Ljosalfar Survival Challenge

Draconian

Templar of Doom
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
291
Location
Germany
I recently started a "survival game" playing Arendel Phaedra (the game is impossible to win and I am just trying to survive as long as possible) and I thought it might be fun if others played the same game, everyone trying to survive for the longest time.

Enemies:
Charadon of the Doviello
Sheelba of the Clan of Embers
Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers

Settings:
Deity
Standard size pangaea (no islands, there is NO escape)
Normal speed

Raging Barbarians
Always War
Blessing of Amathaon
Living World
No Vassal States

Victory Conditions:
Conquest only

Starting position:
Spoiler :
attachment.php


Lets see who can survive the most turns, no reloads please.
Bonus points if you somehow manage to WIN :D
 

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Spoiler :
Turn 38 :( I made a few errors despite picking a good spot (on plain hill to work rice and remnants). I went worker first (I actually thought I would be able to defend a tile!), and wasted a few turns teching ancient before I realized I didnt start with agriculture (I thought I would get cottages! haha) Being accustomed to the settings would have helped untold amounts. Attached is the last autosave, (I auto every 15 turns).

Can we try again with the same settling place? Different?
 
Try again as often as you like, different or same settling place doesn't matter.

I researched Archery right away and built Gilden and some Archers. Got beaten to FoL by 4 turns.

The game was going quite well until turn 300, I had Gilden, 2 Hunters and 4 Archers in my capitol. All units around 150-200xp, one Archer was at lvl 19 and Gilden had Orthus Axe.

At turn 301 I lost Gilden attacking an unpromoted Drown at 99,9%, that Drown got a bunch of promotions for killing Gilden and procceded to kill my lvl 19 Archer as well.
A few turns later an Eidolon showed up, I was still researching the tech for rangers, and was finally beaten at turn 321.
 

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I had just given up on ever defending a tile. Resigned to spamming warriors and teching hunting first, turn 57 I got hunting (I should have made less warriors and worked more commerce), I'm deciding on archery or FoL.

Perhaps with hunters, writing (for library and building research), FoL, Priests (1 at home and one for army), then finally assassins and maelstrom mages (leaving uber_warrior upgraded to archers at home?), I might be able to attack the AI?

Most important things for posters to specify

1) Where did you settle.
2) What did you get from the 3 huts.

Spoiler :
I settle on plain-hill to work remnant and rice. I got gold (this is my 5th try).
 
About turn 80, and I just now discovered that the AI's are allied against you. I thought 'always war' meant that EVERYONE was always at war with EVERYONE.

Gonna see if I can use a few centennials to take out Charadon.


Edit:

Got bored of playing 'city defense' around turn 110. Just don't seem to be enough decision to be made during the game to keep me interested.. There are literally more barbarians than I can support units to aggressively attack through, so.. yeah 'yawn' is pretty much it.

I actually think you might be able to actively win this map, if you can somehow get another town under your belt early on. Hard to do with a pair of scouts, for sure.

Oh, I got Agriculture, and 92 gold from the three huts.
 
Hmm, thinking about it some more, going for education is probably a complete waste in this situation. You just won't be able to work those cottages, and experience isn't lacking, nor is your empire large.

Go ancient chants + Mysticism. 17 to 20 science from base + 50% + elder council sounds better than 9 a turn forever...
 
Perhaps with hunters, writing (for library and building research), FoL, Priests (1 at home and one for army), then finally assassins and maelstrom mages (leaving uber_warrior upgraded to archers at home?), I might be able to attack the AI?

I think by then it will be to late to attack, the AIs will probably already have national units. I saw the first Eidolon at turn 318.

It might be possible to win if you settle on plains/hill, get some Archers with Combat and Drill to defend and start attacking with Gilden and some other units asap.

The longer you wait, the more you fall behind on techs. And when the AI gets Assassins you're probably dead anyway.

About turn 80, and I just now discovered that the AI's are allied against you. I thought 'always war' meant that EVERYONE was always at war with EVERYONE.

Oh if the AIs were at war with each other aswell this would be to easy, wouldn't it? :D
 
I started burning Jonas, but only managed 2 cities before I lost a super-unit or two.
 
My savegames were made with patch h.
They should work with BtS 3.17 and FFH 0.32h.
 
normalized score 199861
score 1189

settled on the hill left to the rice, close to remnants of Patria

a few details on the game for those interested:
Let's mention that I did 3-4 unfinished tries before playing that game.

I got 5-6 goody huts + a graveyard - I just ran with my scouts, and turned back when I saw frontiers or troops, in order to get as many as possible, I even left the one over my city for a few turns, as I knew the two Clanites had only one move guys and I had some time.

One of the two scouts died killed by a random beast, the other one came back and slightly helped with its move of two to kill goblins and come back.

I had a few techs (cartography, ancestral songs, another one)

The only important one was "ancestral songs" (not sure of the name in English, the one before mysticism and education)
It gave me the time to research Mysticism early, which was the key to victory.
God king made my production big enough. It also boosted my science with 2 points + scientist + great scientist settled later in the game.

Tiles:
Rice till 1 food left to grow, then remnants

Build order:
warriors till I get Mysticism
then elder council
then warriors again
till I am around -2, -3 coins per turn
wall
new warriors
then Gilden Silveric
then Ljosafar archery
then Archers

The other important point was in battles, i battled a lot in attack, in order to kill more guys and make more xp, as soon as I knew I had really high chance to survive both attack + counter attack, I did - you can really laverage your warriors this way. More kills, more xp, more good tiles to work often when you kill ennemies staying on them.

Promotions (always the same for every guys):
combat 1
shock 1
combat 2
combat 3
shock 2
march

then as soon as I have a few guys like that (2-3) the guys are ready, and can go and try to fight elsewhere

on the way, they'll get
combat 4
combat 5
then the rest.

fights required a lot of micormanagement, reworking each tiles of the city.

Gilderic helped againt the few annoying guys (Doviello axemen, and the 3 hill giants built by Sheelba), but I think could have done without him. At the end in fact, he was less efficient than the best warriors as he did not have march. March made by experienced warriors better than my experienced archers. But two or three of the giants were killed by defending archers. I think one killed one of my bets warriors.

I first killed the Doviellos, then the South east clan, and came back with everyone with the closer eastwards clan (the one with the hill giants).

I like this kind of scenarios, it is a real challenge ! good idea to have posted it, Draconian!

Maybe in fact maybe raging barbs made it easyer, what would have I done against a combined attack of warriors with unpromtted guys on my side ?
That's why I prefer immortal to deity and do not play with raging barbs ... it just makes your warriors too strong and you just take half of the map with them ...

I did not try to milk the score - for me the only thing that matters is the finish date, not the milking, maybe I could have done faster ... I was still teching for fun instead of promoting.

I think I can redo it if I get ancestral songs from a hut. I don't know how I'll manage without.
 
just retried it - to see if I had been really lucky in first game

Conquest turn 111.


same strategy for the beginning, also got ancient chants from a goody hut, but another one.

same warrior promotions and stuff. I did a mistake putting a hill defense promotion instead of of combat 1 when I felt being pressed during the first enemy attack. it's bad cause it makes this guy defend frequently. And you really need a combat 3 - shock 2 - march asap. But he died in a 98? % fight. Punishement for not staying on line.

completely different strategy for the mid game: no tracking, archers, gilden silveric ... just rushing to weapons promotions after mysticism ...

and it turned much better ... much more numerous units, practically equivalent, and even better for highly promotted guys with march.

I think I did more attacks than defensive fights this game.

I had a few problems with 1 wolf raider, that did not want to get close but could reach many cases in my cross.

And a few other ones with Doviellos, with a few combat lost around ~90 % ... happily I could take their copper city in time.
 
Pretty impressive. I think that shows pretty clearly how unbalanced copper warriors and shock promotions are. After all your leader has pretty useless traits for warmongering.

Imagine aggressive/raiders or one of the cha guys.
 
Yes, exactly,


this kind of challenges really reveals the things that work better.

and warriors are definitely strong - I thought about building the training yard and the power 4 guys ... but the difference of cost makes an army of warrior for the same price much better.

Once again, I think raging barbs made it easier.

That's also why I enjoy more immortal than deity, because half of my deity wins only require warrior rushing, with the many xp they get from multiple barbarians.

It's also why I do not like to play guys like Tasunke.

The difference between warrior and archer or axeman is huge in vanilla civ - and you can build those guys fast, and the cost ratio is much higher.

I don't mean it's better in Vanilla, it's just experienced warrior rush maybe takes a place too big in FFH !
 
At high difficulty level the only reason for technology is to get sea transports to invade other continents. On pangea (single landmass games) the optimum strategy is extremely simple as highlighted by François: maximize production (what makes the scenario easier is the presence of remnants of patria), spam warriors, promote them with shock II, set tech/cash ration to cash only to support a large army, and go as soon as possible. Faster is easier because the more you wait the more the AI players become more powerful relative to you.
 
At high difficulty level the only reason for technology is to get sea transports to invade other continents.

On immortal, standard size pangea, 'play now', I can get archmages. Even on deity, sometimes.

"Survival" settings is a different story.
 
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