LK105, AWM, 25K, RaR

[LKendter]

I have decided to do one of these in RaR. This will be the ONLY RaR version. RaR is just too different with the 2 move roads breaking the standard AW city placement, and switch to offense being stronger then defense.


Signed Up:
LKendter
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Difficulty = Monarchy
Civilization = TBD
Barbs = None
World Size = Standard, 60% water, Pangaea

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

Additional restrictions:
Armies may NOT be used more then 5 tiles from a cultural border.

Leaders may ONLY be used for armies or to rush a building in the 25K city. If you can't form an army the leader must go to the 25K city.

I hope we get a few leaders this game to pull of another finish a wonder, and rush a small wonder move. That is the big thing that has LK103 in such great shape for culture.


This is the standard LK AW type game with NO initial trading.


Sign up requirements -
1) Previous AW experience, preferably emperor.
2) 25K win, preferably at emperor, or 20K win at emperor in standard C3C
3) Previous RaR experience

 

[LKendter]

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.

Ship chaining exploit - you can move a ship, unload troops to another ship in the same square not using any movement, move that ship, etc. This allows you to ship an indefinite distance, and that is why I consider it an exploit.

The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.

Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.

Worker baiting - You can't spread around and sacrifice workers to an oncoming attack. This is often done to avoid losing real units or cities. This takes advantage of the AI failure to prioritize targets.

Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.



Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.

2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.

3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ. The ONLY exception is a pure per-turn deal if it is the last war of the game. I still don't like this, but this is a concession to the SG community standards.

4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.

5) As you probably know barbs are screwed up in C3C. It is preferred that you add the following line to your Civ3 .ini file - noAIpatrol=0. Adding "noAIpatrol=0" to the .ini file turns the annoying patrolling back on for the AIs, but also restores movement to the barbarians.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

lurker's comment: Not a signup.

I think sacrificing workers could play a big role in this game if you end up razing lots of high population AI cities.

 

[romeothemonk]

A few comments
1) This game just screams for Theocracy and the 80 culture sacrafice.
2) Army restriction is relatively worthless as early RaR armies are relatively worthless. By tanks, this one is in the bag.
3) Any restrictions on the 3 GL's?
4) I would recommend Tibet, but I cannot remember if you have played with them before. Otherwise Rome is really powerful in RaR AW.
5) I honestly don't think I have a 25k win as all my attempts at it, even the OCC ones end in conquest. (So I couldn't signup anyway)
6) Any restricitions on sacraficing?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

lurker's comment: I'd be a bit underqualified for this I believe. 25k OCC RaR win on Monarch, so that checks out RaR, but perhaps not the 25k. AWM experience on C3C, which doesn't quite check the AWE either.

So, if the roster needs a filling up, I'm interested. Otherwise I'll gladly step out, lurk and learn.

 

[LKendter]

3) Any restrictions on the 3 GL's?

None, but I would be surprised to see the third one

5) I honestly don't think I have a 25k win as all my attempts at it, even the OCC ones end in conquest. (So I couldn't signup anyway)

I just realized the 25K win may be too restrictive, so I swapped to the below. I want some experience with single city culture win. 2) 25K win, preferably at emperor, or 20K win at emperor in standard C3C

6) Any restrictions on sacrificing?

I really don't want another 25K sacrifice game. I will have to get a better feel after I put a team together. I was thinking of a builders 25K.

 

[Zorn]

lurker's comment: I am currently playing RaR AWM games, it`s really a lot of fun, but brutally hard (vs 15 AIs on pangea). Out of like 10 or 15 games I could hang on only in two, and in one of them I still got overwhelmed by dragoons and curassiers from 5 nations at the end of the MA.
I know than none of you guys probably needs my advice, but I will give it nevertheless.
What i found out is that the point that made or broke my games (besides bad luck with meeting too many AIs) is if I could get the Sphinx or not. Of course, in a 25K game you would build it anyway...
GL is no issue in RaR, the AIs never go for it.

As for barbarians, i found them more helpful then troublemaking. With enemies closing in from all sides, these unintended borderguards take quite a few enemies out.

But you guys know better than I what to do anyway, I have yet to win at least one AWM.

 

[sanabas]

I will sign up, saves starting my own AW RaR. I vote for banning sacrifices in 25K city, 25k is easier than C3C 20k with all the extra culture buildings. We'll probably have to watch out for triggering a 50k win though, or turn the 50k limit up to 100k.

5) I honestly don't think I have a 25k win as all my attempts at it, even the OCC ones end in conquest. (So I couldn't signup anyway)

I think I remember a SG with you that we got 25k. I'll have to go check now, I'm curious.

 

[LKendter]

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Sanabas
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[LKendter]

#1

Looks like this one may not have enough interest...

 

[Greebley]

I will sign up.

 

[LKendter]

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We are still looking for 2 more...

 

[ThERat]

ok, since 2 of my games will finish soon, I will give it a go as well...never tried AW RaR SG...should be interesting

agree with NO sacrifices to get 25k, purely buildings

 

[LKendter]

Signed Up:
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It is almost there. Only 1 slot left...

 

[Greebley]

I feel Beorn-eL-Feared is qualified enough to join us if he still wants in.

 

[T_McC]

'twould be nice to see this one, so I'll sign up. But feel free to take Beorn instead of me. Or take us both and run a little longer roster.

Back after lunch with a ramble about tribe selection/strategy.

 

[LKendter]

'twould be nice to see this one, so I'll sign up. But feel free to take Beorn instead of me. Or take us both and run a little longer roster.

Well I don't like 6 people in the roster, as it takes to long between rounds...


Signed Up:
LKendter
Sanabas
Greebley
ThERat
T_McC

Back after lunch with a ramble about tribe selection/strategy.

Just don't forget that in tribe selection recent RaR civs won't be repeated.

Strategy ideas are welcome as RaR breaks the great 3 space city placement. This makes city defense much harder...

 

[T_McC]

On the game objective: We probably want to minimize the amount of culture we build in the non-25K cities to prevent a 50K victory. So this could play like a "Super-Science City" game where only the 25K city builds scientific improvements that generate culture (plus maybe the Palace cities to open up some small wonders that require n of a building.)

I'd argue that we want a Scientific civ so we have some cheap cultural buildings for the 25K city (and it can spend more of its time building GWs), higher probs of SGL's (free GWs), and access to 20-shield, no-culture Libraries for the rest of the empire. That seques into 50-shield Schools of Scribes and 140-shield Labs to complete a pre-Industrial no-culture 150% science boost to the non-25K cities.

Religious is fairly useless since we should only revolt twice (Despotism --> Monarchy --> Abs. Monarchy), and the cheap Religious buildings all generate culture.

I would argue we want Industrious for the 2nd trait. Free native workers means no worries about unit costs, I believe a 3X speed up relative to slaves, and the option to much more easily use captured slaves/workers to generate border expansions without any cultural buildings.

Militaristic gives more MGLs (small wonders) and cheaper Walls when it matters most. The cheaper Barracks and Garrisons are nice, but not essential. I feel it is more important to not have a Militaristic neighbor rather than being Militaristic ourselves.

Sci/Ind is China (strong UU), Sci/Mil is Germany (if the game lasts until Panzers, we've really screwed up), Mil/Ind are the Incans (strong, resourceless UU).

Probably the best UUs for this game are Greece (Sci/Sea) and Ethiopia (Ind/Rel). Seafaring is vaguely useful on a Pangaea, giving us some extra trade from coastal cities. I doubt we have to fear the Harbor/Port/Major Port 2-cpt alternative to Aqueducts for coastal cities (particularly when the sum total of the three buildings is 75 shields).

My vote would be China or Greece.

 

[Zorn]

lurker's comment: Remember that AA units enlave. That means in AW you will end up with a crazy amount of slaves. Allthough they are worthless, their sheer mass means that you most likely won`t need your own workers, especially since mines come late and irrigation extremely late. So imo industrious isn`t crucial for AW.

 

[LKendter]

Another thought is to never upgrade the tribal guardsman. They are the ultimate in cheap MP as they have *no* unit cost.

We probably want to minimize the amount of culture we build in the non-25K cities to prevent a 50K victory.

I agree 100%. This IMO is one area where RaR is really broken. It makes it all to easy to trip 50K by accident when trying for 25K.

and the option to much more easily use captured slaves/workers to generate border expansions without any cultural buildings.

While I hate the whole sacrifice thing in general, you don't sacfrice slaves - period. They only generate 2 culture, and I am not giving up 5 slaves to get a border expansion.