Let's make Civ 5

[Stuck in Pi]

uh, no partisan unit in Civ III. Late game no resource unit was TOW infantry.

 

[rysmiel]

I almost 100% agree with you. Not to be rude, but most every suggestion and idea I see in these threads will just add TONS of unneeded micromanagment/complexity/balance issues.

Thing is, there are a fair few people who very strongly disagree on the "unneeded". No Civ installment has yet been complex enough to be ideal for me, and micromanagement is a major part of the fun of the game.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

uh, no partisan unit in Civ III. Late game no resource unit was TOW infantry.

You may be right: my memory may be at fault. But I it doesn't affect my argument, and I think "partisan" would be a better name for the unit.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Thing is, there are a fair few people who very strongly disagree on the "unneeded". No Civ installment has yet been complex enough to be ideal for me, and micromanagement is a major part of the fun of the game.

I completely agree.

 

[alms66]

You may be right: my memory may be at fault. But I it doesn't affect my argument, and I think "partisan" would be a better name for the unit.

Yeah, Partisans were in civ2.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Yeah, Partisans were in civ2.

Yes, I remember them. They were a pretty neat unit, but not anywhere near as glorious as those little black-clad guys in Civ III.

 

[Cyberviking]

Its getting back to this debate whether Civ's civs are supposed to follow their real world versions or if you are supposed to direct them and influence them. We already have different countries having traits and things. You don't see England or the Celts being more likely to build Stone Henge, or China more likely to build the Great Wall, France doesn't get a bonus to build the Eiffel Tower. Civ is supposed to be a civilisation simulator not real life! I always think it is funny when Ghandi declares war on me! It isn't the real Ghandi after all and it is silly to think that a Civilisation would be have the same traits from the beginning of time to the end of time.

I agree. Maybe the creators of civ 5 should rather create more scenarios/mods instead, that would give you more reality, and the game will still not turn out to be a documentary about the world history. The scenarios/mods made by us fanatics are often a bit messy, and the graphics in amateur mods doesn't always fit togethger. (don't get insulted folks!)

I could personally give a couple more years of waiting and spend a bit more money to get a civ 5 with a larger amount of well made mods and scenarios.

Another idea woud be to make civ more neutral. Wonders can get neutral names like "Great Monument", "Great University", "Great Temple" etc. and gain the cultural look of their "motherciv". (Be aware! This is just taken out of my crazy mind)

 

[Scilly_guy]

No I like the Idea of Wonders being real world wonders, thats part of civ, it would be nice if there was a different game that did it differently, like you could build a church and hire a famous local artist to paint it, thus creating the Sistine Chapel, although then everyone would be doing that. Often the wonders only became so amazing later after the people who made them had long since died, I mean stone henge was amazing to the people that built it but now a days we're still impressed that back then they could move these stones such enormous distances. The Eiffel Tower was built to last 25 years, that was nearly 120 years ago, it was built to celebrate Frances technological prowess and was the tallest structure in the world for 40 years. There are many things that were built to be great and showy, but most were built for function, the Great Wall was built for defence, and is the Great Wall because it is so long and successful, Hadrian's wall in northern England was only 4ft high in some places but it crossed the entire country, it did its job just like the Great Wall of China.

Anyway, where was I, ah yes, I don't want more scenarios, I never play them, I find the idea of a Custom, random game much more appealing. I want to see countries evolve and their philosophies become defined, Switzerland doesn't like to get involved with other people politics. The Japanese have a lot of respect for honour. These aren't necessarily defined by the country when it is founded, but by the situation it grows in.

 

[rhinoman]

I like the idea of real world wonders too as it makes you feel like its actually the world and not so generic. Civilization is a game and a simulation of possible things that would happen but its not an animation. China should get NO automatic advantage for building the great wall. But in earth scenarios they would still get an advantage as their country's so large and they get so much barbarian attacks In normal games maybe another civ would get lots of barbarian attacks and would build it. For scenarios I actually like them more then normal games most of the time. they are fun and are usualy more plausable simulators then normal games. The real key is to get normal games to naturally feel like sinerios instead of the choppy games they turn out to be half the time. I want to feel like a ruler when i play civ not just like a gamer. One thing I find odd about the great wall in civ is that it incompases the entire civ that built it owned continent instead of just part of it as it did in real life.

 

[sangeli]

The following suggestions are very difficult to realize but whatever. Additionally, each suggestion requires some others, for example suggestion 2 can't work without suggesion 1. Most of thses suggestions are for war mods such as the Road To War, but others are universal.

1. Advanced tile. I think the system right now for tiles is terrible: each tile is just to big for the map. On the other hand, making tiles smaller would make each map way too giant and annoying. So, I came up with a compromise. In the general view each tile is the same as it was in Civ 4. Howevery, you should be able to have a zoom tile button that breaks up the tile into a four by four square. Each mini tile would have a different terrain than the other (for example if the tile itself was hills then more than say half of the minitiles would have hills on them). Movement cost in a minitile is obviously one fourth of normal.

2. Brigades and other unit modifications Limit the number of units to a tile to eight. Each unit is to be a division and is therefore broken up into four brigades when on any tile. Each brigade can occupy a different minitile in each tile with a limit of two per minitile. The strength of each brigade is the same. The reason for this this modification is 1. putting too many units on a single tile is lame because in real life you simply cant do that 2. Makes strategies such as flanking and encirclement not just some stupid upgrade (just wait and ill explain).

3. Logistical and supply lines When a unit is created you have to pick what city is his command center (must be one of the five largest cities and if you change command centers the unit cannot move for three turns). Before radio, each unit requires a line of command and if it is disrupted then you cannot control the unit, it does whatever it wants. After radio you dont have lines of command but if the city that has the command center is captured then the unit does whatever it want for three turns. Each unit has a meter of how much food, water, ammunition, and fuel it has. When a unit runs out of food then it looses health each turn, when out of water it automatically dies, and when out of fuel or ammunition it surrenders and turns into a POW (explain later). Obviously for units that travel on horse or by foot they dont need fuel. After each turn a unit uses a certain percentage of water and food, after each battle a certain percentage of ammo, and after each move a certain amount of fuel. As long as supply lines are intact then the unit automatically fills the next turn. But if supply lines are cut off then they use the supplies as explained earlier. Also, units who are out of food or water may pillage tiles refill. All supply lines must connect to one of the five largest cities. Supply lines are only roads and railroads, nothing else. Since each tile is comprised up of minitiles, making it so that roads do not fill the entire tile and that only two brigades can fit in one minitile this has a few very important and great impacts. The major implication, and my favorite, is that it makes blitzkrieg a viable option. For those who don't know, Blitzkrieg is not just about surprise warfare but also, among other things, encirclement. Once you encircle an enemy and cut off his supply lines with these modifications, that enemy is at a severe disadvantage. He must fight his way out of the encirclement or else he is completely screwed. This makes the game SO much better because military strategy is not just brute force, there is intricate strategy of how to defeat enemies.

4. New modes of attack defense Combined with the minitile idea, new modes of attack could make the game so much better. The first thing is that any brigade that fortifies can only fortify itself in one direction. That is they get a defense bonus if the attack comes from that side. That makes flanking a real strategy to utilize. When you attack from the side you get say a 50 percent bonus. Better than that is that you can do a combined attack with one other brigade on another tile. That way you can flank from both sides and get a 75 percent bonus. Flanking is just one example and I will only explain a few more, but there are definitely many more modes of attack and defense. A defense action that automatically engages another unit in an adjacent minitile and one that fires artillery whenever another unit is within its range, hold at all costs defense and retreat if necessary defense etc... Also, at any time when you are in another countries land during war or when you are surrounded, you may capitulate that unit to turn into POW as explained later.

5. Resource modification To me it seems absurd that you can have one oil resource but supply a million tanks. I therefore propose that each resource work much like how money works in the game. Each city depending on its size uses a certain amount of a resource per turn and so do units and buildings. This way having multiple resources of the same thing actually means something. This would make the game way better in my opinion.

6. Linear population and exponential growth In opinion, one population point of a city should equal a given non variable number of people, for example a city of 1 million has 100 population and a city of 100 thousand has 10. The number of people per population point should change as you change eras, which makes logical sense. Poplation growth should not be dependent on food but rather you set it yourself (I know it sounds totalitarian). The wat to make it so that people dont just set the percent to the highest is to have three age demographics, 0-17, 18-55, 55+. Only people in the middle demographic actually contrubite wealth and and work points to the city while the other two just cost money. So any person who decides to set the growth rate the highest will have too many people from the lower demographic and thefore suffer. To make this population modification work, you need a food modification. Food production should be cumiltive based on reaching a certain tech meaning that food from one part of the empire can supply a city somewhere else. Also, after a certain tech you should be able to plant certain resources such as cotton and bannanas permitting that the terrain is right, because before it seemed ridiculous that in the modern age you couldn't choose to grow wheat, it had to have been already there. Also, instead of placing people in cities on squares you should just place them in a profession like before. There should be new professions such as farmer, factory worker, doctor, etc. Each profession has obvious bonuses and the limit of each is based on the terrain around the cities, for example how many farms, and on certain buildings. All of this is to make it so that a city of one million people actually has 100 times the productions of a city of 10 thousand, as in real life. The only way to make this actually work is to also have a professional work in other cities (for example if you want to make a hosipital in a small city you have workers from another city to come and make it) for an additional cost. An implication of this is that everthing must cost much more because some cities have like 100 population but you can spread out production with the professions.

7. Unit creation Whenevery you make a unit you actually make two, one is the equipment, for example making a tank for tank unit or guns for an infantry unit, and the other is the actual person. Factories and all work points only affect the production of the equipment, not actually the person. Buildings such as a military recruitment center affect the training fo the person. Whenever you make a person for the unit it takes one population point from the city no matter what (however with linear populations the lose is not very bad). Trained units obviously start with more experience point than do drafted units.

8. POW Whenever you capture an enemy because he runs out of ammo or something, he turns into a POW that you control. You also get the equipment that unit had but you have to supply the person for the unit yourself. You can move it to cities or such without any sort of military escort (in real life it doesn't take that much military police to escort so why bother) but if they get captured by their original country then they turn back into their original unit person with the same experience. Obviously you can have an escort but you don't necessarily need it. That means if you capture a city where POW's are at then they turn into a person unit like the ones that come from military recruitment centers as in number 7. Once you equip them with the right equipment they can fight again on your side. Also, you can choose to kill POW's but other countries get really angry at you. Lastly, as in real life, you can trade your POW's for other POW's or other things such as a lump sum of gold.

Well thats it, I know its long-that's what she said-but please give me your feedback, thank you

 

[RedRalph]

1. Advanced tile. I think the system right now for tiles is terrible: each tile is just to big for the map. On the other hand, making tiles smaller would make each map way too giant and annoying. So, I came up with a compromise. In the general view each tile is the same as it was in Civ 4. Howevery, you should be able to have a zoom tile button that breaks up the tile into a four by four square. Each mini tile would have a different terrain than the other (for example if the tile itself was hills then more than say half of the minitiles would have hills on them). Movement cost in a minitile is obviously one fourth of normal.

Hmmm.... this seems to me like you are just saying you would rather more tiles on a map, with cities covering 4 tiles. I'm not opposed to the idea.

2. Brigades and other unit modifications Limit the number of units to a tile to eight. Each unit is to be a division and is therefore broken up into four brigades when on any tile. Each brigade can occupy a different minitile in each tile with a limit of two per minitile. The strength of each brigade is the same. The reason for this this modification is 1. putting too many units on a single tile is lame because in real life you simply cant do that 2. Makes strategies such as flanking and encirclement not just some stupid upgrade (just wait and ill explain)



3. Logistical and supply lines When a unit is created you have to pick what city is his command center (must be one of the five largest cities and if you change command centers the unit cannot move for three turns). Before radio, each unit requires a line of command and if it is disrupted then you cannot control the unit, it does whatever it wants. After radio you dont have lines of command but if the city that has the command center is captured then the unit does whatever it want for three turns. Each unit has a meter of how much food, water, ammunition, and fuel it has. When a unit runs out of food then it looses health each turn, when out of water it automatically dies, and when out of fuel or ammunition it surrenders and turns into a POW (explain later). Obviously for units that travel on horse or by foot they dont need fuel. After each turn a unit uses a certain percentage of water and food, after each battle a certain percentage of ammo, and after each move a certain amount of fuel. As long as supply lines are intact then the unit automatically fills the next turn. But if supply lines are cut off then they use the supplies as explained earlier. Also, units who are out of food or water may pillage tiles refill. All supply lines must connect to one of the five largest cities. Supply lines are only roads and railroads, nothing else. Since each tile is comprised up of minitiles, making it so that roads do not fill the entire tile and that only two brigades can fit in one minitile this has a few very important and great impacts. The major implication, and my favorite, is that it makes blitzkrieg a viable option. For those who don't know, Blitzkrieg is not just about surprise warfare but also, among other things, encirclement. Once you encircle an enemy and cut off his supply lines with these modifications, that enemy is at a severe disadvantage. He must fight his way out of the encirclement or else he is completely screwed. This makes the game SO much better because military strategy is not just brute force, there is intricate strategy of how to defeat enemies.

I agree with supply lines (I think most people do) but I dont know if the food, water etc limits would be viable. Might make combat far too complicated. I would prefer a general weakening over turns cut off form supply lines. also I dont think units should act of their own accord if cut off, maybe they can only defend instead?

4. New modes of attack defense Combined with the minitile idea, new modes of attack could make the game so much better. The first thing is that any brigade that fortifies can only fortify itself in one direction. That is they get a defense bonus if the attack comes from that side. That makes flanking a real strategy to utilize. When you attack from the side you get say a 50 percent bonus. Better than that is that you can do a combined attack with one other brigade on another tile. That way you can flank from both sides and get a 75 percent bonus. Flanking is just one example and I will only explain a few more, but there are definitely many more modes of attack and defense. A defense action that automatically engages another unit in an adjacent minitile and one that fires artillery whenever another unit is within its range, hold at all costs defense and retreat if necessary defense etc... Also, at any time when you are in another countries land during war or when you are surrounded, you may capitulate that unit to turn into POW as explained later.

Personally as a micromanagement fan I'd be all for this, but it might make the game too complicated for most people. you are obviously a warmonger, as am I, but I think for a lot of people this would be putting too much focus on combat.

5. Resource modification To me it seems absurd that you can have one oil resource but supply a million tanks. I therefore propose that each resource work much like how money works in the game. Each city depending on its size uses a certain amount of a resource per turn and so do units and buildings. This way having multiple resources of the same thing actually means something. This would make the game way better in my opinion.

110% in favour of this. along with proper borders, I hope this change is in Civ5 more than any other. and I think it will be, most people here seem in favour and juding by some of the changes made in BtS the developers must pay some degree of attention to fan suggesitons.

6. Linear population and exponential growth In opinion, one population point of a city should equal a given non variable number of people, for example a city of 1 million has 100 population and a city of 100 thousand has 10. The number of people per population point should change as you change eras, which makes logical sense. Poplation growth should not be dependent on food but rather you set it yourself (I know it sounds totalitarian). The wat to make it so that people dont just set the percent to the highest is to have three age demographics, 0-17, 18-55, 55+. Only people in the middle demographic actually contrubite wealth and and work points to the city while the other two just cost money. So any person who decides to set the growth rate the highest will have too many people from the lower demographic and thefore suffer. To make this population modification work, you need a food modification. Food production should be cumiltive based on reaching a certain tech meaning that food from one part of the empire can supply a city somewhere else. Also, after a certain tech you should be able to plant certain resources such as cotton and bannanas permitting that the terrain is right, because before it seemed ridiculous that in the modern age you couldn't choose to grow wheat, it had to have been already there. Also, instead of placing people in cities on squares you should just place them in a profession like before. There should be new professions such as farmer, factory worker, doctor, etc. Each profession has obvious bonuses and the limit of each is based on the terrain around the cities, for example how many farms, and on certain buildings. All of this is to make it so that a city of one million people actually has 100 times the productions of a city of 10 thousand, as in real life. The only way to make this actually work is to also have a professional work in other cities (for example if you want to make a hosipital in a small city you have workers from another city to come and make it) for an additional cost. An implication of this is that everthing must cost much more because some cities have like 100 population but you can spread out production with the professions.

Yeah sounds good to me alright.

7. Unit creation Whenevery you make a unit you actually make two, one is the equipment, for example making a tank for tank unit or guns for an infantry unit, and the other is the actual person. Factories and all work points only affect the production of the equipment, not actually the person. Buildings such as a military recruitment center affect the training fo the person. Whenever you make a person for the unit it takes one population point from the city no matter what (however with linear populations the lose is not very bad). Trained units obviously start with more experience point than do drafted units.

I think this is a good idea but could be simplified by just having every unit take a certain amount of pop points from the city. would work with your idea of higher pop growth.

8. POW Whenever you capture an enemy because he runs out of ammo or something, he turns into a POW that you control. You also get the equipment that unit had but you have to supply the person for the unit yourself. You can move it to cities or such without any sort of military escort (in real life it doesn't take that much military police to escort so why bother) but if they get captured by their original country then they turn back into their original unit person with the same experience. Obviously you can have an escort but you don't necessarily need it. That means if you capture a city where POW's are at then they turn into a person unit like the ones that come from military recruitment centers as in number 7. Once you equip them with the right equipment they can fight again on your side. Also, you can choose to kill POW's but other countries get really angry at you. Lastly, as in real life, you can trade your POW's for other POW's or other things such as a lump sum of gold.

Hm, have to say I dont think this would add too much to the game. All in all some good ideas though

 

[Cyberviking]

I find the idea of a Custom, random game much more appealing.

If the random map function could make maps with variety similar to the earth map. When you look at the world map, you'll see achipelagos, continents and pangaeas, but in civ IV you have too choose between them. I wish we could get a function that made more realistic terrain. (I might be wrong if the terra maps are good, it's long time since i played random map last time)

 

[Scilly_guy]

I think its the largest terra map that I play on, it always has Old World:Asia, Oceania, Africa, Europe (last two to certain extents but sometimes they are basically gone) New world:north America, south America, Caribbean. Everyone starts in the old world, no one starts on the little group of islands, Mediterranean isn't ever really existant, there is a larger group of islands somewhere that you can't reach until galleons. I like it, I can sort of see how it is made, although I haven't looked at the script I can imagine it.

But an Earth map most certainly does not have Pangea(s) as that would imply everything was joined up, and so therefore cannot exist alongside continents, but now I am just nit picking.

I am curious about tectonic map generation, it is a concept I have thought about, I have tried some scripts that are about but I think the resolution of the grids and required development just isn't available yet, yet alone processing power, and when do you start? The earth cooling and releasing steam? Do you have different types of geology? Metamorphic, Igneous, Sedimentary? Slate, Marble, Pumice, Basalt, Granite, Limestone, Sandstone, Shale? Where do you stop? Weathering? Ice ages, glaciers, flooding, storms, rain forest, forest. I mean after all, lime stone weathers differently to granite, different plants grow on it, Limestone is formed where oceans used to be. I mean it is a complicated process, and that is just to get the map made.

I envisage a screen saver application like the @home projects, they run (taking a long time to complete) and create maps which people can upload and rank. You can then download "random" maps that people have voted as good/realistic. It would all mean that you could put resources in real places too, Coal fields would be where jungle used to be a long time ago, oil would be where oceans used to be, precious metals and gems would be where metamorphic rock is or in igneous intrusions, certain crops would grow on certain types of rock/soil. Mountain ranges would form along plate boundaries, with volcanoes at places we really find them.

Is that the best way to create realistic Earths? Its certainly not the easiest, but they might be higher "quality".

 

[rysmiel]

But an Earth map most certainly does not have Pangea(s) as that would imply everything was joined up, and so therefore cannot exist alongside continents, but now I am just nit picking.

Though you could, in theory, include Earth maps dating back in increments of, say, ten million years for the past half to three quarters of a billion years, which would include Pangaea maps of the original Pangaea.

 

[sangeli]

Response to what Ralph Wiggum said:

First about the four by four square: You said that I'm advocating an increase in map size where everything is four times as big. I've considered that but instead I think the minisquare is better, at least in terms of military. In real life divisions are not some static military unit that cannot separate so I propose 4 battalions that make up a single unit/division. However, each battalion must be in the same square as all the others but once you make minisquares you can actually have more elasticity. The whole reason I'm suggesting this is to make blitzkrieg a viable option. In a normal map now it is easy to make a road on nearly every unit square. On a giant map, which Ralph thinks i'm suggeting, there are just more cities and therefore it is just as easy to make roads on every square. But when you have a minisquare map you have the same amount of cities, hence the same production and number of workers but way more tiles. Thence, roads will not be built on every square and it therefore gives you a way to cut off supply and command lines. The other advantage of minisquares is that not during war (when precision doesn't really matter) you can move divisions/units from square to square just as easily as before. Therefore, there needs to be a button you push that puts you into minisquare mode when precision matters, as during war.

I understand what you said about the supply lines and the idea of having food, water, fuel, and ammunition meters being too complicated. The thing about those is that 99% of time you don't have to worry about units supplies because they're not cut off from their cities. But in the event that they are cut off I think there needs to be a myriad of responses. For example, an infantry division may be cut off completely from their cities, but if they are on say a farm tile and they don't fight (i.e. they didn't use ammo) weakining from turn to turn does not sound appropriate. You mentioned a general weakening from turn to turn, but that is unrealistic. Take in account the ammount of ammo you have. If a unit runs out of ammo, shouldn't it autmatically surrender? But if it runs of food that unit should be able to survive a few turns, but maybe lose some health. The oil, food, and ammunition also take a realistic toll on a nations resource stockpiles and therefore a small nation can't support a giant army as before.

For new modes of attack and defense, and any advanced concepts, there should be an option that you can pick at the start of the game to either use or don't use. That way noobies can play without their head exploding.

POW's are kind of unnecessary but I think they're fun.

 

[rhinoman]

The following suggestions are very difficult to realize but whatever. Additionally, each suggestion requires some others, for example suggestion 2 can't work without suggesion 1. Most of thses suggestions are for war mods such as the Road To War, but others are universal.

1. Advanced tile. I think the system right now for tiles is terrible: each tile is just to big for the map. On the other hand, making tiles smaller would make each map way too giant and annoying. So, I came up with a compromise. In the general view each tile is the same as it was in Civ 4. Howevery, you should be able to have a zoom tile button that breaks up the tile into a four by four square. Each mini tile would have a different terrain than the other (for example if the tile itself was hills then more than say half of the minitiles would have hills on them). Movement cost in a minitile is obviously one fourth of normal.

2. Brigades and other unit modifications Limit the number of units to a tile to eight. Each unit is to be a division and is therefore broken up into four brigades when on any tile. Each brigade can occupy a different minitile in each tile with a limit of two per minitile. The strength of each brigade is the same. The reason for this this modification is 1. putting too many units on a single tile is lame because in real life you simply cant do that 2. Makes strategies such as flanking and encirclement not just some stupid upgrade (just wait and ill explain).

3. Logistical and supply lines When a unit is created you have to pick what city is his command center (must be one of the five largest cities and if you change command centers the unit cannot move for three turns). Before radio, each unit requires a line of command and if it is disrupted then you cannot control the unit, it does whatever it wants. After radio you dont have lines of command but if the city that has the command center is captured then the unit does whatever it want for three turns. Each unit has a meter of how much food, water, ammunition, and fuel it has. When a unit runs out of food then it looses health each turn, when out of water it automatically dies, and when out of fuel or ammunition it surrenders and turns into a POW (explain later). Obviously for units that travel on horse or by foot they dont need fuel. After each turn a unit uses a certain percentage of water and food, after each battle a certain percentage of ammo, and after each move a certain amount of fuel. As long as supply lines are intact then the unit automatically fills the next turn. But if supply lines are cut off then they use the supplies as explained earlier. Also, units who are out of food or water may pillage tiles refill. All supply lines must connect to one of the five largest cities. Supply lines are only roads and railroads, nothing else. Since each tile is comprised up of minitiles, making it so that roads do not fill the entire tile and that only two brigades can fit in one minitile this has a few very important and great impacts. The major implication, and my favorite, is that it makes blitzkrieg a viable option. For those who don't know, Blitzkrieg is not just about surprise warfare but also, among other things, encirclement. Once you encircle an enemy and cut off his supply lines with these modifications, that enemy is at a severe disadvantage. He must fight his way out of the encirclement or else he is completely screwed. This makes the game SO much better because military strategy is not just brute force, there is intricate strategy of how to defeat enemies.

4. New modes of attack defense Combined with the minitile idea, new modes of attack could make the game so much better. The first thing is that any brigade that fortifies can only fortify itself in one direction. That is they get a defense bonus if the attack comes from that side. That makes flanking a real strategy to utilize. When you attack from the side you get say a 50 percent bonus. Better than that is that you can do a combined attack with one other brigade on another tile. That way you can flank from both sides and get a 75 percent bonus. Flanking is just one example and I will only explain a few more, but there are definitely many more modes of attack and defense. A defense action that automatically engages another unit in an adjacent minitile and one that fires artillery whenever another unit is within its range, hold at all costs defense and retreat if necessary defense etc... Also, at any time when you are in another countries land during war or when you are surrounded, you may capitulate that unit to turn into POW as explained later.

5. Resource modification To me it seems absurd that you can have one oil resource but supply a million tanks. I therefore propose that each resource work much like how money works in the game. Each city depending on its size uses a certain amount of a resource per turn and so do units and buildings. This way having multiple resources of the same thing actually means something. This would make the game way better in my opinion.

6. Linear population and exponential growth In opinion, one population point of a city should equal a given non variable number of people, for example a city of 1 million has 100 population and a city of 100 thousand has 10. The number of people per population point should change as you change eras, which makes logical sense. Poplation growth should not be dependent on food but rather you set it yourself (I know it sounds totalitarian). The wat to make it so that people dont just set the percent to the highest is to have three age demographics, 0-17, 18-55, 55+. Only people in the middle demographic actually contrubite wealth and and work points to the city while the other two just cost money. So any person who decides to set the growth rate the highest will have too many people from the lower demographic and thefore suffer. To make this population modification work, you need a food modification. Food production should be cumiltive based on reaching a certain tech meaning that food from one part of the empire can supply a city somewhere else. Also, after a certain tech you should be able to plant certain resources such as cotton and bannanas permitting that the terrain is right, because before it seemed ridiculous that in the modern age you couldn't choose to grow wheat, it had to have been already there. Also, instead of placing people in cities on squares you should just place them in a profession like before. There should be new professions such as farmer, factory worker, doctor, etc. Each profession has obvious bonuses and the limit of each is based on the terrain around the cities, for example how many farms, and on certain buildings. All of this is to make it so that a city of one million people actually has 100 times the productions of a city of 10 thousand, as in real life. The only way to make this actually work is to also have a professional work in other cities (for example if you want to make a hosipital in a small city you have workers from another city to come and make it) for an additional cost. An implication of this is that everthing must cost much more because some cities have like 100 population but you can spread out production with the professions.

7. Unit creation Whenevery you make a unit you actually make two, one is the equipment, for example making a tank for tank unit or guns for an infantry unit, and the other is the actual person. Factories and all work points only affect the production of the equipment, not actually the person. Buildings such as a military recruitment center affect the training fo the person. Whenever you make a person for the unit it takes one population point from the city no matter what (however with linear populations the lose is not very bad). Trained units obviously start with more experience point than do drafted units.

8. POW Whenever you capture an enemy because he runs out of ammo or something, he turns into a POW that you control. You also get the equipment that unit had but you have to supply the person for the unit yourself. You can move it to cities or such without any sort of military escort (in real life it doesn't take that much military police to escort so why bother) but if they get captured by their original country then they turn back into their original unit person with the same experience. Obviously you can have an escort but you don't necessarily need it. That means if you capture a city where POW's are at then they turn into a person unit like the ones that come from military recruitment centers as in number 7. Once you equip them with the right equipment they can fight again on your side. Also, you can choose to kill POW's but other countries get really angry at you. Lastly, as in real life, you can trade your POW's for other POW's or other things such as a lump sum of gold.

Well thats it, I know its long-that's what she said-but please give me your feedback, thank you

Sorry don't get how to multi quote but here it goes.
1. NO way to complicated
2. like one so still no
3. main component of this idea would have to be supply wagons to Cary it how about in stead of your odd main base city idea make it so that you make supply wagons in city's, fill em up with resources and send them off to fill up a military unit. for example lets say your axeman has space for five food units once it gets to 3 units which takes 2 turns per unit to go down a bit in health and at 0 food it dies. your average supply wagon can hold up to 10 food and for game play simplicity it doesnt require any food to operate. lets say your axeman's hungry, if it pillages a farm instead of the normal 7 gold your axeman gets 2 food. for water your axeman has two water holds and supply wagons can also hold water instead of food. instead of pillaging farms as long as your units by a lake or river your fine and go all the way up in water. For oil you pillage oil wells, ammo you have to make it at home or capture enemy wagons or sometimes POWS. your units will be going out of your control if they haven't received a supply wagon fresh from your city or you don't have radio for five turns. They are briefly out of control when this happens but you still see their square so you see where to send in a supply wagon. if you gave advance orders before you lost contact they will usualy follow them. Oh yeah supply wagons can be captured but cant lose contact and have a line of sight of 1 allowing for enemy ambushes and captures if you don't protect it with military. Great people don't require any resources as there is only one but explores require a bit of food water and for later explorers fuel.

4. I still don't agree with mini tiles but battle tactics could be improved. one thing is mass attacks have an advantage making players decide to risk it all, usualy giving an advantage the more units you put in the battle up to a certan point. There could be flanking strategy in these mass attacks like lets say you tell your 2 cavalry to attack 1 musket-man in a mass attack. Sure they both could attack head on and get a small advantage on but if they attack from exactly opposite sides (basically flanking) they will get an bigger advantage. Mass attack also applies to first strike abilitys, like one defending archer will only be able use their first strike ability against one unit in a mass attack making 2 warriors against a archer in a mass attack, more effective than two individually attacking an archer. Finally for sea invasions mass attacks are way more successful then one unit attacking individually. Mass attack advantages also aply to the defender if they are defending in mass.
There could be flanking strategy in these mass attacks like lets say you tell your 2 cavalry to attack 1 musket-man in a mass attack. Sure they both could attack head on and get a small advantage on but if they attack from exactly opposite sides (basically flanking) they will get an bigger advantage. (note: no more "flanking give withdraw" bonus for cavalry units all units can flank but cavalry natuarly better as they can move to opposite sides and attack flank wise easier due to 2 movement)
Another thing is retreat. Why can just cavalry units retreat from combat. It makes no sense! I like the idea of a retreat button like in the upcoming civ revolution but as non horse units retreat all remaining archers get another first chance and experience is rewarded to the defending player. As PC civ is more turn based it doesnt have to have an animation but instead has attack phases where after each the attacker can decide whether to withdraw specific units from the fight after each phase. In sea invasions its very difficult to withdraw troops from battle as you get a large penalty.
I think morale would be important as starving, dehydrated, or low ammo troops would me mush more likely to surrender into a POW. This would be along with outside influences like if the war is going badly or the religion of the civ you are fighting is the same as the religion of the city the unit came from

5. Yes, Yes, Yes, not only should there be finite resources for minerals but also a rate at which they can be extracted depending on if you built a small, medium or large mine. Also city's should naturally take up a small amount of resources for their own populations use along with some for building stuff like weapons or wonders.

6. Linear populations a no brainier of coarse yes. not sure about the growth rate as this is a linear game with one turn in 3000bc not being the same as population in 2000ad.

7. I personally like the idea of recruiting stations and drafting stations.
recruiting stations have the people get the choice to join the armed forces and whether they will join or not depends on the city's war weariness, average morale rating of soldier in the field, and amount of gold per turn you offer to pay them each turn. OF course if you don't want them they wont join. Soldiers who do join with recruiting stations start at 100 percent morale but get no other benefit compared to normal soldiers as a soldiers a soldier. Drafted units join as many per turn as you want but automatically start at 75 percent of the average morale of the soldiers you have along with your city's to the war. All units drafted are "base units" with the strength of a warrior it's when you give them a weapon and a couple of turns of training in a military academy, barracks, or a fort that they become a normal soldier which type depends on the weapon and training you give them. All basic units take away 1 population but only drafted units cause unhappiness in city's. I like the idea of weapons being built in workshops or factories maybe even factory can spend time specializing to a type of unit or civilian use giving them an advantage in that area.

8. POWS have almost the exact same stats as supply wagons as they can see only their own tile and move one tile at a time unless on road or railroad. they don't do much but you cant kill them with out destroying your relationships with all other countries. I like the idea of pow trading as it gives a point to pows. If a POW is recaptured it turns back to a base unit with very little morale and no weapon as the enemy stole them.

Note: in future civ all units, specilasts and citicens should have a option to pay them more to make up for unhapyness. and distribute food more evenly for needs of diferent units

Thanks sangeli;6741149 I don't agree with your Minne tile idea at all but all your other ideas can probably be very fun or improve the game with some modifications.

 

[borjeolan]

Ok here gos I know im quait unrealistic but anyway

A map that can support 200 civs. (like Earth)
3D + 2D (fore the big games)Se above
1 turn is one month. all game.
A tec tree that has 1000 tecs. (like Hearts of Iron)
A slider fore adjusting level of micromanagement.
Wat u teath your kids. pics.(determining how thei behave as addalts.
2 difficulty sliders: 1 fore enemies 1 fore internal difficulty.
adjustable civics like in (Europa Unuversalis2) LOTS OF OPTIONS
War dissent & stability like --- I I ---
Scouts & explorers get Ep.from exploring (maby 0.2pionts/sqear)
Secret societys.That try to infiltrate & control. (Knights tempar, illuminati, Freemasons.)
Other no-gowerment controled entetis (Corporations, religions, grean peace,)
They bribe and do Lobbying.
Ability to lend money. <=>
Private banks. that can get rely rich (like the RothShildes and Federal revers.)
Missioneres that convert Barbarians + spread your culture -> Joining.
Negative effects of tech & civics, that u nottis later.
Cultural treats that get formed by your actions.
Play a lifetime. (ex. Hitler ore Elisabeth) and get personal score.
Scoring based on hove happy & Free your people are
Playtime till the World is a Paradise.(Everybody is happy)
Social & Structural networks (to be built in city's & Nation wide.)
Realistic Oracle. U can offer money to get tips & benefits.
Letting the game become more complex as time passes.
Lots of events. & happenings like in Hearts of Iron that lets u chose hove u react. (and penalties if u act not according to your civics.)

Please help me see the error in my ways.

 

[Shekwan]

Why does everyone want a really complicated game? 1000 techs? Advanced tile system?POWs? Do people actually play video games to have fun and get away from work/relax anymore?

 

[Scilly_guy]

Ok here gos I know im quait unrealistic but anyway

A map that can support 200 civs. (like Earth)
3D + 2D (fore the big games)Se above
1 turn is one month. all game.
A tec tree that has 1000 tecs. (like Hearts of Iron)
A slider fore adjusting level of micromanagement.
Wat u teath your kids. pics.(determining how thei behave as addalts.
2 difficulty sliders: 1 fore enemies 1 fore internal difficulty.
adjustable civics like in (Europa Unuversalis2) LOTS OF OPTIONS
War dissent & stability like --- I I ---
Scouts & explorers get Ep.from exploring (maby 0.2pionts/sqear)
Secret societys.That try to infiltrate & control. (Knights tempar, illuminati, Freemasons.)
Other no-gowerment controled entetis (Corporations, religions, grean peace,)
They bribe and do Lobbying.
Ability to lend money. <=>
Private banks. that can get rely rich (like the RothShildes and Federal revers.)
Missioneres that convert Barbarians + spread your culture -> Joining.
Negative effects of tech & civics, that u nottis later.
Cultural treats that get formed by your actions.
Play a lifetime. (ex. Hitler ore Elisabeth) and get personal score.
Scoring based on hove happy & Free your people are
Playtime till the World is a Paradise.(Everybody is happy)
Social & Structural networks (to be built in city's & Nation wide.)
Realistic Oracle. U can offer money to get tips & benefits.
Letting the game become more complex as time passes.
Lots of events. & happenings like in Hearts of Iron that lets u chose hove u react. (and penalties if u act not according to your civics.)

Please help me see the error in my ways.

Just no! By all means big maps, but if you had 200 civs on today's computers it would be unplayably slow. I mean at the minute the end game is already so slow for most with a few civs let alone 200.

1 turn is one month???/approximately 30 revolutions about the earths axis, after all a month is something purely from our reality. Ok so a current game now lasts 1500 turns or less (on epic), sometimes more, with a turn a month it would be 72600 turns, don't get me wrong, I am all for the slower game but that is ridiculously long. I like the way time slows as the game progresses now, it works, it stops you being stuck in ancient times for AGES (notice the pun) and then the modern age to be a little bit at the end of the game.

Please please please either learn to spell or use Firefox with a spell checker installed.

 

[RedRalph]

Leave it our Scilly guy, I bet his english is better than your Finnish