Ljosalfar AI

[Sandro]

I currently playing a game as khazad which started out brilliantly flavorful with me starting in a cold mountain pass opening out to a large forest inhabited with the Ljosalfar (using the Creation map). Unfortunately for world peace Thessa chose to put a town right outside the pass effectively blocking the way, and since I could not pursuade her to sign an open borders agreement, war was the only option.

Here comes the complaints over the Ljosalfar AI. I should mention that Thessa follows the Leaves religion which suits both the story and the terrain the occupies. There are however two main points that spoils the fun somewhat:

1. It seems the AI is unaware that improvements can be made in forests when playing Ljosalfar (probably the same holds for svart). Thessa has several workers idling in her cities while no forests have been improved.
2. Thessa has failed to research archery (maybe she is just increadibly slow at researching since she does not have a single cottage-imp. even though her forests should be full of them) blocking access to archers and the powerful early Ljosalfar hero.

These to points makes it a lot less challenging to wager war against what should be a very tough defensive opponent. Is there anyway to script a rush to archery (or education if the improvement of forests is AI enabled) and is the AI's inability to improve forests a known issue?

Cheers,

Sandro

 

[Sandro]

Ok, now she has archers (I play with the no building requirement AI option) so I guess the only real issue here is the lack of forest improvements.

Cheers,

Sandro

 

[Monkeyfinger]

wut? I see tons of improvements in the forests of elven AIs I play against.

 

[xienwolf]

Maybe she doesn't have Education yet? Cities are probably at the Happy cap since it is too early for GoN civic, so placing more farms then are already out isn't worthwhile either.

 

[Bluenoise]

AI definatley builds improvements in Forests. As far as I understand the AI for an automated worker and an computer oponent worker are identical. And when I play the elves my workers build tonnes of farms in my forests.

 

[Calbrenar]

My guess is he's not patched. My friend and I tried not installing any FFH patches for OOS reasons and Elves can't build in forests in that version. Going to try J when we finish this game.

 

[Alzara]

Im sure I remember seeing somewhere that opponents cannot see improvements in ancient forests or something like that?

Al

 

[Mesix]

Another AI issue with the Elves (and any AI that uses FOL religion) is that they tend to build a lot of disciples for no reason. In almost every game that I have played since BTS (using patches a through j), the AI players have like 30+ Disciple of the Leaves units defending their cities and few or no real defenders even if they have a good tech lead.

I realize that this is very similar to the problem in Vanilla BTS where the AI builds Corporate Executives nonstop, so it is probably an inherited problem with the AI. It would be nice if it could be tweaked though. If the AI built T3 and T4 units to defend their cities, it would go a long way to making the game more competitive.

 

[Sandro]

The game is patched. You could be right about the education tech, but farms are still useful, even if happy-capped, for building settlers and workers and of course for when the happy-cap rises so you she does not have to start building farms from scratch with the slow workers...

 

[Bluenoise]

You know what?? Now they wont build in forests for me too!!! Hmmm. I recently installed one of the newer patches.

So this might be because of the new patch (j).

However I think I have a theory that it's because I have the automated workers leave forests option ticked. I'm going to toggle it and see if they will start building farms...

Nope that didn't help. Now they're building forts and lumbermills everywhere but no farms...

They build plantations in forest though

Hey you said you're using the creation map script when you get this problem? So am I, my first time using it and the first time I've gotten this problem. I'm going to try on a different map.

 

[Demus]

since the recent change to the way elven improvements are built (no seperate "elven cottage", but the normal improvement being built without removing the forest), the increase in yield for building the improvement still states the forest being removed (the time it takes to build that improvement also accounts for the chopping of the forest). It could be the AI thinks it would remove the forest by building an improvement over a forest (like a farm or a cottage). In this case, the elven AI could be reluctant to "chop" their forests this early, and therefore that AI won't built as much on forests.

Just a theory though

 

[SwordofStriker]

I'm patched to J, and the only thing I see the elves building in forests is mines. They seem to understand that at least.

 

[Bluenoise]

Okay I'm pretty sure I've figured this out. I think part of the problem for me is that the creation map places the elves is such a good starting position for elves (Forests and lots of rivers) that they really have no need to build farms. All my cities basically rose in population like mad and got stuck at happieness cap very quickly. Before then all my settlers were busy building resource improvements, and by the time happyness cap hit they no longer needed to increase food for city growth since my cities could no longer grow.
Now as the AI is BUGGED it thinks that building a farm will destroy the forest.
And since loosing 2 production and gaining 2 food is pointless (if your cities can't grow) the AI wont build farms on forests.

So the solution... remove the listed looss to production for elves building on forests!!!

I'd be willing to bet if you placed an elven city in an area surounded by hills (or something else that gives little food and okay production) with only a couple forests within reach that have a water source that their workers will build farms on those forrests...

 

[Steelshark]

Hi,
I have a short question that is only remotely related to the problem discussed here but i'll ask anyway (since I do not know which keywords I should use for the forum search).:

How exactly can I get a map that is "in tune" with the scenario? Is there a "THE map of erebus" / and where would i find it?

Also, whenever i start a custom game, and i want to redraw the map i have to select EVERYTHING again... number of civs / which leaders and so on. Is there a way to implement the "redraw" function from beyond the sword? I am extremely picky about my starting position and i hat the "select/load/repeat"-procedure..

I hope someone can help me with this, or at least direct me to the right Thread.

br,
steel

 

[xienwolf]

Nikis-Knight's 19 Civ map is pretty good for an Erebus Proper type map if I recall properly. I think there is another out there, but cannot recall it at the moment.

 

[rhuntar]

Hi,
Also, whenever i start a custom game, and i want to redraw the map i have to select EVERYTHING again... number of civs / which leaders and so on. Is there a way to implement the "redraw" function from beyond the sword? I am extremely picky about my starting position and i hat the "select/load/repeat"-procedure..

i remember reading a kael mention that the regenerate map function was disabled for FFH2... i don't recall why, but there is a thread somewhere...
-rhuntar

 

[Nimbus]

i remember reading a kael mention that the regenerate map function was disabled for FFH2... i don't recall why, but there is a thread somewhere...
-rhuntar

The reason is that when you regenerate a map you lose the gaurantees that Kael built into the map generator that certain resources will appear, so you then can get maps that are missing key resources most of the time.