Level up: Emperor & Immortal with 4 games

[Gasp]

I beg 50 from Saladin. Good tip again
My Warrior south I thought was lost because I did not want to delay the attack. But he managed to stay alive

As expected I DoW Sitting Bull on t112 and take Mound City the next turn, losing 1 jumbo and 1 axe.

Spoiler :

The plan is to attack his strongest cities first, so Cahokia it is: Great Wall + the Mids!!!

Spoiler :

Since the attack of Cahokia didn't require all my army, some units moved north to his stone city: Mesa Verde

Spoiler :

And so on we take the rest... all the rest:

Spoiler :

I actually moved units south for defense. These units took SB's Horses city Spiro. I like it, it's a good spot.

But I can't add enough picture to show the last cities. I also razed one north in the desert...

After a good war, I have a big territory:

Spoiler :

Now I have to recover. Most of my cities are stagnating at the moment until whip-anger decrease. But I'm lucky and got the Mids. I have a choice to make, Representation or HR ? HR is nice but I don't really need extra happiness in cities that were SB's. Therefore Rep could be nicer: I can run GS and it gives me extra science!
What do you think?
Something I've seen is that Saladin was teching peacefully to Feudalism and is now 3T away from CoL. So I may not need to self-tech CoL if I could trade for it. Instead I get Mediation and save cash. I can then bulb Philo.
Feudalism also means I can't attack Saladin for a while now. Even if he had nothing it would not be wise to go to war just yet
We should not forget that I have currently 2 GS waiting in Moscow and 1 GG (no idea how to use him yet).

 

[dutchfire]

Looking at the pictures, you need a lot of workers to make the jungle productive. Now is probably a good moment to think how you want to use these cities. Commerce, production, GPP? Building farms, cottages or watermills/workshops?

With your GSs lined up, going Philosophy -> Liberalism -> Military Tradition sounds reasonable, then you can use Cuirassiers to take on Saladin. If you've got promoted War Elephants, they can be upgraded later.

War Elephants vs protective longbows is also very possible, but not necessarily nice when it is not needed.

Getting Optics+Caravels to meet the others and circumnavigate should be a bit of a priority as well.

 

[Gasp]

No need to attack Saladin yet. For now I need him as a trade partner

Optics is one way to go. It's even necessary because I was thinking about bulbing Astro. In this scenario I should not tech CS nor Theocracy which eventually delays Getting to Lib. I don't know if going for Astro first is a big risk of missing Liberalism... I guess I could catch up with techs I need to reach Lib once I meet the other continent's AIs. An while I tech to Astro I could probably have 2 more GS to bulb Edu...

Looking at the pictures, you need a lot of workers to make the jungle productive. Now is probably a good moment to think how you want to use these cities. Commerce, production, GPP? Building farms, cottages or watermills/workshops?

Yes. I took 9 cities... I have only 10 workers at the moment. At least I don't have to do much in my first cities but I think getting another 5 workers is a minimum (I like to have just a few of them usually, maybe it's a mistake).
Specialization of cities is an area of the game I definitely have to improve, I need to understand the mechanics better. I'd appreciate guidance from more experimented players on that matter
But firstly, now is a good time to (re)read a thread about it before I can decide.

 

[elitetroops]

Building the optimal amount of units is quite hard. Here I get the feeling you built a bit too much, as you have 18 elephants still standing at the end of the war and no plans for further warfare in the near future. Since you don't plan to go to war in the near future, why are you building 4 barracks? Overall I think you have built too many barracks in your core as well. Less barracks and less units would have meant less whipping, which in turn now would translate to larger and more productive cities.

The whip anger situation is quite bad at the moment, but with mids you can sort that out. Actually, you should have sorted it out a long time ago, you've had them for 17 turns and you're still in Despotism! I'd usually go with Rep, but you do have those 18 WEs standing around which could be useful in HR... I'd probably still pick Rep. Trade gems for silver to Sal immediately (he has three, the trade must have been available quite a while), it looks like you'll soon get wine and gold from him as well, and with Calendar you get sugar yourself. With those and Rep you should be fine. Anyway, you need to get to work all your food resources asap. It's painful to see capital not working pig and cow!

I'd say Optics is your next important tech goal. Need to get to know the other continent. Then bulb astro.

 

[Gasp]

Building the optimal amount of units is quite hard. Here I get the feeling you built a bit too much,

I definitely built too much. Two things can explain this: 1- I don't have enough experience with Elepult-rush. I feared SB protective trait could be problematic. 2- SB didn't care about defending himself i.e. he didn't built many units during war time for some reason. I guess he was too busy expanding.
And so you're right with your development...

Actually, you should have sorted it out a long time ago, you've had them for 17 turns and you're still in Despotism!

that's a problem, once I got the Mids I thought.. hmm it may be too early to go into anarchy, I need more units quickly. Then I forgot... I was absorbed by this war. But Saladin got Silver not long ago, when he settled his tundra city south.
It's nice that you confirm my thought of adopting Rep instead of HR. This and trades should be enough to work resources.

A question: considering I'll have CoL soon, shall I adopt Caste also and run many specialist (I think 2 cities can run GS and some other run GM) or wait?

And finally I've been thinking a bit of what to do with my cities. I struggle to find a good Production city. Moscow is by far the best I have. Cahokia has many potential as well.
As for GP farms I see 2 good spots: Novgorod and Cahokia. They both have 2 food ressources providing respectively 11 and 12
Riverside cities will be commerce city. Especially Yeka and Yaroslav.

Question2: Where (and when) would you mostly build workshops? Rostov and Spiro?

 

[Gasp]

Hello hello I come with a small update to T143 (so 10 turns)

T133
Get Sal’s silver vs. Gems

Spoiler :

Manage cities so they can grow and build something else than Barracks Half of them do Wealth, the rest does Library or Lighthouse.
Delete many units: I had 35 units cost, I now have 19. Thus I won’t build any more Worker (I think I can do without for now).
Adopt Representation.

T134
I get Mediation (end of the turn)

T135
I decide to research CoL because I’m sure Saladin will not trade it soon enough. Slider will remain at 0% for some turns though. I have 190 and lose 27 per turn.
My aim is to bulb Philo the turn I have CoL and run Rep+Caste+Pacifism.

T136
I re-negociate a deal and now get 9 gpt for my Corn.
I beg 90 from Sal
I set slider to 10% towards CoL (9T)

T137
Taoism is founded somewhere already… would have been nice to found it but I don’t really care

Spoiler :

I sell Mediation for 30

T140
Slider to 50% allows me to finish CoL this turn
I sell HBR to Saladin for 30 (he was 1T away)

T141
Bulb Philo
Adopt Pacifism + Caste

T143
I’m out of anarchy finally!
I am low on cash, so the plan is to entirely support my research with GS. Cahokia, Moscow and Novgorod can run a few but not only these.

Spoiler :

Moscow can run 2 GS and still grow pretty fast. A third GS should be there soon.

2 GS in Petersburg. It won't change much here I think.

Novgorod will be able to run 5 GS soon.

1GS here to slow down growth.

I missed the opportunity to whip the Library here. But it's going to be a nice city.

Yakursk does a settler for that filler fish-city north. This city cannot really do anything better, working water tiles isn't so great.

Cahokia is a good city, lots of food, good production. I could run 4-5 GS here. I probably should farm a few tiles that were cottaged.

I also get Wine from Sal (not shown on screenshot).
As you can see I produce over 90 per turn with the slider at 0%, that’s pretty nice for a beginning, especially if we consider my empire was a mess 10T ago

Well I’m not sure if I want to research Calendar yet. Probably MC or Compass are better. The goal is to research Optics ASAP.
If someone could check I'm not doing too many mistakes (workers, cities, etc.) I'd happy

I believe I could bulb Astronomy very soon (shall I put 2 bulb in it?), probably in 20 turns. Then the goal will be to get to Liberalism. I'm pretty sure (unless I'm very unlucky with my GP and I don't have GS from Cahokia) I'll have Lib around 1200 AD.

 

[Fippy]

I would suggest trying for great merchants rather than scientists
Sally has the ToA, so you get 1100 gold / mission.

For now that would help you more in reaching Optics, at which point you get more trading partners.
+ you already have 1 GS for Astro bulb.

Settled great general in Moscow would be nice, worth ~5 beakers with Rep.
Calendar only needed for Astro, i would pick Optics techs first.
Sugar for happy seems not needed.

Some cities with low food will probably never need a military unit for happy, deleting some more warriors and archers makes sense.
Mesa Verde, Chaco Canyon, Moundville, Nanih Waiya.
Overall i might just delete all warriors and archers, and move those units worth more inside.

 

[Gasp]

Thank you Fippy!
i did exactly what you said and reduced my unit cost to 10 per turn on T143 (2 more units to delete). I also switch GS to GM and research to MC. I make 34 gpt at 0% research.

Spoiler :

Now I can play further

T144
Saladin will trade Gold! Good news, I give him copper and he gives me his gold and 1 per turn.
I seize that opportunity to delete another 2 units (warrior+archer) and with growth my unit cost is now reduced to 4 per turn.

T147
I run 18 GM overall now. I have enough gold for 2T at 100% research which is enough to research MC.

T148
I see a stack from Saladin at my border. I read the thread know your enemy before so I remember well that Saladin cannot DoW me at Pleased. Still I was scared for a bit

Spoiler :

T149
I set research to Machinery (9T)
I have a GM in Cahokia; really lucky. I send him toward Mecca, the ToA city.

T153
I have Machinery end of the turn. Compass will be next
GM has arrived and provides 1100 with his trade mission, that's nice. But maybe I could have waited until Mecca grows to size 14. I read from @WastinTime that it gives an extra traderoute. Without any information I couldn't wait though!

Spoiler :

T154
End of this turnset. Let's see what I'm doing in some cities

Spoiler :

Moscow stagnates for some turns but will produce another GP eventually:

Cahokia is a good GP farm, I farmed 3 tiles instead of cottages/hamlet here. I could run another 2 GM.

Settler is done next turn:

Saladin is a very bad trading partner for me, why didn't I make him Friendly?!:

Spoiler :

After Compass it'll take 3T to research Optics. I have more than enough gold to research it. I'll bulb Astro then (which should give me about half the beakers I need).
With Optics I must build at least 2 Caravels. One city (Snaketown I think) received a chop 1t ago and his on the eastern coast. Mesa Verde may do the second one to be sent west. Yatusk may do a 3rd one (but I don't think it's necessary).
Next update we'll finally see some new faces, let's hope some friendly ones

Edit: What can I do to get Saladin to Friendly?
1- Wouldn't it be smart to actually run GS in a city soon? Even though I already have one, I could use another 2 for Edu. I probably can have one in Cahokia on time for Edu but not a second (city could be Novgorod). So is it worth running GS in Novgorod still?

2- Another question: after Astro I'll research CS, I'll adopt Bureaucracy. Is it worth considering moving my capitol to Yeka?

3- And finally, after CS do I get Paper or Nationalism? I tend to prefer Nationalism over paper but this delays Lib. On the other hand it allows me to have MT as a free tech...

 

[Gasp]

Hi fanatics!

Since I’m not having feedbacks I must do the reasoning myself, maybe it’s for the best Here it is:

Saladin to Friendly?
The idea obviously is to get more tech trade. « Saladin will trade techs that don't unlock units or buildings to human when 40% of the other AIs also know the tech »: I don’t know if this will work but if he knows just me, it means that every tech he has will be known by 50% of players which is enough for him to trade?
I currently have +10 diplo points with him which is the minimum to get an AI to Friendly. So 1 extra point should be enough for that. The only factor to increase diplo point I don’t already have is « Shared civics ». His favorite civic is Theocracy so that’s what I need to adopt for an instant +1 point because he’s using it… but I don’t want to do so until I’m out of Caste nor research it yet.
Result: I wait until I start building Cuirs to adopt Theocracy. I have a short window for trades just before I DoW him.

Run GS in some cities?
I have 2 GP farm with Novgorod and Cahokia. When these are done with their current GPerson, they'll run GS.
In 4T Moscow will produce a GM, then I can let the city grow. Novgorod will produce another GM 2T later and run up to 5 GS. Cahokia will need some extra turns (like 3 or 4) to produce another GM (hopefully) = T164. I can then have this city to run 6 GS thus getting one 12T later, T178, right on time for Education.
I may have enough time and GPPoints from Novgorod to produce the 2nd GS for the Liberalism race. This should be around T182. Hm.. this may be too late, I could use him to bulb PPress though.

Moving my Bureau capitol to Yeka?
This depends if I need or not… Moscow has a lot, with Bureau it’ll be an effective production city, it may build a Forge also.
On the other hand Yeka will do more commerce. But I’ll spend 18T slow building that Palace instead of building Wealth. Since I don’t need any other building there it could be worth building a Palace in Yeka. I don’t think I need the Bureau from Moscow.
Result: Yeka is going to be my capitol.

Paper or Nationalism?
Nationalism: Starting on the Taj (in Cahokia) earlier is nice and I’m not scared about Lib since I’ll have my 2nd GS to bulb it (or not). But first and after Optics it’ll be Calendar and CS.
Now I realize Theology isn’t planned… let’s steal some techs with Spies!

Of course none of the above take in consideration trades I could make with newly discovered AIs.

Civic change during GA:
Once I have me 2nd GS I have no reason to remain with Caste and Pacifism. Next civics are needed for war preparation (i.e. Cuirs rush on Saladin): Slavery + Theocracy is a must. I can remain with Bureaucracy although Free Speech is an option because I’ll have a decent number of towns. The real unknown to me here is what to pick as a Govmt civic? Don’t forget I have the Mids! Representation will no longer be needed, HR happiness neither and Police State don’t help much. Universal Suffrage could be sweet (extra from many towns) though.

I think I have a plan, now the game report to T166!

Compass got stolen by Saladin just the turn I get it...
Later, I get Optics and start building 3 Caravels to explore east and west. The last obstacle toward Astro is Calendar so we research it. Astro will then receive 1 bulb from an existing GS. This is working well.

I get my GM from Moscow and send it to Mecca for a trade mission. I'll do the same with those from Novgorod and Cahokia, in total I got 1100+1100+1300=3500

Spoiler trade mission#3 :

Instead of running GS in the capital as I thought, I decided to let it grow and get my GS in another city: Novgorod. With only 2 tiles in runs as many specialists than Moscow and doesn't have anything other good tile to work. Moscow on the contrary has many cottages to grow.

My settler is out and goes to the western fish/jungle spot. The city will be founded once a workboat is in position.

Finally we get the fruits of our ocean exploration and meet these guys!

Spoiler Hello :

Ragnar crushed Fred already. He'll be a tough opponent I suppose.

With whom I make good trades against Philosophy; i got Aesthetics, PH and Poly from Fred and Littérature from Ashoka. Saladin also gave me Monotheism and Monarchy.
Of course I got all the happy resources I could get as well as their gold per turn.

Spoiler Resources :

After Astronomy I researched CS, switch to Bureau and then set research to Nationalism (5T). That's where we are now

i did pretty much what I wrote above. So Novgorod and Cahokia are starving on GS. The latter is very effective and will have a Forge soon to build a faster Taj Mahal (unless Moscow does it).

Spoiler Cahokia :

Yeka is to become my new capitol soon. I thought this is a good idea but then I realized that Moscow has an Academy so it may still be a better capitol despite having less commerce... I want to build that Palace though it could be a mistake.

Spoiler Yeka :

Moscow grows well and did a forge.

Spoiler Moscow :

I'm pretty good with technology but not enough to feel very confident,

Spoiler Tech trade :

I ambition to give Astro to Ashoka against Feudalism + Music if it works I'll get more traderoutes.

let's hope I can keep an edge over Saladin before I can DoW. Or else i'll just run over the other continent. I didn't really consider this but it may be a better option...
For those waiting in the shadow for the war, be a little more patient, it's imminent!
As always any comment is appreciated

 

[Gasp]

I played until T182. We met the last AI, teched to Lib and MT, a GA is coming so there are many things to plan from now on.
I'm taking any opinion on who I should attack first!

Spoiler Peter's land :

Spoiler update to T182 :

I meet Brennus south of their continent. It appears that he controls the south of the continent, above is Asoka then Ragnar and Fred.
I make some trade with Brennus for his 7 gpt and Marble. And I get Feuda and Music from Asoka against Astro.
The Indian Empire is at war with Ragnar and his vassal Frederick, I figured I want to help him. He also gave me his map so I can see the other continent now and confirm what I thought.

Spoiler Asoka's land :

I research Nationalism as expected, then Paper. And after that I took MT… No real reason to do so at this moment… but it allowed me to use a GS on Edu and finish it in 1T once I got MT.
I had in mind to build the Taj in Cahokia but I let Moscow grow instead of running specialists so it has more .Cahokia finished a Forge and after than built the NE. It’ll be useful later.

In the meantime, Yeka became my new capitol with 55 base commerce. If I have another GS I could do an Academy there but for now I’m starting on an Observatory.

With Edu in the pocket I then reached Liberalism, first, in 1210 AD. Without MT as a choice, I picked Economics as a Free tech and I decided to research Gunpowder which will be completed on T184. I just

Spoiler Here is a screenshot of trades :

I just sold them my map for all their gold and renegociated my resources for more of their gpt

The good news is that I got a free GM from the discovery of Economics. Now I could bulb Constitution or start a GA. I have the Mids so I don’t really need a government tech. Instead I’ve the opportunity to start a GA before the Taj is built (T184-185). Thus getting an extra turn of golden age.
A GA now allows for a change of civics 3 turns earlier than expected and the production of military units as well.
Novgorod will produce a GS next turn, at this moment I’m going to change civics. I think I’m going to partially bulb PPress with that GS. It’ll be nice for when I’m running 100% during the war.

Talking about war, I saw that Ragnar has his cities built on flat land but also has the AP… I was seriously considering him as my 1st target until I saw that. Him and his vassal have all the votes. I guess I could have trouble if I go to him first.
Except that Uppsala is on 1 tile off the coast and I can attack it at DoW+1. I don’t know how the AP mechanism works be I believe this should be enough time to capture the city.

Spoiler Ragnar's land :

On the other hand, the idea of exterminating Saladin before he becomes a problem is appealing. The pros are that it doesn’t require any boat nor moving accros the ocean so it’s faster to start and he’s not at war… Consrotective trait, has the 2 first cities I want to attack on hills, and probably many Pikes.
I know Saladin can be a tough opponent. I’ll have to carefully scout his land before I decide what to do.

Spoiler Saladin's land :

Maybe I should also go against Brennus?

Spoiler Brennus' land :

Spoiler Glance at the diplomacy screen :

You can see that Saladin is finally Friendly towards me. I refused to join the war when both Fred and Asoka asked, they used to be pleased toward me.

 

[Fippy]

Weird that you get no feedback, i keep forgetting sorry..

 

[Gasp]

Still T182 but here I started a GA. It's the opportunity to change civics:

Spoiler Civics now are as follows :

With this change I had to manage my cities again because I can no longer run GM and happy cap changes.

Spoiler Domestic advisor :

I also start on Galleons in coastal cities. These can be queued while I do Cuirs or I can whip them if necessary.

Don't worry Fippy as I mentioned it forced me to think and play alone (let's just hope I didn't screw up too much), it's been 3 games I get many feedbacks

Edit: in case I screwed up I can still update from T182 pre-GA save.