Let's talk about Kongo, Let's talk about Songhai

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah, the concept behind the unit was well-thought out but Firaxis did kick the ball out with the name... let's hope they see this thread and patch it to something more fitting before the release!

One possibility that could justify it...if the units are representing mercenaries hired from distant lands.

 

[stealth_nsk]

One possibility that could justify it...if the units are representing mercenaries hired from distant lands.

But if I understand correctly, historically those shieldbearers were local nobility.

 

[Thormodr]

The valid reason for her leading Ndongo is that she actually led it. The valid reason for her leading Kongo doesn't exist, because she never led the Kongo. It's that simple.

Nzinga was at one point allied with the Kongo, but that doesn't mean she ruled it. Just as Queen Seondeok leading Korea allied with the Tang dynasty of China doesn't mean she ruled the Tang dynasty of China.

Queen Seondeok led Silla, not Korea.

 

[raen]

I have Afonso´s Father in my mod

Of course my mod has Portuguese vision, with slavery and expansion at main theme.

 

[VermelhoRed]

Queen Seondeok led Silla, not Korea.

Silla was one of the many kingdoms that formed the cultural area called Korea, who would later be unified in one state (now sadly divided)

The kingdom of Ndongo (also known as kingdom of Angola) was subject to the kingdom of Kongo for some time but they were not composed of the same peoples, or culture. Kongo was based on the KiKongo peoples, while Ndongo was based on Mbundu peoples, who spoke a completely different, while related, language.

To have Ana Nzinga as ruler of Kongo would be the same as to have Vittorio Emmanuele as a ruler of France.

As people have said earlier in this thread, if you want her as a leader, you have to ask for Angola as a civ, not Kongo.

 

[ifasola]

Every civilization has some level of historical truth to civ but the Kongo.Saying Africans never had religion which is one of the most basic elements of all early civilization is a slap in the face very racist and the reason I wont by any civilization game. I been play civ since civ II and now I won’t be able to play it because they have taken African religion out of the game Ifa is the 5th largest religion in the world and VooDoo is African religion in the Americas. Are you telling me America & England who convert to Christianity can build holy sites but Black Africans cannot. This civ just show me how much people really don't know about Africa and don't care to know and don't care how disrespectful they are to Africans & African Americas alike. I hope they wake up and fix this problem it already bad enough we only get one truly Black African Civ out of 22, due to the fact they always make Egypt who is a known Black African Civ mix or Caucasian.
I would like to enjoy the new religious upgrades but is taking back by Kongo not being able to make holy sites. I’m asking would there be any other Black African Civs by launch and would we ever get an Egyptian leader that greater reflect the true demographic of the leaders and people of its history namely Black Africans? It seem as if Kongo can’t produce their own religion and if so is greatly handicap if they do so which to me is a great flaw in their Civ and without any other Black African Civs I would refrain from buying the game . I hope they correct this soon because I’ve been playing Civ for over 20 years and would hate to miss out on the next one due to a lack of depth and diversity towards Black African civilizations.
I had to come down because I was so excited to get Kongo as an official Civ but when they choose a weak leader for them I really became offended because I am an African American who practice indigenous African religion and when I talk to Africans who do so they really feel that they are misrepresented if they are shown at all. I hope people could understand how this is a sensitive subject.
I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.

Moderator Action: Please do not post the exact same thing in two different threads.

 

[MACKA0ili]

Every civilization has some level of historical truth to civ but the Kongo.Saying Africans never had religion which is one of the most basic elements of all early civilization is a slap in the face very racist and the reason I wont by any civilization game. I been play civ since civ II and now I won’t be able to play it because they have taken African religion out of the game Ifa is the 5th largest religion in the world and VooDoo is African religion in the Americas. Are you telling me America & England who convert to Christianity can build holy sites but Black Africans cannot. This civ just show me how much people really don't know about Africa and don't care to know and don't care how disrespectful they are to Africans & African Americas alike. I hope they wake up and fix this problem it already bad enough we only get one truly Black African Civ out of 22, due to the fact they always make Egypt who is a known Black African Civ mix or Caucasian.
I would like to enjoy the new religious upgrades but is taking back by Kongo not being able to make holy sites. I’m asking would there be any other Black African Civs by launch and would we ever get an Egyptian leader that greater reflect the true demographic of the leaders and people of its history namely Black Africans? It seem as if Kongo can’t produce their own religion and if so is greatly handicap if they do so which to me is a great flaw in their Civ and without any other Black African Civs I would refrain from buying the game . I hope they correct this soon because I’ve been playing Civ for over 20 years and would hate to miss out on the next one due to a lack of depth and diversity towards Black African civilizations.
I had to come down because I was so excited to get Kongo as an official Civ but when they choose a weak leader for them I really became offended because I am an African American who practice indigenous African religion and when I talk to Africans who do so they really feel that they are misrepresented if they are shown at all. I hope people could understand how this is a sensitive subject.
I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.

I am sorry to hear that, Civ to me has always been a game that taught me a lot about other cultures. But, that can be marred by absences, inconsistencies, and inaccuracies. Hopefully more African civs are coming with the dlc (along with the southeast asia for my side of the world).
Benin sounds like an interesting civ to add, but will most likely be a part of a Nigerian civ if the trend with other civs stand.
Also, I think it's only the leader of the Kongo civ that can't build holy sites not the Kongo civ itself. It's fitting for him because he was a convert, but other African civs or even alternative leaders for the Kongo will be able to found religions through holy sites

 

[Guandao]

Hopefully there will be more African civs in the future, definitely Ethiopia, a Saharan empire, Carthage, and Zulus will be added. And maybe Morocco. But I would like a few more, like Ashanti (Kumasi is in the game as a city-state), Benin Kingdom, Nubia, and Madagascar.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Thread closed. Please discuss Kongo in this thread.