Let's play a Succesion Game!

[I. Larkin]

0 330*BC
See Babylon’s Galley. They definitely will unload settler.
Move immortals and workers to block coast. Bring GL to Gordium. MMn something.
Revolt. Got 4 turns Anarchy. Good!
IBT
Zulu’s Galley sails. Babs have more Galleys. They unload settler near Incenses.
1 310*BC
Build Colony and pillage Incenses near Settler. Make MA vs Zulu for Horse, Incenses. They pay back WM and 31 gold. Try to get contact but have not enough gpt at Anarchy.
IBT
Babs sank Zulu Galley. Move stack to zulu’s Capital. FP in Gordium.
2 290*BC
Move forward…
IBT
Babs stack moves. GW in Babylon.
3 270*BC
Took zulu’s Capital. We won, alliance over. Decided not to make any deal to have reputation clean. Regrouped to war with Babs.
IBT
Bab’s stack moves back.
4 250*BC
We are at Republic and make 100 gpt approx. Move Vet spear at Mounting near Nineveh. MMn for shortrush.
IBT
Babs 1 spear and 1 bow have moved to our Land.
5 230*BC
Trade WM with Babs for 13 gold. Asked: “Remove or declare”. They declare.
Killed spear and bowman, moved 5 Immortals to Nineveh and Tlateloco .
IBT
Babs Counter-attack Nineveh’s stack. Spear wounded, 1 immortal killed.
6 210*BC
First siege of Nineveh. All won, 2 redlined, 2 remain full health (4/4).
Capture Tlateloco. Fight south of Gordium. Some reinforcements to Nineveh.
IBT
Babs stack moves to Tlateloco. Swords come to Nineveh.
7 190*BC
Capture Nineveh. It have nothing but 9 resistors and HG. Killed some swords around. Moved to Nippur.
IBT
Swords attack Nineveh. Lot of swords come closer to Nineveh. Bab’s Stack goes back to Nippur.
8 170*BC
Killed swords near Nineveh without loses. But…
IBT
Babylons killed all Immortals near Nineveh. WW appears. Some Cities riot.
9 150*BC
This looks as 50-50% war. We definitely will loose it vs Babs. Also Nineveh will flip back. Fight again. Got GL. Rush PALACE in Nineveh. Now it will not flip. Move stack to Nippur.
IBT
The same Immortal loses. Palace in Nineveh.
10 130*BC
Capture Nippur. Kill more swords.

 

[I. Larkin]

Having a look at the save.
1)I'd vote for peace now, getting contacts as part of the deal, then prepare for a re-DOW in 20 turns time and make another small push.

2) As for the palace, good move I say, we get better returns on the FP with the new location.

3) The contacts (thus techs thru the GLB) plus the HG are a good prize for this first war. We focus on mil build up and strike again 20 turns time would be my vote.

Re:3) We may take Sushpurak + cash for peace, I think it is more important than contacts.
Re:1) I vote for shorter peace, I think we will not need reputation. If we not going for Diplo win, I'd like to make RoP rape as well. I'm affraid that after 20 turns Babs will have Pickmen and war will be mor difficult. Also we *must* make a strike at Capital and Pillage Iron ASAP.
Re:2) I also think, that keep NINEVEH as central location is very important.
Unfortunately now FP and Palace too close. But we may Jump PALACE again when will have another GL.

 

[Moxxa]

Wow, and this whole time I've been using the FP to prevent flips. I must have just been getting lucky!

Yes, next time we go to war with the babs we must have a better plan, although we didn't do so bad. One idea should be to capture the GLH city later in the war so we don't have to raze it or worry about flips. That THIRD GL really came at a convinient time.

I also agree with our rep not being so important right now. I'm all for the "RoP rape" plan. Put as many spearmen on that iron hill as we can afford. Hopefully at least 4.

Is there a save?

 

[I. Larkin]

Is there a save?
At post 119

 

[Moxxa]

Hmmm...I don't have much experience with overseas warfare, but England and the Iroquois look pretty hard to crack. They both have iron and horses and walls in most of their towns. Once we own our island we will be huge though. Huge enough to outresearch them to Military Tradition and take them out with cavalry. SS win would be pretty easy too. Just an idea.

 

[tupaclives]

Reputation-schmeputation, we've already lost it but I am 150% against RoP rape or phony peace. These are exploits and I think we are good enough to win without lowering ourselves and our standards.

I am very firmly against either of those moves, Shurupak + Cash for peace is fine with me though, whatever we do though I expect us to honour the 20 turns of peace and to not indulge in RoP rape.

 

[Moxxa]

They aren't exploits. In no way are you taking advantage of a programming error or glitch or anything like that. It's how the game was designed. Its almost like saying that not automating your workers is an exploit because the AI has such poor worker management or building 95% corrupt cities in ICS formation then irrigating all the land to make science farms is an exploit.

If in your games you don't want to use these strategies, that's fine. I think that they are perfectly fine to use and will encourage them if they are the best route to victory.

I guess I just don't understand how breaking a peace treaty or RoP agreement could be considered exploits.

 

[tupaclives]

Because Phony peace and Rop Rape are listed as exploits under the RBC rules and they are the ones I always use, either in SG's or in solo games.

 

[nerovats]

Got it. Here is my plan.

Think we need peace now, prefer to get the contacts in stead of useless city. Then first get 3-4 settlers out to claim the land then back to immortals. Agree we don't want to wait to long before attack. Get some spears on then iron on same turn of declare. Go after big cities first, the're are just 5 of them. Should declare in 9 after capitol expands, easier to use horses on defence with few losses.

Play later today or tomorrow if plan agreed.

 

[nerovats]

Because Phony peace and Rop Rape are listed as exploits under the RBC rules and they are the ones I always use, either in SG's or in solo games.

For GOTM/HoF both are alowed, most players use those rules. But I agree on RoP rape, peace making every turn to demand tech every turn is also considered a cheet in my book, but I don't think we have to wait 20.

 

[I. Larkin]

At peace we may make contact ourself. But Shushpurak is important City, it control (Observe) galley's passes. It also will take some time to take it.

tupaclives: Reputation-schmeputation, we've already lost it but I am 150% against RoP rape

We did not lost our reputation yet! However,
I do not understand, how we may pillage Babs Iron withot RoP rape. As we are going to brake our trade reputation, RoP reputation is not a big deal.
Long term plan
I think we may not research at all or may be Chivalry only after we will get Feo from GLB. With GLH our war vs Iro and England safe. We may unload on Iron and pillage it straight.

 

[tupaclives]

How are we going to pillage the iron without RoP Rape? Be more creative... buy a galley now, get two spears, sit just outside the Bab border, as soon as the new war starts land ontop of the iron and then next turn disconnect it. That way no RoP rape.
Also looking at the save why do we want Shurupak for peace? Its a useless nothing city. Also why do we have an incense colony? We need all the workers we can get, we already have several incense sources (we only need 1...) so why waste workers on colonies?

 

[tupaclives]

I'm going to be away from today until the 10th of January so please skip me in any rounds I come up in. I may be able to check the forums and take part in discussion but I won't actually be able to play until the 10th Jan.

 

[I. Larkin]

1)How are we going to pillage the iron without RoP Rape? Be more creative... buy a galley now, get two spears, sit just outside the Bab border, as soon as the new war starts land ontop of the iron and then next turn disconnect it. That way no RoP rape.
2) Also looking at the save why do we want Shurupak for peace? Its a useless nothing city.
3) Also why do we have an incense colony? We need all the workers we can get, we already have several incense sources so why waste workers on colonies?

1) Culter Border of Babs cover Coast Tiles. We may not stay with Spears on Galley without RoP. Also, if we land just 2 spears Babs will kill it at once.
2) It will shorter way of Babs Galleys to our back. Also, it is unpleasant to have City behind our back when carry out war. Sending Immortals there and back to front is time consuming.
3) It was the same reason of fast motion. Unlike "normal" game we have exessive amount of workers. Colony permits to build road in 1 turn.

 

[nerovats]

Will play tomorrow

 

[nerovats]

Pre-turn
Make peace for Surapak, 35 gold, 11 gpt, WM (will get techs from GLib later, maybe better not meet both contacts now, kill 1 then meet next to optimize GLib effect).
Change Arbela, Teotihuacan, Hlobane to settlers
Nineveh, Bactra to barracks
Change several citizens
Now making 124 gpt, buy 2 settlers
110BC
Teotihuacan settler->cat
Arbela, Hlobane settler->settler
Sell incense for 27 gold, 2 gpt and WM
lower lux, create new scientist
90BC
Gordium immortal-> baracks (overloked that)
70BC
Bactra rax->immortal
Found Sidon, Tyre -> cat
use workers to block coastline
buy another settler
50BC
Arbela Settler->settler
Nineveh rax->immortal
30BC
nothing
IBT
Babs lands settler pair
10BC
Settle Sardis and Samaria, both cat, no more room for Babs to settle, accept for jungle, but we can overtake her.
10AD
use workers to give babs a detour to jungle.
When the mountain south of Bactra is mined it will give 15 spt.
Stop here to decide what to do attack now, or wait long.
We got lot of gold to buy galleys or units (1010 gold and making 155 gpt).
Our army is average again, we have 25 immortals, 7 horses, 4 cats, just 1 galley.
We should settle 2 more cities in jungle 1 can be on river.

I say use all gold now, and attack asap. Taking Babylon, Akkad and Ellipi will be enough to cripple babs so much that she won't be a treath anymore.



View attachment Moxxa_10_AD.SAV

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: That's a lot of cows near Ellipi!

BTW, why switch the palace do Nineveh? No flip risk?

 

[JJJSpider]

OK I got it.
I play in the next day or two.

Do we really want to trash our trading rep. by declaring on Babs?
I will try and get them with a Move or declare with the settling pair. But How long do you keep trying that before open war.

As for the Iron near ashur even if you have the troops and boats in the right positions now it would be five turns to the pillage their Iron by Boat (avoiding ROP) Five Turns by Land right now. But in two Turns with palace expansion maybe closer.

I feel when I do get to a War I going to be razing cities (except Ashur). Or if they have a miltary usefulness.

Any other ideas or suggestions.

 

[nerovats]

Yes raze cities, can keep them the first turn though to move units trough faster, then abandon them the next turn. Flip risks will be huge.

 

[I. Larkin]

1) Do we really want to trash our trading rep. by declaring on Babs?
2)I will try and get them with a Move or declare with the settling pair. But How long do you keep trying that before open war.

3) As for the Iron near ashur even if you have the troops and boats in the right positions now it would be five turns to the pillage their Iron by Boat (avoiding ROP) Five Turns by Land right now. But in two Turns with palace expansion maybe closer.

4) I feel when I do get to a War I going to be razing cities (except Ashur). Or if they have a miltary usefulness.

Any other ideas or suggestions.

1) Well with gpt peace will continued 40 turns. So no way but break.
2) Yes, and block position where they may settle.
3) It may be possible to pillage it fast with combat settler, after ABANDING Babylon at second turn of war.
4) Probably other Cities (not Babylon) not that flippy...