Let's Play a Prince Game!

[mtr12]

I was bored, so I decided to submit this game to the forums so you guys could help me work on optimizing my game. I can win most games at a Prince level, but 1) That doesn't mean anything, and 2) I still have a lot of flaws in my Civ-related thought processes.

So, without further ado, let's go to the game. Settings are Random Leader, Fractal, Standard.

I had to reroll the first start since I got Pigs, Gold, and FP.

I like Isabella because she looks cute, but her merits as a leader don't really extend beyond that. I guess Spiritual is a great trait, and Expansive is ok, but her UU and UB are mediocre at best. Well, maybe I can find Stone to leverage her UB, getting Castles everywhere, skipping Economics and going for State Property, and winning a lategame war with super-promoted Artillery.

So anyways, the start looks pretty food-poor, but production-rich. There may be some food in the tiles west of us, but checking them will waste too many turns. Therefore, I was thinking of being safe and setting 1S. If there is no food there, we still get 2 Cows and a FP. If there is, then we're lucky. Or I can gamble and SIP for more production, but if I don't get a food resource to the west, I could be boned.

In the short run this city can probably work as a Settler/Worker pump. In the long run, I might make this my HE City or whatever.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Isabella's UU is good. Do not underestimate curraissers.

The curraiser rush is one of the easiest ways to win the game. The primary counter to curraissers are pikes, and Isabella's UU has a special trait against them.

I'd consider settling on the marble hill. It means more production, which means faster workers and settlers. You can have your second city take the floodplains and the cow in the south.

The capital's just a city that gets +8 commerce, and a free cultural expansion. It's really not that important. If worst comes to worst, you can always move the capital.

 

[michmbk]

I agree on her UU - it's not an elite UU like a quechua, praet or keshik, but cuirassiers are a great way to start a mounted war swarm that turns into overrunning everyone with cavalry. The only issue with them is they tend to be short-lived for me, as in games I go for cuirassiers, next stop is rifling to turn them into the ever-devastating cavalry.

If you want to take a bit of a chance, you could settle on the marble hill - IIRC, that's a 3 hammer tile, which allows for a nice starting boost. Otherwise, looks like SIP for a production capital, which can still be very strong under bureau (for the extra hammers).

 

[Nydaeli]

Give Izzy a little more credit. Expansive is an excellent trait, thanks to the increased worker/granary production, and Conquistadors are a lot of fun.

I agree that settling 1S is your best bet. With Marble in the capital's BFC I'd definitely plan to build the Oracle. It's probably too early to plan your Oracle tech target, but Code of Laws is usually good.

 

[GGracchus]

I agree with 1S, you don't need two marble in the BFC but a grassland cow would be nice. Conquistadors are good, citadel is meh.

 

[mtr12]

Part 1: 4000-2760 BC

So I decide to SIP to be safe, it seems that I can get a pretty monstrous amount of Production here.

I decide to gamble on an early Polytheism, since this is Prince and I have a Lake. Besides, I'll be getting Masonry anyways for the Marble, and picking up Monotheism later on might also be worth it. If I can get a lot of religions and find some Cottageable land, a Culture victory should be easy.

Buildpath: Warrior --> Worker --> Settler
Techpath: Polytheism --> Agriculture --> Animal Husbandry --> Mining --> Masonry? Need some help here.

Well, Shaka is a gigantic douche that's not really a good trading partner, so he'll have to die. It's a pity, I was hoping for someone more agreeable.

Yay I'm Hindu.

Optimizing the Expansive trait's Worker production bonus.

I couldn't resist. Besides, I want to kill this guy soon anyways.

Discovered AH, time to look for Horsies. But the problem is that I don't think Horse will be much use against Shaka, since I'll get boned if he has Copper/Iron, as Impi's hardcounter Chariots.

I guess a Chariot war may be more expensive than its worth against Shaka. Maybe I should just turtle until Ironworking.

State of the world in 2760 BC.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Don't go Polytheism first at higher difficulty levels.

I guess if you're getting polytheism, starting with a warrior (even though you're expansive) is the right choice.

Once again, don't go Polytheism first at higher difficulty levels.

In other words, don't go Polytheism first at higher difficulty levels. This means that you should not go Polytheism first at higher difficulty levels. Which means that getting Polytheism first at higher difficulty levels is a bad idea.

Works fine at Noble or Prince though.

But not at higher difficulty levels.

 

[CreeDakota]

Shaka may be in a good postion to Choke. He is allready one worker down. A woody two warrior followed by a couple archers or anything else really and you can likely trap him down on that penisula for 2000 years.

With a religion and marble in the BFC the oracle is likley a good bet. You want the priest points anyway.

 

[mtr12]

Yeah, I wouldn't go for it unless I was sure that I could get it. I figured that having a +2 Commerce tile could ensure that I got it.

 

[MarigoldRan]

It doesn't matter if you get it or not. Going for Polytheism first at a higher difficulty level is a bad idea regardless of whether it's gotten first or not.

 

[GGracchus]

Religion is not as important of a factor on higher difficulties. Yes, shrine+Sankore+Minaret is good, but early game you could have used those beakers for worker techs. This can easily get you attacked by your next-door neighbor who founded Buddhism on higher difficulty. If shaka gets a different religion than you, he'll be annoyed, and we all know what happens then. It's best not to adopt religion unless it's diplomatically possible, and grabbing the religion can backfire this way and losing vital time on worker techs.

 

[mtr12]

Religion is not as important of a factor on higher difficulties. Yes, shrine+Sankore+Minaret is good, but early game you could have used those beakers for worker techs. This can easily get you attacked by your next-door neighbor who founded Buddhism on higher difficulty. If shaka gets a different religion than you, he'll be annoyed, and we all know what happens then. It's best not to adopt religion unless it's diplomatically possible, and grabbing the religion can backfire this way and losing vital time on worker techs.

To be honest, it's probably a bit late to worry about what Shaka thinks, given that I just stole his Worker.

But I see your point, I admit that I'm in a bit of a tech hole at the moment, and I'll probably have workers sitting around doing nothing for some turns.

 

[mtr12]

Well, for some reason the global techrate and wonderbuild rate is really slow this game. I got Stonehenge in 1900 BC, while Monotheism hasn't been discovered even by 1560 BC. Oracle hasn't gone yet either.

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get Iron somewhere, so I'll build Swords and murder Shaka at my leisure, then expand into the jungle while turtling until Curr/Cannon. Then I'll murder people on my continent, then murder the dudes on the other continent, and win.

I'll have the pics up in a bit. I guess you guys were right that going Poly first hurt quite a bit in the short run. We'll have to see if it will pay off.

 

[GGracchus]

Well, for some reason the global techrate and wonderbuild rate is really slow this game. I got Stonehenge in 1900 BC, while Monotheism hasn't been discovered even by 1560 BC. Oracle hasn't gone yet either.

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get Iron somewhere, so I'll build Swords and murder Shaka at my leisure, then expand into the jungle while turtling until Curr/Cannon. Then I'll murder people on my continent, then murder the dudes on the other continent, and win.

It's prince, try going for it on emperor with all the opposing civs having mysticism and you have no stone/industrious. Good luck.

Cuirassiers and cannons are generally a bad idea. Cuirassiers/Cavalry are best used by themselves, and cannons are best used with riflemen, because the point of a cavalry attack is to take advantage of the two movement points. This is most effective if the AI doesn't have rifles.

 

[michmbk]

I messed around religious-style - true Izzy form in this game. Obviously suboptimal play, but it works fine on prince.

Spoiler :

Wanted to see if I could completely avoid war from the nutcases nearby. Automated workers relatively early on for simplicity, and just settled 9 cities, founded three religions, shrined them all and spread them all. Shaka went WHEOOHRN in the late BCs - of course I was the target...but he didn't declare until he was friendly finally right here:

So it took him about 150 turns to declare. He declared with a bunch of trebs and maces against....rifles. Obviously didn't work out well for him.

Check out the economy though - running 100% culture and still making money - not bad...by the time I coasted to my culture victory, I had even gotten the nuts on the other landmass to all convert to buddhism, so all civs were in buddhism (I had to force monte via spies, which was kind of fun.

I built a few religious buildings and missionaries:

 

[mtr12]

It's prince, try going for it on emperor with all the opposing civs having mysticism and you have no stone/industrious. Good luck.

Yeah I know. But on Prince I'm pretty much at the Infantry vs. Longbow point, so I just wanted to play this out before moving up to Monarch, where I used to be.

Unfortunately, this might be a bit tricky because of a bad start and horrible enemy leaders. (Food-poor start, Alexander AND Shaka on my continent?)

 

[mtr12]

Here's the promised pics.

Declaring peace with Shaka. Btw during the war I made sure to ravage his farms and mines to slow him down. He attacked me with an Archer and lost.

State of the world 2440. Since I don't really know what to do, and I have another settler going for city #2, I decide to attempt Stonehenge. If it fails, at least I'll get failure gold to fund a possible REX later.

Meet with Alexander. Sigh, 2 warmongers on my continent. Combined with the start, this won't be a very fun game.

Stonehenge is zipping along thanks to a strong production base. Unfortunately, my tech situation is terrible. This is definitely the last time I go for an early religion, it really cost me.

Settled another city to get Rice/Cow/Horse/Coast in the BFC. Pretty good for production, IMO, but I think most of my cities are Commerce-poor. Gonna need to get IW somehow and take out Shaka, then get some money from Calender and stuff in the jungle.

Yeah yeah, late Bronzeworking, I know.

Just chillin', waiting for a border pop so I can improve things. Don't worry, I don't plan to go for Mono, that's just a placeholder.

And ToA is also a placeholder.



Future Considerations:

1) I haven't put any points into Mono. Should I get it for fun?

2) A Chariot Rush would be very dicey and expensive given that I'm pretty much past the time to be doing an early rush. Also it would mean losing Oracle.

3) I have a third settler out already looking to settle a Fish site to the east to help block out Shaka. When should I build my next city?

4) What should I do about IW? I'm pretty sure that if I had Swords I could rape Shaka, and it would be way less expensive than a Chariot war.

5) How should I go about getting Alphabet? Should I get it after IW, and use it to help me extort backfill techs from Shaka after beating him in a war?

6) When should I think about getting Calender to improve all the resources I plan to "liberate" from Shaka?




Sorry I didn't give you guys a "state of the world". I attached a savegame though.

 

[MarigoldRan]

1. Why are you getting walls in your cities?
2. Why did you get Stonehenge with three cities?
3. Given that you started with marble, and you took polytheism as your first tech, did you get Priesthood and build the Oracle?
4. Why did you make peace with Shaka? Continue choking him. Never let him recover.
5. Why did you get archery instead of something more important like pottery or writing?
6. Get Alphabet ASAP. Go writing -> Oracle -> Alphabet. Forget about IW. It's a dead-end, useless tech unless you're the Romans. The only time to get IW is through trades.

 

[obsolete]

I was bored, so I decided to submit this game to the forums so you guys could help me work on optimizing my game.

You could probably start by not relying on lucky-huts.

 

[mtr12]

Btw I didn't get Archery, that was an old screenshot from another game lol.


Tbh I already played this thru into the Renn, and it's one of those games. Basically the global tech rate moves at a glacial pace, and since my land is so crappy and not conducive to commerce, I'm forced to permawar against Alex to get better land.

I'm about to rape Alexander in a second war, but Zara Yaqob is teching pretty fast, and my grossly outdated troops (Swords and Cats in 1300...) need to be upgraded before fighting him. I plan to hit Lib/Nat, and trade for backfill techs.

By the way, IW ended up being a somewhat handy tech, since I didn't have any Copper around and Shaka attacked with Impis. But yeah, I see your point about trading for IW. Only here I didn't see anyone to do it with.