Let railroad movement be moddable in the editor. I hate infinite railroad movment!!!

Let's say one civ tile represents 50 square kilometers

A civ tile is actually officially 100 square miles. How I know this - take a look at your demographics. You'll find that your total area in square miles is the number of tiles within your borders times 100.

How many toilets are there one 1 square km? Let's be really conservative and say 5 toilets per km. So we get 50 x 5 = 250 toilets per civ tile. How does your game look warpstorm with 250 toilet images on each tile?

What the hell? How is that relevent in even the slightest way? Even if toilets were, for some inexplicable reason, represented on the map, they would be less than one pixel in size when 100 square miles is only a tile, so the point is doubly-mooted!
[edit]stupid ending tag[/edit]
 
Originally posted by toh6wy
A civ tile is actually officially 100 square miles. How I know this - take a look at your demographics. You'll find that your total area in square miles is the number of tiles within your borders times 100. Absolutely. I was just being very conservative with my numbers to avoid an exaggeration.



What the hell? How is that relevent in even the slightest way? Reread the post over and over and eventually you'll see the light. ;) Even if toilets were, for some inexplicable reason, represented on the map, they would be less than one pixel in size when 100 square miles is only a tile, so the point is doubly-mooted! According to your logic, then there should be no railroads, roads soldiers, workers, cavalry etc at all in the game. Have you modded your game to be blank?
[edit]stupid ending tag[/edit]
 
If we assume that RRs represent the evolution of modern transport systems, why not have it represent both carrying capacity and infrastructure. This capacity could expand with the track system through new techs, new resources, new buildings and shields.

For example, when you first discover Steam power and link up coal you have the ability to build "X" RR tiles where "X" is equal to the distance from your capital to the furthest city on the continent. The tracks could be built anywhere, but the number of tiles is determined by that distance. Furthermore, the number of units you could move by RR in a turn would be equal to, say, half the number of cities you control. As your empire grows, rail capacity would grow naturally.

Production endeavors could change the calculation of these limitations. Players could build RR stations that would add to unit/turn capacity or they could build "tracks" in cities; these tracks would be built in blocks of 10 or 20 squares and would add to the number of RR tiles you could have workers complete. Once 20 tracks are built in city production, workers could lay 1 square per turn per worker on the map.

New techs (refining, motorized transport etc.) or new resources would automatically increase capacity multipliers and reduce cost of new track production.

I would add a maintenance cost per track tile that you had the option to pay and if neglected too long, capacity would drop and track could disappear (like pollution effects).

Then as a warmonger, I could bomb individual track tiles to limit delivery destination options for the AI or I could attack train stations in cities to reduce capacity. As an empire collapses, rail capacity would drop also.

With such a scenario, I think that rail growth would be slowed and better reflect changes over time and we wouldn't have quite the unbalancing effects of unlimited units over unlimited space. As a human player I think this would add to the game. I don't know how or if the AI could handle it.
 
Originally posted by unscratchedfoot
Aha! "A couple of days" is the key here, not instant. Can't you see my point now? Instant does not equal a couple of days. And do railroads cover each and every square metre of landspace in weird looking swirls where you live?

Considering Civ3 speed is measured in year, making it infinite instead of 1/365 of a movement points seems like not much of a sctrech.

I still think it should be moddable.
 
Call To Power had a better road system in my opinion. And Rails had horizontal lines on them ..like...rails do...they were not infinite movement but close , i think it went , roads, highways, rails then went into future tech stuff that was infinite.
 
If you don't like how the Railroads look change them to a different coloured road.

I use thin roads brown colour and thin roads grey as my Railroads
It looks good to me... but what do I know...just a thought.
 
let's make -1 food for tiles with railroads (and always 50% shield) there will be less railroad around ;)
Or railroads could make pollution or something that we just use them to travel between cities.

(edit: like reduce corruption a little bit more than road)
 
Not for me. If a rail gives any speed up (doesn't even have to be infinite), I will railroad my entire land on general principles.
 
Or railroads could make pollution or something that we just use them to travel between cities.

Actully railway is the least pollutive transport there is, maybe with the exeption of ships.
 
sorky said:
let's make -1 food for tiles with railroads

Wow, this is unrealistic. Food production went up a lot in the 19th century due to the rail system. Okay it wasn't actually production, but rather it was distribution. Since food could get from where it was produced to where it was needed more efficiently, the effective amount of food in the cities sky-rocketed.
 
Yes but not on the tile where railroad is. Railroad's company buy terrain where plantation could be. Anyway it's just to don't cover the world with those horrible grey line ;)
 
I like the look of railroads over roads... much cleaner and slicker looking.

The infinate movement rate is helpful for players like me that prefer peace games over war games. Workers move around a lot lot faster and I can improve terrain faster. Plus, when I'm invaded, it's nice to have my troops move quickly through their own home country, terrain they know very well.

And, I also agree with warpstorm's reasoning. If a turn is x amount of years, day trips on a rialroad shouldn't take multiple turns.
 
unscratchedfoot said:
Aha! "A couple of days" is the key here, not instant. Can't you see my point now? Instant does not equal a couple of days. And do railroads cover each and every square metre of landspace in weird looking swirls where you live?

One turn is 1+ years..
 
unscratchedfoot said:
In conclusion, railroads in civ3 are both unrealistic and are way ugly. I did a quick forum search and found a pageful of threads on this exact same topic. Here a couple. Read them and save yourselves the bother of reposting the same nonsense about turns being a year long so all movement should be instant yaddy ya...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72294&highlight=railroads

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48667&highlight=railroads

Seriously, read these. These arguements are have been bounced back and forward loads already. The only thing that can ever be agreed upon is it needs to be modable!
 
Qpdaj said:
I suppose they could do something like make "trains" which could hold, er, five (to accomodate armies) units and could travel 10 or 15 or whatever tiles. Loading and unloading the trains would be just like boats; in a city it would be free, but elsewhere it would cost movement. Only trains would get the increased movement by rail. All other units would only get the road bonus.

I don't like the train idea, cause it adds unusefull actions that only slow down the game...

Modding the movement rate of the tiles with rails could do it... but allowing you to move your units larger distances only from city to city expending their turn movement (like an airport)

Mostly tough, I like the way it is now... because once I have built a rail net on my country I can focus on invading not on defending... :scan:
 
sure game turns are long enough to warrant moving around the world in one turn, but they are also long enough to: (taking one year)
-Build multiple city improvents
-travel 5000+ miles by foot
-travel 10000+ miles by horse
-travel 200000+ miles by car (with 1 driver only)
-travel 100000+ miles by boat

in other words: if you would take the time for real, everything could be done in 1 turn.

If you compare it to the speed of the other things in civ, the infinite movement is rediculous. Only airlifts should be possible to use for infinite speed travel (with reduction of railroad speed, it might be reasonable to have a few more airlifts per airport (maybe a set number like 5 or maybe depending on the amount of citizens in the city with airport)
 
I think a lot of people here are missing the main point...

Just because it's 'realistic' doesn't mean it's fun or good for gameplay!

The fact that you can move an army instantly anywhere on a landmass (and instantly anywhere in the world with ship-chaining) lessens the amount of strategic planning necessary for war. This is why I like the early Medieval Era best... there aren't roads or RRs everywhere, you don't have units that can move instantly, and you have good balance between all the different types of units. It's fun. Moving 100 Modern Armor and using a few offensive fort cities to conquer a civ in one turn is not fun.

If the problem is Workers are too hard to manage without RRs, then fix that problem... don't try to patch it up with infinite movement and create further problems.
 
Trip said:
Moving 100 Modern Armor and using a few offensive fort cities to conquer a civ in one turn is not fun.

Personnals tastes. I think it's fun. I like to don't care about defense of a city far from capital.

Trip said:
If the problem is Workers are too hard to manage without RRs, then fix that problem... don't try to patch it up with infinite movement and create further problems.


Personnals statements base on tastes.. we can't discuss this. Men from Firaxis like the way it works and, I think, the majority of players too. For those who don't like, the only problem is that RR's not moddable. But don't shot at them because they create further problems base on your way of playing.
 
I think it's always better to have it moddable. There is no negative effects of that. I do like infinite movement though.
 
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