"Legitimate" pretext for war?

[1940LaSalle]

I'll keep this as generic as possible.

I'm playing as Bismarck, and while a couple of neighboring civs (e.g., the French) have territory and cities, they have squat in terms of tangibles with which to make deals--and nothing in the way of techs to trade with, either. The point is, naturally, that they're something of an obstruction to consolidation of the greater German republic: more to the point, I want those cities and environs!

Now, every so often, one of their units wanders into German territory and so far I've made nice, telling Joan to tell her guys to get their *sses out of German territory, and then trying to put a deal on the table to show I'm not so much of a hardcase after all. Thus far, no deal since they have nothing to deal.

So: given that French units wander in every so often, given that the French have squat with which to deal, and given that they're repeat offenders (to use the term very loosely!) would that constitute a legitimate, my-patience-is-at-an-end reason to go to the mattresses? Or am I likely to get hosed by the AI in the long run?

 

[Turner]

As far as the *game* is concerned, so long as you declare war without any units in their territory, that's legitimate enough. So long as you don't RoP Rape them, any reason for war is a good one. You shouldn't be penalized for it.

 

[CommandoBob]

Difficulty level might make a difference in what the best answer is.

In the game, any reason for war is a good one. You think that Joan's Musketeers need to brush their teeth more often, like once a month? That's a good enough reason to start a war.

The only real thing to be concerned about is that you must not have any units inside French territory, including coastal waters, and also including non-military units like workers and settlers. If you do have units across the borders when you start the war, your trading reputation takes a huge hit. In turn, that means your ability to pay for things via gold-per-turn goes away or becomes hugely expensive.

The AI's aren't concerned about why you go to war. They just want to be sure that you play by the rules, even though they do not.

There are plenty of tips around here on how to wage war well, if you need them.

Edit:
Cross post with Turner.

 

[capnvonbaron]

Also, I might add, do not be worried about other AIs being "annoyed" or "furious" with you for going to war with another country. It doesn't mean your trade rep took a hit, it just means they're not happy at you for either growing in size by the sharpened steel method, or because the civ you are invading is giving them something and you put an end to it.

I had a recent game much in the same fashion as yours. I chose random civ and random AIs. The computer decided to plop me as Germany on the south end of a medium sized continent with the french on one side, the brits on the other, and the russians up north (think of the continent as a big cross with the middle part being a big inland sea [filled with british ships ]... oh yeah, the chinese were there too, but they foolishly declared on me right as I was building lots of knights. Naturally, I was forced to eliminate them.) Now its the early modern age, I have a crapload of Panzers built up, a strong industrial core, and the three of them have been jerks to me the whole game, but because of it I have refused to trade them techs so they all barely have replaceable parts... HMMMMMMMMMMMMM what to do?? -time!

 

[Shylock]

This isn't a Paradox game, there is no BadBoy rating.

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . The only real thing to be concerned about is that you must not have any units inside French territory, including coastal waters, and also including non-military units like workers and settlers. . . .

There is one other thing about which you should be concerned: Be sure that DOWing won't break any per-turn exports (of either gold or goods). In the case of gold, just be sure that you're not paying the target civ gpt. In the case of goods, like luxes or resources, be sure that you're not either exporting these goods to the target civ, or to another civ with a trade route that goes through the target civ's territory. The last one is the tricky one for me.

 

[joycem10]

or to another civ with a trade route that goes through the target civ's territory. The last one is the tricky one for me.

Thats burned me a number of times, usually early in the game when roads and harbors arent very extensive.

 

[Aabraxan]

You and me both, joycem10.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Whoops - wrong thread.

 

[NickyH]

One thing to keep in mind, if you want a war, is that if your neighbor declares on you, you can benefit from war happiness.

You might achieve that if you start to make impossible demands on your target, like demanding their biggest city except for the capital, or a couple of tech. Repeat this annoying behavior until they are furious, and then ask them to leave your territory. With a bit of luck, they'll declare war on you.

 

[Turner]

Failed spy missions work too. But when you try to fail a spy mission, you usually end up succeeding.

 

[Diviner]

about heedless declarations of war:

so you plan to put Persia out of business, but have an ongoing trade agreement with France. the trade route goes from your only harbor to theirs and you do not have ocean or sea trade (AA or early MA). now imagine when a lone xerxes-galley comes and blocks the coastway... oh yeah, wasted trade rep for you

 

[1940LaSalle]

OK...don't have the game open in front of me at the moment so I'm doing this from memory. Anyhow, to the best of my knowledge, there are no trade routes that would be severed (at this point I believe everyone is into the Middle Ages but just barely). Also, there are no existing per-turn agreements that would be wiped out by virtue of a war declaration. Finally, I believe--not 100% certain but easily rectified if not true--that no units of my own are within the future opponent's territory/territorial waters.

I guess the pretext is that I'm tired of getting the brushoff when I'm trying to make deals to make their miserable existences better...

 

[CommandoBob]

I guess the pretext is that I'm tired of getting the brushoff when I'm trying to make deals to make their miserable existences better...

Wrong pretext, but I've had that mindset, too. Not any longer. The AI just doesn't understand Nice.

You should be giving them the brushoff, not the other way around.

They are not the Master, you are.

If they disagree:

&

 

[darski]

Wrong pretext, but I've had that mindset, too. Not any longer. The AI just doesn't understand Nice.

You should be giving them the brushoff, not the other way around.

They are not the Master, you are.

If they disagree:

&

I always have a major problem with this myself. I have no idea why I think that the AI will appreciate anything you do for them when their goal is to win the game or crush the one who might win.

 

[Sashie VII]

I used to have that mentality too. I remember my first ever win as China (Chieftain), where Japan was reduced to OCC by China (me) in the AA, but during late MA and IA they're polite towards me and I even had obsolete units surround their city as 'protection.'

How time changes you

 

[TheOverseer714]

If you choose to roleplay, then you might want a legitimate pretext for war that fits how your leader thinks. If you just play the game, then "because I want to" works just fine.

 

[Quiet Sound]

This page should answer all questions.

 

[drakonius]

the AI does not understand nice.no memory.no gratitude. i have been kind and neighborly to any number of civs during my gaming days.most of them will betray you and try to do you in. usually for no reason that a human mind could probably understand-except perhaps pure stupidity or pure perversity.well... no normal human mind at least. sometimes i just wait for the AI to attack me so that i can beat the snot out of it and perhaps shoot some nukes. to my mind need is the most legitimate pretext for war- need of land and\or resources.normally i manage to secure adequate land and resources without having to resort to war. once playing as America I did bully the Persians out of a city with their only source of oil. i sent a massive stack of strong uits to their capital and gave them an ultimatum"Danzig or War".the Persians folded and a war was avoided.

 

[1940LaSalle]

Update: I got fed up with the French after offering a deal; when they told me no deal, I declared war just for Joan's insolence. Not a long war of attrition but a relatively short war ensued. I captured the one city I'd had my eye on in the first place, did some damage to another, and wiped out a couple of their units; they sank a galley in the lone naval encounter. Militarily, it would seem like they got the short end and sued for peace. Since they didn't have squat to offer in terms of tangible goods, I let them off with losing one city and a threefold source of wines.

Meanwhile, Hannibal allows his guys to encroach every now and then; I kick them out and it usually lasts for a while. I may have to teach Elephant Boy a lesson sooner or later; we'll see.