LK94 - RaR, 25K blood fest

[sanabas]

Heh, I did some research on that 1350 save and was going to post that both Lee & Doc were wrong, but Doc already has. I got the 12th resource as being useless as well, up to 11 every resource turns one content face happy or one unhappy content. I assume that figure of 11 is hardcoded, but no idea why. If you're going to go above 7 you may as well hardcode it at 15. I knew more than 8 were still effective, I didn't know there was a limit.

And we are importing 3 luxes from the Aztecs, but 1 deal is past 20 turns and can be cancelled. We can either cancel that, or since our territory is smaller, we might be able to play middleman for a profit. We can try and export 2 of our luxes that we're down to our last one of, and we should get more for them than we're paying for imports.

 

[Zavior]

You have to skip me - I have nasty virus I cant get rid of. I'm going to format my computer tomorrow.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Romeothemonk
Zavior
Sanabas (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Remember the variant rules:
I don't want to give cities to the AI just to get more workers.
We must build a city known as sacrifice. That city must build a sacrificial alter, and no other culture buildings.
We may never acquire Monasticism and may not build the GL, Encyclopedia or anything else that puts us at risk of getting Monasticism.
Foreign slaves and workers may NOT perform any tasks except to walk to the sacrificial alter.
All AI cities must be razed to generate sacrifices.

 

[sanabas]

Got this as well. 10 builder/worker turns coming up.

 

[sanabas]

1350: Switch Kawauka to Aqueduct, rush it
Cattaraugus has a full food box and size 15, so I switch to labourer
We don't have expansion room, and won't anytime soon, but we do have a couple of holes in our territory, with tiles that aren't in any city radius, so I wake our 2 colonists, and immediately found Owego.
Cancel our tobacco import from the Aztecs
Sell our only silver to Mali for 300 gold, we're now down to 11 luxes.
Psychology to Persia for 744 gold & 2gpt, I'd rather we get their money than Mali & Aztec conquerors
We also have a lot of cities building Factories, when they don't have the more cost effective production boosters like Town Clocks & Guild Halls. Can't switch many, as it would waste a lot of shields.

1355: Neodakheat founded

1360, 65, 70 - zzz

1375: Aztecs finish off Persia

1380: Research Total War ---> Radio
Pig Town builds League of Nations, I decline elections
Sell Total War to Mali for 5100 gold

1385: Salamanca builds Einstein's Lab

1390: Sal builds public school

1395: Sal builds school of Scribes

1400: Mali builds Wonderland
Research Radio ---> Machine Tools
Sell Radio to Mali for 4750 gold
Sell Total War & Radio to Aztecs for Machine Tools
Start research on Aviation, Salamanca needs to prebuild for Spirit of St Louis, but can't yet.

Aztecs & Mali's MPP has now expired, so our next war can start soon, and should be 2 on 1. Our aztec deals last a couple more turns, our Mali deals last 10 more. I built a lot of science & tax buildings, also built 12 labourers, some artillery, and our first machine gunners & tanks.

 

[meldor]

I see it and it is in the queue...

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Romeothemonk
Zavior
Sanabas
Meldor (currently playing)

 

[LKendter]

We don't have expansion room, and won't anytime soon, but we do have a couple of holes in our territory, with tiles that aren't in any city radius, so I wake our 2 colonists, and immediately found Owego.

1355: Neodakheat founded

Owego only claims 3 new tiles. Goigouen can use all 14 of the land tiles near it and has none to spare. Flip free needs all 5 spare tiles near Owego to hit size 15. Chondote needs a lot of work to get past size 10 using all tiles that are shared by Owego. This is really late in the game to build a city that has a maximum size of 8. With work Neodakheat hits about size 7.

In order to shoehorn these 2 junk cities into our empire we lost shields in well-developed cities. I did a test and confirmed we lost a raw shield in Kahnawake BEFORE any production boasters. Every city then went higher on the rank corruption list probably lost a shield for a city that will never be that large.

Sorry, but totally disagree with you on these cities. I will not push cities with a lot of completed buildings down the rank corruption list to add a size 8 city to the empire with no buildings. I plan to abandon Neodakheat during my turns.

We also have a lot of cities building Factories, when they don't have the more cost effective production boosters like Town Clocks & Guild Halls.

I agree 100% that this is a bad build order. I hope I wasn't guilty of any other these. I always start from forge forward and factory should be the end of the list. It takes the most time and will go a lot faster if the cheaper production help is done first.

 

[sanabas]

Fair enough. I might go do some research on exactly how the corruption model works. I didn't look that closely at the cities around Neodakheat on raw shields, I do know they were building units in the same amount of time both before & after. Was just a case of having 2 colonists we were paying upkeep for, building the extra cities to work more squares looked better than adding the colonists to cities for the same.


Dunno who was building factories, but it seemed they really didn't like guild halls. They're more effective than factories (25% for 200 v 50% for 500), and they give a tax bonus too.

 

[meldor]

1400 AD (0)
Ask the Malinese to move and they declare. Buy the Aztecs in for Tropicla Fruit and 60g. I then sell them Sugar for Tobacco, WM, and 51g.We were sending them Spices and Wool for 26gpt now it is Spices for silks and 11g. I guess we can't do gpt deals with them anymore? Take a scroll through our towns and no one weems to have an issue with going to war. We bomb all the units in our territory. We take out an MKIV guarding a setler and get 120 more culture. We then kill 2 rifles and a Trencher guarding another settler and get 120 more culture. We then snag that Mali worker that was working the same square in our teritory that it was last time I had the game, it goes to the alter. Sign RoP with the Aztecs to make things easier. It also allows us to kill the four trenchers guarding the settler in Aztec territory. It gets us 3 more slaves that die upon the alter. 10 sacrifices and the culture of the altar is still behind that of Salamanca. I then move our defenses to cover our workeres and to have more defnese on the Mali side of our borders. I start a pre-build due the same turn the tech is. due
(I)The Mali attack the defenders and grab a big ol' stack of workers on the mountain. I thought I had enough defenders but three didn't cut it. They also try to take another stack near Ganogeh but fail.

1405 AD (1)
Kill the MKIV and recover our workers. Put six units on top of them this time. I clean up allthe units around and move the two slaves back into our lands.
(I) A couple of counters but nothing serious. Lots of Aztec movement towards the other side. Guess that was were the majority of the Mali troops were waiting.

1410 AD (2)
Two more slaves fall on the altar. clean up all the untis in our lands and gt an elite Cav doing it. Move a stack of defenders, arty and MKIV on top of the mountain next to Dosso. I leave enough arty at home to pound troops moving into our borders.
(I)The Mali lose a couple of MKIV atacking Kahnawake but we get an elite MKIV out of it. They even move more sacrifices into Dosso for us.

1415 AD (3)
WE kill the stray units and then pound Dosso. After killing off all the defneders we raze the city and Wonderland. It nets us 12 more slaves for the altar. I move them back on top of the mountain to be safe until next turn. The only thing left exposed is the rifle that I had to use to kill the arty piece left in the city.
(I)The Mali get a retreat of an MKIV and we lose a Machine Gunner when they attack Kahnawake. That seems to be their favorite target. They leave our rifle only as I put a couple of Machine Gunners on top.

1420 AD (4)
12 slave die on the altar and we go over the 4K mark. We pound the city of Dogondoutchi and move a big stack of MKIV next to it so we can raze it next turn, grab some more slaves and get some furs under our control.
(I) WE lose a rifle and a Machine Gunner.

1425 AD (5)
Dogondoutchi is razed but we only get 9 slaves from it, bummer. Teh next target city is Maraoi which is size 19 and has the olives. We found a city on top of the furs. Move the stack of arty over to Kahnawake in preparation for the attack next turn.
(I) Watch a lot of Aztec units die. We get the Spirit of St Louis.

1430 AD (6)
We bombard and then raze the city of Maraoi (Szie 19) and with it burns Unversal Sufferage. That would have been a good wonder for us and we apply suffering to everyone. This nets us ten more slaves. Speaking of slaves, 9 more hit the altar.
(I)Watch more Aztec units die.

1435 AD (7)
Oops, we accidentally raze Kano and grab 6 workers. The 10 from the last raze go to the altar and we break the 5K culture barrier and I get the culture above that of Salamanca for the first time in my turn. Kill off some stray units. Found a city to get the erst of the olives.
(I)Not much at all.

1440 AD (8)
The city of Jenne is burnt to the ground and with it Copernicus' Observatory but it only yields 6 slaves. I get an MGL cleaning up some stray units. I will use it to rush the War College in a city. BTW, I think I have all of our native workers upgraded.
(I) Not much happens. The Mali seem to be taking it to the Aztecs on the other side of the world. It is a good thing we are ripping out their core.

1445 AD (9)
Our troops begin the march on the city of Belgrade. It was a little selfish of me. Gao was the next big target, but it could have been gotten within my turns.
(I)Not much, we finish the rushed War College.

1450 AD (10)
Oh no, the Taj Mahal burns in Belgrade, but we get eight more slaves to hit the altar. While cleaning up the stray units, I get another MGL. I will leave it unused so that we can rush the Pentagon next turn when our third army is completed.

 

[meldor]

Oh yeah, starting 25K cultrure was 3356, ending culture was 5556. Let the blood flow.

 

[LKendter]

Take a scroll through our towns and no one seems to have an issue with going to war.

We are an absolute monarchy - the ultimate war government in RaR. We will NEVER have a problem with ww.

Kill the MKIV and recover our workers.

Lost workers really suck in RaR as they are demoted back to level 1. Every one of them needs to be upgraded again.


IMPORTANT: If we raze the whole board we WON'T hit 25K at this point. We need to create a nice open area and kill a large stack of settlers trying to fill it back it.


Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Romeothemonk (on deck)
Zavior
Sanabas
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Remember the variant rules:
I don't want to give cities to the AI just to get more workers.
We must build a city known as sacrifice. That city must build a sacrificial alter, and no other culture buildings.
We may never acquire Monasticism and may not build the GL, Encyclopedia or anything else that puts us at risk of getting Monasticism.
Foreign slaves and workers may NOT perform any tasks except to walk to the sacrificial alter.
All AI cities must be razed to generate sacrifices.

 

[meldor]

We are an absolute monarchy - the ultimate war government in RaR. We will NEVER have a problem with ww.

This was in reverence to the loss of luxes due to the declaration. We were getting several from the Mali.

Lost workers really suck in RaR as they are demoted back to level 1. Every one of them needs to be upgraded again.

You missed the statement where I said that all workers had been upgraded.

IMPORTANT: If we raze the whole board we WON'T hit 25K at this point. We need to create a nice open area and kill a large stack of settlers trying to fill it back it.

I only settled two cities. One to claim furs, one to claim olive oil. The rest of the area is open and hopefully the Aztecs will fill it back in.

We should beat up on the Mali until we have razed all cities above size ten on the west side of the map. After the capital jumps to the east side we can make peace and go after the Aztecs. Right now the Aztecs don't have cities that are the same size as those the Mali had.

[EDIT] forgot to chop off the bottom...

 

[LKendter]

We really need to play alternating wars at this point. We should change sides every 20 turns to keep the Mali and the Aztecs even and building settlers to fill in the gaps.

However, I am unable to do that due to a blasted deal with the Aztecs giving them Olive Oil that goes much longer then the rest of the trade deals with the Aztecs.

@ALL - IMO we need to boycott both sides at this point. The ONLY time to makes deals is the turn you sign the alliance. The Aztecs are the number one threat.
I am not happy that I am trapped in a large block of turns where I can only fight the Mali. We need more flexibility.

I wanted to end the war with the Mali on my turn, and set up RTH to hit the Aztecs after a short round of healing. This blasted Olive Oil shipment kills my options.

 

[LKendter]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK94-1500AD.zip


1450 AD
I rush the winter palace in Flip Free. The empire isn't expanding much more, so I will put it near the southern cities. We really don't have an optimal palace location.

I swap a couple of cities to parks. These are excellent pollution reducing buildings. All cities should have parks build if a factory is built.

I swap a tank to guildhall. Tanks are very shield intensive and shouldn't be built until all the cheap production boasters have been built.

I find more than one city building military without a barracks or garrison.
(IT) We catch the Mali trying to plant a spy.


1455 AD
(IT) I abandon Neodakheat via a settler.


1460 AD
I merge the settler into Caughnawaga to get it up in size. This city may approach a tank every turn with careful work after building the sewer.


1465 AD
Our Sloop-of-War kills that annoying barb galley of the coast. I don't want it breaking water tiles in our quality coastal cities.

The gods feast on another 8 Mali workers.


1480 AD

Here is a nice piece of AI worker weed. Put naked workers by our borders.

I find a fourth worker hidden next to these 3. The Mali must want to please the gods.

Gao is razed destroying the Slave Trade wonder and possible more. That puppy gave us 10 workers.


1490 AD
Onnontare is formed. This city claims our 9th luxury of cotton.

14 Mali workers are sacrifice to the gods. We have passed the 6,000 mark for culture.
(IT) We have entered the modern age and start research on Mechanized Warfare.


1500 AD
I cancel the alliance with the Aztecs vs. the Mali.

The Aztecs are clearly the #1 threat now. Beating the Mali down further is counterproductive as we still need a ton of sacrifices. We need the AI to send out a ton of settlers to kill them.

I sign a peace treaty with the Mali. All I can squeeze out of them is $1 and wm.



==========================

Summary:
The next war is with the Aztecs. There is still an open luxury deal.
Two cities I really want to replace are the silks and tea cities. This will get us to 11 natural luxuries and eliminate the need to trade with the AI. RTH can TRY to start this in a couple of turns. At the bare minimum he needs to wait one turn to clear all the workers at the Aztec borders. We have to hope we catch some Aztecs inside our borders and can demand they leave. If not we are stuck waiting another 9 turns due to the blasted olive oil trade.
I will be very annoyed if I see another war with Mali. We need to use the Mali to divert the Aztecs and let us raze a decent amount of their core.

After we get Mechanized Warfare we want to head for Rocketry and the first killer defensive unit of ToW.

We will complete the killer Echelon wonder for free police stations and lower corruption next turn. We still need 2 more skyscrapers for another great wonder.

NOTE: There is a 1-tank army waiting for more tanks to be built to fill it.

Signed up:
LKendter
Romeothemonk (currently playing)
Zavior (on deck)
Sanabas
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Remember the variant rules:
I don't want to give cities to the AI just to get more workers.
We must build a city known as sacrifice. That city must build a sacrificial alter, and no other culture buildings.
We may never acquire Monasticism and may not build the GL, Encyclopedia or anything else that puts us at risk of getting Monasticism.
Foreign slaves and workers may NOT perform any tasks except to walk to the sacrificial alter.
All AI cities must be razed to generate sacrifices.

 

[romeothemonk]

Hmm. I have got this and will try and and play tomorrow or Wed. I will see what I can do on this game. I will try to balance out all the factors.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: Not much to change. Upgrade our lone rifle to trencher. Sell a court in Caughnawaga. Sell court in our capitol. Raise our tech rate. Swap pig town to skyscraper. Actually swap most of our builds to economic infra.
Turn 1: Tada.

Put Sal on temple, but we cant build monastaries, switch to Mt. Rushmore. It will be a prebuild for the National history meuseum. Cancel one lux deal with Aztecs.
Turn 2: We get orange goo, a lot of it. Clearing some jungle and planting forsests. Trying to make our 1st and 2nd ring productive.
Turn 3: Chop some forests so we can work mountains.
Turn 4: No sign of Aztecs. Swap Sal to Empire state building. By some rearranging I can add ~20 spt to our first and 2nd ring cities. Been doing that.
Turn 5: Pollution hits Sal, really hurts us. Caughnawna starts Magellan's done in 3. Hey, why not.
Turn 6: Better tanks come in, start on Commie, just for the Steel Foundry. Sal starts the National history Meuseum. Turn research off for a turn so I can afford our upgrades to Infantry.

Turn 7: Mass upgrade to 2 move, 2 more HP defenders. Yeehaw. Caunewaga builds Magellans, starts Battlefield Medicine. I got the builder bug bad this turnset. Flip Free is now optimized.

Turn 8: The highlight

Turn 9: More worker moves.
Turn 10: Move some stuff around so the next guy is completely set up. I just didn't feel right with a war for 1 turn. All builds are changeable.
We can upgrade all of our artillary, We might need a bunch more gold to do that. I attempted to build some infra in my turns, infra that we greatly needed. Our research is now around 5-6 turns instead of 8-9. Our troops should be well organized.
I apologize for Magellan's but I like wonders, and it really makes our transport with our small marine force a whole lot more potent. Sal should swap to the foundry next turn. Almost all first ring cities are optomized, I worked a lot on 25k, and a few second ring cities as well. We should be really ready to rock now.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads9/LK94-1550AD.SAV

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Romeothemonk
Zavior (currently playing)
Starting the Aztec war ASAP making sure to cancel the last luxury deal first.


Sanabas (on deck)
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.


Remember the variant rules:
I don't want to give cities to the AI just to get more workers.
We must build a city known as sacrifice. That city must build a sacrificial alter, and no other culture buildings.
We may never acquire Monasticism and may not build the GL, Encyclopedia or anything else that puts us at risk of getting Monasticism.
Foreign slaves and workers may NOT perform any tasks except to walk to the sacrificial alter.
All AI cities must be razed to generate sacrifices.

 

[LKendter]

Salamanca can already build 1 turn armor, and 1 turn TOW once we get the tech. RTH - Is there a reason you want Steel Foundry in the capitol? I would rather put it in Caughnawaga where we might pull off 1 turn armor in a second city.

I am not sure if the Steel Foundry justified delaying the ultimate defender of TOW. That is the first unit that can really hold up to armor on defense. With armor and TOW defenders we pretty much will run over the AI.

We want to build up cash to upgrade all of the artillery to heavy artillery. This increases our artillery range from 2 squares to 3 squares along with better bombard and rate of fire.

Looking at the game we may have to delay starting the war with the Aztecs at least a couple of years. We are in such heavy building mode that we don't have enough armor and machine gunners in the queue.

 

[romeothemonk]

Right now the Aztecs cannot really deal with the Mali stuff trickling over the border. We can assualt right now and using the troops we currently have, and have in the Queue, I could decimate the Aztec core with hardly a loss.
The Steel Foundry might make more sense in Caunawaga, I just like to make 1 ubercity. Habit I guess.
If you do that, let the National Monument finish in Sal. We can run over the Aztecs as they appear gassed on the Mali. I am not sure we even need to delay the war. We can upgrade 1 of our 2 stacks of artillary next turn, then use the other. With the research turned off for a turn, we could upgrade the other stack the following turn.
I would get Tow's then I would move to amphib warfare for uber marines.
We can slap the aztecs around really hard now, and we should be able to take both at the same time now.
We also have some trenchers that can be upgraded now.

 

[Zavior]

Got it. I have time to play tomorrow.