and there and young lovers are pulling off their clothes and letting all their flesh hang out. Must have been like Roman times. The band just keeps on playing. They’re all dressed up like some gig on the Titanic.

“Party like it’s nineteen-ninety-nine,” goes Jack, conducting a band using an... unorthodox... baton. So it goes.

And then there’s an alarm bell and warnings and beeps and buzzes, and this great metal door starts closing over the entrance hall, grinding and thunking as it goes, and Jack puts on a mask and tells us that Red Death is about to arrive and wouldn’t we like to see the whore of Babylon before the end and a telly comes on showing the world in flames and he leads us in a chant.

“Leonard Bernstein! Leonard Bernstein! Leonard Bernstein!” So it goes.

And we all brace for the impact, clutching the ones we love the most. Only it don’t work that way. Seems whoever built Usher had a sick sense of humour, cos it didn’t fall after all. It stands right up to the world and blow a raspberry in it’s face, but we’re all to wasted to care.

And the next day we’ve got the hangover from hell. But it was worth it. So it goes.

*****

Image: http://www.solarnavigator.net/music/music_images/Ziggystardust.jpg

Basic concept: An eccentric Rock Star who ends up leading a tribe of survivors who were in his bunker at the time of the Scourge. Should be relatively unpredictable, ideally having Creative and Aggressive traits. All his comments in the diplomacy screens should be lines from rock songs (e.g. "War? Huh? What is it good for?" or "Help me if you can I'm feeling down")

Possible City Names: Graceland, Neverland, Bohemia, Metropolis, Purple Love Palace, Birdland, Highway 61....
 
OK, another background for another leader, ripped straight off of Diamond Dogs[...]
Basic concept: An eccentric Rock Star who ends up leading a tribe of survivors who were in his bunker at the time of the Scourge. Should be relatively unpredictable, ideally having Creative and Aggressive traits.[...]
Possible City Names: Graceland, Neverland, Bohemia, Metropolis, Purple Love Palace, Birdland, Highway 61....

I like it. Can you push it up to 20 city names? Which is the right *capitol* name that will always be the first city? I don't have a good way to get custom LH art, either 2D or 3D, but could the concept work with any of the LH I already have (Aelwyn ?? gender changes in the text (possibly :)) Flag? UU?
 
The Capital is Usher (as in "Fall of the house of...") The city names are taken from rock stars homes or rock songs. Queen own the rights to the film "Metropolis", so that also fits right in.

So following that tack:

1. Usher
2. Graceland
3. Neverland
4. Bohemia
5. Metropolis
6. Jungleland
7. Strawberry Fields
8. Penny Lane
9. Birdland
10. Highway 61
11. Route 66
12. Stardust
13. Altamont
14. Union City
15. The Country House
16. Wonderwall
17. Waterloo
18. Misty Mountain
19. Street Spirit
20. Hawkmoon 269

Flag: Something vivid, lurid and bright.
UU: Maybe some kind of sonic artillery weapon powered by an electric guitar.
 
I realize that this mod is mostly a "Mad Max" mod, but one take on the leaders is that they could be the leaders of factions as the world went to hell.

For example, in Alpha Centauri, we had factions on the UN starship that left Earth. Contact with Earth was lost. So maybe you could use some of those factions from AC to represent the part of those factions that couldn't fit on the UNS Unity and since they were very organized to get their people on the ship, when things went from bad to Apocalyptic, they survived.

I'm thinking you'd be able to use:
1) The Gaians: They'd obviously want to fix the planet and instead of affinity for Planet life, they might be able to tame mutants and the like the same way Hunters, Rangers do in FfH.
2) Morgan Industries: I would think they would be like "Water & Power" in the movie Tank Girl.
3) The Human Hive: I think these guys are pretty much like they'd be in AC.
4) Spartan Federation: Obviously we'd have the survivalist. They'd start out with maybe a heavier vehicle.
5) The Lord's Believers: I've said in many of my posts that I think there should be a civic class that represents a theme for the type of tech the Civ will use. So regardless of your vision, which tech will you use? While the Gaians would use something bio/planet related, I would think the Lord's Believers would be Luddite, hate technology and want to cleanse the planet of the old ways and return things to a 'simpler time'. Like in AC, they'd have lots of cheap, low tech units and crusade like a banshee!
6) The University: Obviously a group of scientists working out of some secret base. I'd think they'd start with some neat stuff but would get a penalty for growth and the like because these are nerdy scientists and now the world if very messy. (I might have to dirty my hands! HORRORS!)
7) The Nautilus Pirates: I can see these, especially if you change the map to have more water (more on that in a different forum) and allow for ships.

The other Civs from AC or AC:AC might not work as well. However, depending how 'sci-fi' you wanted to go, the Planet Consciousness might be changed to some sort of mutant group where the leader is a mutant with powers and they would have mutatate flavored units.
 
What I need is 12 each of:

* flag (either vanilla, or new graphics)

There are a few flag-packs released.

The most recent ne by Dvalin:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=283648

Who also anounced in his thread to make custom ones on request :mischief:
Perhaps he could help producing the needed flags and also coosing really different colors - having limited it to 12 civs, maybe we will be able to avoid having 3 Pink ones in every single game. (Something that is bugging me on Unmodded civ as well...)

I think "Semi-fictive" flags migh be best - it is likely the survivors will try to keep some of the pre-war symbols, adapting them for they needs.
 
I think "Semi-fictive" flags migh be best - it is likely the survivors will try to keep some of the pre-war symbols, adapting them for they needs.

A good site for this is: http://flagspot.net/flags/

What I like, is they have an entire section of fictional flags by book, film and the like. I really like the page (http://flagspot.net/flags/fic-nazi.html) that shows all the variants of Nazi flags. (I kicked myself for not catching that 'RoboCop' OCP corp was a Nazi variant flag.
 
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