LK45 - Emperor, 100K challenge, 1.21 patch

[LKendter]

World Size = Standard
Continents = 40%, wet, warm and 5 billion years.
Difficulty = Emperor
Barbarians = Roaming.
# Civs = 7
NOT culturally linked, NO restarting players.
We are Babylon, the ultimate civ for the challenge.

This is the newest patch - 1.21. I have no clue when they will finally give non-USA players 1.21, but I can't stay out of date forever.

Signed up:
LKendter
Variant rules

Design in process - to be inserted later.



Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
We are playing with the 1.21 patch

Would you believe the LK series has never had a 100K culture win?

Multiple previous emperor wins are mandatory, as this is HARDER then typical emperor.


The following tactics are PROHIBITED:
RoP Rape - if you have to ask...
RoP Abuse (irrigating all tiles with a city building wonders, denying resources with a RoP, etc.)
Scout resource denial - parking a scout on a resource, as the AI won't ask scouts to leave
False Peace Treaties (must wait for the 20 years to end)
Declaring War to break trade deals including actions like the Demand exploit to force a war, or demanding to leave territory.
False Alliances (ally with several people vs. a civ then peace with that civ), and other actions that completely abuse the AI limited diplomacy ability.
Spy exploit - If you fail to plant a spy, you CAN'T try again. The exploit is: you can infinitely plant a spy until the Civ declares war.
Demand exploit - You may make ONE demand a turn per civ. The exploit is: you can demand to the end of time, and guaranteed to get a civ furious and almost to war.
The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.

 

[LKendter]

We have no takers so far.

It is the 1.21 patch?
To many variant rules?
I don't want a simply wipe out the AI for 100K goal.

Is it the type of win?
I will admit after LK44 - AW game I am not in the mood for another heavy military game.

 

[hotrod0823]

It sounds interesting but I wonder if it is possible with the no-wars variant. The key is getting 100K and at least double the culture of the nearest civ. That is often the reason for all the wars in a cultural game. You may well end up with a culture pushin 200k + and still not win.

I would like to join as I have yet to get a 100K win either. We tried for one on Hot2 but didn't have the desire to milk out the win by razing AI cities and pressing space bar for 100 turns.

The no wars may be a show stopper, being babs helps though.

Hotrod

 

[LKendter]

I am open to suggestions to vary the no wars some.

However, I don't want to repeat GOTM#18 and wipe out have the world to hit 100K.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Lee, I'm in this one if you want me. It's really much more up my alley than 5 of the 6 SG's I've played which are waring varients. I'm much more of a builder in SP games, and take on a lot of these waring SG's to brush up on my warmongery for SP.

Hotrod is right, there needs to be more room for warmaking though.

I'd suggest you change 3 things:

1) On the 2nd turn of enemy presence in our land, and on each turn thereafter we can ask them to leave UNLESS it is a settler pair or a non combative unit (scout or worker). Other units could constitute a "threat" to our security, these units don't since they can't attack (the settler escort will never attack). Regardless, we may never attack settler pairs. Also, don't allow asking units to leave who are caught 2 squares in when founding a new city. Give these units a chance to get out on their own.

2) Dump the forced to cave to demands rule.

3) Change the rule to when we can declare offesive wars to include when we have 150+K culture and do not appear to have twice the culture of the 2nd place. Allow us to go after the 2nd place AI. We can keep the rule about giving their cities back since we'll be wiping out their culture buildings when we take their cities. Obviously, if we are declaring to prevent a launch or to ensure a culture victory, we shouldnt have to stop the war the instant the AI contacts us or will give us reasonable peace either like we would in all other wars.

The real issue is unless you do some waring, you will most likely NEVER get enough land to get to 100K fast enough at this difficulty. I think if you keep the the make peace as soon as reasonable on all the pre 150K culture pre lauch prevention wars, you will minimize the risk of it becoming a war to milk situation which I believe is what you were trying to avoid?

 

[hotrod0823]

Perhaps lowering the civ count will allow more room for expansion. The other thing that happens is falling into almost an ICS just to squeeze more cities in and get there culture. I played Epic 11 I think and failed to win by culture with well over 180K and I was plopping cities anywhere I could and cash rushing buildings just for there culture.

I was not a warmonger due to the unique scoring bonuses for keeping a civ alive but failed to get double the AI.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Actually, how about changing it to a large map with 8 civs?

 

[LKendter]

There is requirement to kiss the AI butt and cave into demands.


I forget a critical word - NO.

The correct phrasing is:
There is *NO* requirement to kiss the AI butt and cave into demands.

=========================================

Originally posted by ToddMarshall
You will minimize the risk of it becoming a war to milk situation which I believe is what you were trying to avoid?

Yes, that is the #1 goal I am after.


I won 100K in GOTM#18, but I eliminated Greece, Rome, Iroquois, and Carthage.
I didn't really fight, but set the scenario for the death of France.
I left Japan crippled to let the other AI wipe him out.
Egypt was doomed when I hit 100K.

England, and China were the only meaningful players at the end of the game.

I will start think more about the rules when I get home.

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

Mind if I join?

 

[LKendter]

@Lord_all_Mighty
I haven't seen you around before.
Can you confirm multiple emperor wins?

================================

Signed up:
LKendter
Hotrod0823
ToddMarshall
Lord_all_Mighty - ?
Open Slot


Variant rules - version 2
The only time we may declare war is
1) A war to prevent a space ship launch. They must have completed at least 1 part with others in progress to declare this.
If the war is declared to stop a ship launch, then we must return all cities at the end of the war. We are free to sell all captured buildings are war reparations.
2) A limited war against a civilization that refuses to acknowledge our cultural superior nation after we break 100K.

We can't play spies until rocketry is discovered unless we are currently at war.

Settlers with escort, workers, single offensive units, and anything at sea must be allowed to pass. A stack of 2 or more land based military units that go 2 squares into our territory may be demanded out. We don't

If stopping a space launch, then we must offer reason peace treaty after the Capital was captured. We may not keep cities from a space race war. Of course, to bad that there culture gets destroyed.

For any other war we must accept peace the second the AI offers reasonable peace. We must try to offer peace ASAP and will end it the second it is "reasonable". "Reasonable" is hard to define exactly, but paying $20 for peace is an example of "reasonable". Giving up a city is not.

We are free to refuse all demands.

We can't raze cities.

Open question - do we allow MPPs? This can be an excuse to get into wars.

Feel free to suggest changes with the key goal of I don't want a game of destroy all AI civs.

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

multiple no, I have won an emporer level once

 

[LKendter]

Sorry, but this is going to be difficult game with the variant restrictions. I need someone with more emperor expeirence.

---------------------------------------

Signed up:
LKendter
Hotrod0823
ToddMarshall
Open Slot
Open Slot

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

If it is mainly a peaceful game in the first few sections, that shouldn't be a problem

 

[ToddMarshall]

Lee, I think MPP's are fine as long as we only fight defensively when triggered vs a civ not building the space ship and not #2 in culture after we break 100k.

 

[Sirp]

Some comments...

A 60% water map is probably the best way to get enough land to zoom to 100k culture. You could also have one or two less than max opponents.

You could play against rivals that do not have cultural traits. The Zulu, Vikings, French, Americans, etc etc. The idea would be that you are the one cultural civilization in a sea of uncultured brutes. While they are busy fighting and worrying about petty things like money, you are developing glorious culture, which will eventually leave them in awe of your greatness.

I think the simplest solution to the war question is to simply allow conflicts after you reach 100k culture.

This is NOT an "I want in" post, the game sounds interesting, but I really don't have enough time. I have done this before as well - a game that T-Hawk sponsored about a year ago was similiar to this, although we could enter into limited wars in that.

-Sirp.

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Sirp
You could play against rivals that do not have cultural traits. The Zulu, Vikings, French, Americans, etc etc. The idea would be that you are the one cultural civilization in a sea of uncultured brutes.

I like this idea except for the vikings.
Any comments from Hotrod0823 or ToddMarshall?

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Lee, I didn't sign up cause I did 100K with the Babs on deity for GOTM 14. I looked over your list of rules and I don't believe I resorted to any of those things to get a pre 1500AD win on a continents map.

 

[ToddMarshall]

Lee, if you want to rip off my idea from the OBC game which was also going to be with Babalon I had the 5 expansionist civs with no cheap culture slated (England, Vikings, Mongols, Americans, Zulu). That should be fine for opponents if we play on standard map. If we go large with 8 opponents, add Rome (man these guys NEVER build culture do they?) China and Carthage.

DO NOT use France. They don't have cheap cultural buildings but the editor flags make them build those normal priced ones like they are going out of style.

Edit: If you want a 9th opponent for a large map, Persia Spain or Korea would be acceptable. Though they all have cheap cultural buildings of one kind, the editor flags make them low priority to build. Even America and China and England are likely to have better culture because they do flag to build at least one sort of cultural building as a high priority.

 

[hotrod0823]

Makes sense to me. I think that it could work and I agree about the Vikes but I still haven't seen the AI use them as effectively as they should (the zerks that is )

 

[Borealis]

If you can get another player and you want me, I'll be in. With a 5-person roster, I should be able to handle the time commitment as GOTM 18 is coming along nicely and two SGs will end soon for me. I have a 100K culture victory on Emperor in Civ v1.29, but not in PTW.

As for the 'razing cities' requirement- does this include auto-razes of no-culture size 1 cities?