LN1 - "Great works are performed, not by strength, but by perseverance."

[haphazard1]

Nice turnset, LN!

Keeping the pressure on Joao, razing Guimaraes, even stealing another worker. Lots to like.

If Oporto is down to just two units, we should definitely make it our next target. It fits well with our planned (long time ago) dot map. We can even use the formerly Portugese workers to improve the (soon to be) formerly Portugese city.

Once you have a chance to post the save, I'll give it a look and try to post some sort of a plan for my turnset.

 

[namliaM]

Nice going LN...
Is that HH or HH??

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Yes, really sounds nice!

And writing the whole text on your cell-phone? Not bad, either

 

[haphazard1]

LN, any chance we can get the save posted?

If it is already sitting somewhere in the thread and I just missed it, I will feel very foolish.

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I think there's no need to feel foolish! LN?

 

[Lush Ninja]

Right I apologize... RL threw me a curveball with the lack of internet (I should have it fixed by the end of the weekend).

So, here I am at starbucks again (goodbye $7 )

Check my last post for screenies and save. (finally, eh? )

Again, sorry for the wait.

 

[haphazard1]

Right I apologize... RL threw me a curveball with the lack of internet (I should have it fixed by the end of the weekend).

So, here I am at starbucks again (goodbye $7 )

Sorry to hear about your lack of internet, LN. And also that you are stuck with the extortionate rates of Starbucks.

Check my last post for screenies and save. (finally, eh? )

Again, sorry for the wait.

Thanks for the screenies -- makes many things much clearer.

I've got the save, and will take a look at it over the next couple hours. I will try to post a plan for my turnset, and then plan to play about 24 hours from now. This should give everyone time to tell me how wrong my plan is.

 

[haphazard1]

OK, I've taken a look at the save. A few thoughts:

1) Some Egyptian culture is visible from the globe view, to the southeast of Joao. We need to get someone down there to explore. Also, we should sign open borders with Hatty, the founder of Hinduism.

2) Best unit for this is our old friend Cougar Clubber, who is rotting away garrisoning Washington. We should build an archer for garrison, and send CC and his woodsman II off through the jungles to explore further.

3) We somehow have a trade link to Sitting Bull, even though we don't know where he is. (He thus has Sailing.) Unfortunately, he has nothing to trade right now, but we should keep an eye on him for opportunities. He would like one of our surplus clams, and we could use any resource we don't already have.

4) Joao has another city, Coimbro. From the odd point of culture sticking out NE of Lisbon, Coimbro must be to the north, probably on one of the flood plains (exactly as namliaM predicted).

5) Oporto has walls...on a hill...with a CG I archer. We need cats to take this town, unless we're willing to sacrifice 5-7 axes (if 2 archers) or 10+ (if 3).

6) Research -- we have a good supply of gold, and are running +1 gpt at 70%. I think we should set research at that level and go for Construction, by way of Masonry. This gives Masonry in 3, Construction in about 20.

7) We are reaching the happy cap in Washington and New York, although fading whip unhappiness will help a little bit more. We should take 3 turns and research Mysticism for our charismatic monuments. It is a slight delay, but we need the happiness badly. I think we should fit it in after Masonry.

8) We are paying unit maintenance and supply now, but our economy is strong (see #7 above). We should keep building axes in Washington, not whipping or chopping for now. (We are running 13 hammers/turn, so 3 turn axes.) Save the forests for later, and use our workers to improve tiles and build roads. We will need the axes to finish Portugal, once we have a few cats to take down defenses.

9) Portugal -- heal our wounded axes from the razing of Guimaraes. Move pillaging axes north past Lisbon to Coimbro. Pillage, razing the city if possible. Check the eastern side of Lisbon to make sure there is nothing tasty there to pillage.

10) Settlers. I really wish we could build a settler and found at P. Not to mention that nice site across the water -- sheep, rice, and horses. Oh well...later.

11) Cities -- Washington continues to build axes, no whip or chop. It takes the clams back from New York (not being used) in place of the rice for +2 commerce. When it grows (5 turns, just as whip unhappy fades) it will be maxed out. Work the plains forest for more hammers, slow growth. (Alternate idea - put new citizen to work as a scientist.)

New York starts barracks, running one scientist. Grows in 1 turn, assign second scientist. Will still have +2 food, but whip unhappy should fade before next growth.

12) Workers

New York worker finishes road on pigs (health), then cottages plains tile. (Will give city tile with extra hammer, commerce.)

Recent steal continues careful sneaking back to our territory, then works on roads around future city at P. Other worker here same.

Washington worker adds roads around Washington (to hills, forests) to speed future actions. We could cottage (or farm) some of the grassland -- there is not a lot else to do with it.

13) Religion -- we don't have any, and we don't have trade connections to anyone who does. We can only hope someone sends us a missionary -- we should be so fortunate.

14) Espionage -- we are splitting points evenly among the four civs we know. Not much else to do here, really.

15) Demos -- very mixed. We're dead last in land (Hatty having 3x ours!), and despite our axes we're only fifth in power. We're 2nd in GNP and strong in manufacturing and food. Worrisome, Joao has more manufacturing than we do -- he must have another mine or two we can not see, in addition to the plains hill NE of Lisbon. We must get our axes to the east side of Lisbon and find out what is there.

Sitting Bull recently took a BIG leap in power -- iron working, probably. Once we have construction, I think we must go for Alphabet and start trading techs.

16) Great people -- we're running a scientist in New York, and will add a second next turn with city growth. We should have the GS right at the end of my turnset -- what do we want to do with him? His bulb preferences would be Alphabet and then Aesthetics, both fairly cheap. I think an Academy is the way to go, but which city? With the second scientist, New York is probably the better bet, having slightly more beakers/turn and all future tiles being water with more commerce.

Great General -- we are at 22/30, so will probably not get one during my turn set unless more fighting occurs than I expect. But we will get one soon. We could settle him as an instructor in Washington (my preference, getting 2 promo units in future), or burn him for XP to create some super city attackers for use against Joao. We could boost 4 axes from 3 XP to 8 XP, getting 3 promotions each. Maybe include a cat or two for massively boosted siege weapons? We should plan ahead, although just when we get the GG may determine how we use him.

OK, I think I've rambled on MORE than enough. Thoughts, ideas, anything I've overlooked? I'll plan to play about 24 hours from now, unless there is big disagreement.

 

[haphazard1]

An additional item to think about - who do we want to be friends with?

Joao is going to die, so we don't care how much he dislikes us.

Sitting Bull appears to be on another land mass, although we have trade links to him so has Sailing and could appear with a settler at any time to steal "our" territory. He has no religion, and knows us and Joao.

HC founded Buddhism, while Hatty founded Hinduism. Both appear to be on our land mass, and they know one another. They are almost certainly going to end up enemies, and will be asking us to cancel deals with the other.

I think we will need to pick one or the other to be friends with, and refuse deals with the other. We can wait for the demand, but then we get a penalty with the civ we cancel with; if we cancel the deal ourselves there will be no penalty. So we should decide who will be our friend, and cancel OB with the other now to avoid trouble.

We are not sure where HC is located (east of Joao somewhere?), but we know Hatty has a city to the SE of Joao and us. She is probably closer to us, has more land and is #1 in score. I think we should befriend Hatty, which means OB with her and cancelling our OB deal with HC.

We could also wait to see which religion (if either) spreads to us, and let that decide who our friend will be.

What does the team think on this?

 

[haphazard1]

Work commitments prevented me from getting to the turnset tonight. But since there has been no input from the rest of the team, it seems best to hold off and play about 24 hours from now.

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I planned on taking a look at the save yesterday evening, but I didn't get around to it ... and as I'm at work now mischief, I only have a few comments based on the ideas you posted ...

5) Oporto has walls...on a hill...with a CG I archer. We need cats to take this town, unless we're willing to sacrifice 5-7 axes (if 2 archers) or 10+ (if 3).

Ouch ... no way I would sacrifice that many units that early in the game ... if we can take/raze his other cities, we could leave Oporto, and 'only' pillage his mine and pasture and what else he has/will have ... and by the time we get Cats, take it out quite easy ...

7) We are reaching the happy cap in Washington and New York, although fading whip unhappiness will help a little bit more. We should take 3 turns and research Mysticism for our charismatic monuments. It is a slight delay, but we need the happiness badly. I think we should fit it in after Masonry.

Once the unhappiness fades, we can again, thus providing faster buildings/units, and keeping our people 'happy'
According to 8), we get Axes every 3 turns ... that's OK ... we could use the whip for buildings ... not sure though, what useful buildings are available, but not built yet?!

11) Cities -- Washington continues to build axes, no whip or chop. It takes the clams back from New York (not being used) in place of the rice for +2 commerce. When it grows (5 turns, just as whip unhappy fades) it will be maxed out. Work the plains forest for more hammers, slow growth. (Alternate idea - put new citizen to work as a scientist.)

New York starts barracks, running one scientist. Grows in 1 turn, assign second scientist. Will still have +2 food, but whip unhappy should fade before next growth.

As we're able to run 2 scientists in New York shortly, I would max out in Washington.

15) Demos -- very mixed. We're dead last in land (Hatty having 3x ours!), and despite our axes we're only fifth in power.

No wonder we're last in land ... we only have 2 cities atm, whereas most AIs will have 3 or 4, probably. And both cities have a lot of water tiles ... that said, 3 land-locked cities would be enough for Hatty to have 3x our land.

Fifth in power? Hmmm, because we don't know HBR an IW

Great General [...] We could settle him as an instructor in Washington (my preference, getting 2 promo units in future), or burn him for XP to create some super city attackers for use against Joao. We could boost 4 axes from 3 XP to 8 XP, getting 3 promotions each. Maybe include a cat or two [...]

I second your preference ... put him as an instructor in Washington ... it will build a lot of units in this game, and that's the best use for the 1st GG.

I'm not very fond of the idea of boosting 4 units with the 1st GG. On the other hand, 4 CR3-Axes would be very nice and could take out those CG1-Archers on a hill ... but I would certainly not include Cats!

An additional item to think about - who do we want to be friends with?

Joao -- who is Joao?; is he still around?

Sitting Bull can be our friend, at least in the beginning. Even if he steals 'our' city-site ... and as long as Joao is alive, and later if he knows HC and Hatty, he should be willing to trade with us, and I see no reason not to do that ...

Hatty or HC ... do we have to choose already? How are their relations one to the other ... if they aren't too negative already because of religious differences, we could keep those OB with both, and scout their lands, as they probably won't come asking to cancel any deals we have. This way, we could also use Religion-spread to choose our friend later!
If they are already at -3 or -4, we should pick one now ... I would then agree on choosing Hatty as our friend, as she's n°1, and could offer us the most deals, probably ...

 

[toug]

I think there's still a lot of time left before we are able to decide how we want to handle diplomacy. Sitting Bull is pretty easy to keep happy... it'll be interesting to see how we handle the Hindu/Buddhist relations though.

Of the 4 civs I'm glad Jao is the one we are taking out first. The rest are all manageable to have around.

 

[haphazard1]

Ouch ... no way I would sacrifice that many units that early in the game ... if we can take/raze his other cities, we could leave Oporto, and 'only' pillage his mine and pasture and what else he has/will have ... and by the time we get Cats, take it out quite easy ...

I agree that it would be too painful, until we can get cats.

It is very frustrating, though. Joao only has two units in Oporto, one of them a sword which our axes could deal with, despite the defense. But that archer is too tough.... I will try to keep him from moving the other archer (currently between Lisbon and Oporto) back into the city. I'll kill it on open ground if I can.

Once the unhappiness fades, we can again, thus providing faster buildings/units, and keeping our people 'happy'
According to 8), we get Axes every 3 turns ... that's OK ... we could use the whip for buildings ... not sure though, what useful buildings are available, but not built yet?!

I believe Washington still needs a Granary. Masonry will open up walls, which as protective we get cheap. But I don't think we should spend hammers on walls unless we have an emergency. I do worry about Sitting Bull declaring and showing up next to New York or Washington with a couple galleys of troops. We only have one warrior in each city! New York does have an axe nearby, but a surprise attack could take the city easily right now.

I am planning to build an archer for Washington garrison, to free Woodsman II Cougar Clubber to go visit Hatty and explore. Maybe I should also slip in an archer for New York? Not sure what I would do with the warrior.

As for keeping our cities happy with the whip, certainly we can do that. But larger cities are more productive cities, if we can keep the people happy. More hammers, more commerce, more specialists.

As we're able to run 2 scientists in New York shortly, I would max out in Washington.

I agree. I don't usually specialize my cities until I have a couple more than two. though.

No wonder we're last in land ... we only have 2 cities atm, whereas most AIs will have 3 or 4, probably. And both cities have a lot of water tiles ... that said, 3 land-locked cities would be enough for Hatty to have 3x our land.

It's true New York doesn't contribute much to our land figure, and Washington only some. But we really need to expand, and soon. Hopefully we can add Lisbon and Oporto. But once Joao is finished, we need to pump out several settlers rapidly. We have 4 workers (thanks, Joao!), so we can easily improve a couple more cities once we have them.

Fifth in power? Hmmm, because we don't know HBR an IW

I think Iron Working is definitely part of it -- equal to 3+ axes. Pop also contributes to power, and we have fewer cities/people.

I second your preference ... put him as an instructor in Washington ... it will build a lot of units in this game, and that's the best use for the 1st GG.

I'm not very fond of the idea of boosting 4 units with the 1st GG. On the other hand, 4 CR3-Axes would be very nice and could take out those CG1-Archers on a hill ... but I would certainly not include Cats!

I was thinking of a super-raider cat, or to get an accuracy cat. Bombing down walled cities 4% at a time is a LONG process.

I definitely favor settling the first GG as an instructor. We don't have one yet, but we will before Joao is finished.

Joao -- who is Joao?; is he still around?

The man in the very large hat is irritating that way.

Sitting Bull can be our friend, at least in the beginning. Even if he steals 'our' city-site ... and as long as Joao is alive, and later if he knows HC and Hatty, he should be willing to trade with us, and I see no reason not to do that ...

I'm wondering how he knows Joao. We only saw SB's unit across the water from Washington, and Joao certainly hasn't been in Washington. Maybe that archer he had south of New York? Maybe I can send the other warrior down that coast line, if I build an archer for New York garrison duty.

I agree that SB should be OK for trade, as long as he does not get a religion to irritate Hatty or HC. SB may also know other civs we are not aware of. If we get lucky, he will come up with a useful resource to trade for our clams.

Hatty or HC ... do we have to choose already? How are their relations one to the other ... if they aren't too negative already because of religious differences, we could keep those OB with both, and scout their lands, as they probably won't come asking to cancel any deals we have. This way, we could also use Religion-spread to choose our friend later!
If they are already at -3 or -4, we should pick one now ... I would then agree on choosing Hatty as our friend, as she's n°1, and could offer us the most deals, probably ...

I will check their relations before doing anything. If they are only cautious, I will keep OB with both. But if they are getting testy with one another, I will stick with Hatty as the closer, bigger civ.

I think there's still a lot of time left before we are able to decide how we want to handle diplomacy. Sitting Bull is pretty easy to keep happy... it'll be interesting to see how we handle the Hindu/Buddhist relations though.

Of the 4 civs I'm glad Jao is the one we are taking out first. The rest are all manageable to have around.

I agree. Joao is not a good neighbor. We are struggling right now because of the resources we are investing in units rather than growth, but I think it will pay off. We would only have to fight Joao later, when he would have been even stronger and more spread out.

Thanks for the comments! I will hopefully play in about 6 hours, so feel free to offer more advice and ideas.

 

[Winth]

I disagree that Joao was the only troubling opponent.

Huayna Capac has a great trait combination for growth.
Sitting Bull, at the more subtle side of things, grabs so much land that he can hardly afford it and falls backward in technology hopelessly; nevertheless, he is VERY hard to even bit on him with all his protective stuff and Dog Soldiers. He can be just like a big pile of desert that you can't remove until you finally out-tech him. Not my favourite neighbor.
Hatshepsut? She's a peacenik and she knows how to tech well.

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I just took a short look on the save ... but I don't have much to add ...

We cannot really use the whip in our cities; Washington's Axe has just been whipped, and New York has been whipped 2 turns ago

Economy is really healthy, we can run @80%, loosing only 2 per turn.

As for techs, I agree on researching Mysticism ... we could even put it before Masonry, to increase our happiness with those rather cheap monuments, and then beeline to Construction!

Our units should move to Lisbon, see what they can do there ... probably only pillaging ... and move on to his new city, that we should be able to raze ...

New units could pass by Oporto, making sure that the copper and pigs stay unimproved ...

And for our diplomatic actions ...HC and Hatty are already -3 one to the other ... +1 for peace, and -4 for religious differences ... we don't have OB with Hatty yet, and getting them could make HC unhappy, as he should consider Hatty his worst enemy ...
An idea would be to get CC scouting, to take a picture of HC's land, then cancel those OB and get them with Hatty, so CC can scout her lands as well.

As for their relations towards us, HC and SB are +2, Hatty +1 ... only Big-Hat is furious for some reason

As for your concerns about SB attacking our unprotected cities, I think you're a bit too scared there. Don't believe he'll attack us before he has settled his continent!
But having at least Archers to defend our cities still is something we should consider, just to make sure ... there could also always be a Barbarian uprising

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I believe Washington still needs a Granary. Masonry will open up walls, which as protective we get cheap. But I don't think we should spend hammers on walls unless we have an emergency.

I completely agree, no need to build walls! Who would dare to attack our cities?

As for keeping our cities happy with the whip, certainly we can do that. But larger cities are more productive cities, if we can keep the people happy. More hammers, more commerce, more specialists.

I agree. I don't usually specialize my cities until I have a couple more than two. though.

True; but at the moment, our cities have plenty of food, and not that much production (even if Washington has its mine). By always whipping 2pop, just before growing, we get the hammers we need to get rid of Joao, and it only 'costs' us 1 more tile that's not worked. And as there are no cottages, I really don't see a problem with that

And running 2 scientist in 1 city, and working mostly hammers in the 2nd city; I wouldn't really call that 'specializing cities'

I was thinking of a super-raider cat, or to get an accuracy cat. Bombing down walled cities 4% at a time is a LONG process.

True, but having 1 accuracy-cat won't make it that much faster!

I agree that SB should be OK for trade, as long as he does not get a religion to irritate Hatty or HC. SB may also know other civs we are not aware of. If we get lucky, he will come up with a useful resource to trade for our clams.

Should he get a religion, we can always choose to befriend the 2 civs that share their religion, and making the other one our first target!

I will check their relations before doing anything. If they are only cautious, I will keep OB with both. But if they are getting testy with one another, I will stick with Hatty as the closer, bigger civ.

As said in my post above, they are at -3 towards each other, making them 'annoyed'. And we don't have OB with Hatty yet!

I will hopefully play in about 6 hours, so feel free to offer more advice and ideas.

I offer you a 'Good Luck'!

 

[haphazard1]

As for techs, I agree on researching Mysticism ... we could even put it before Masonry, to increase our happiness with those rather cheap monuments, and then beeline to Construction!

I will fit Mysticism in, either immediately or after Masonry.

Our units should move to Lisbon, see what they can do there ... probably only pillaging ... and move on to his new city, that we should be able to raze ...

New units could pass by Oporto, making sure that the copper and pigs stay unimproved ...

Several badly wounded axes to heal first. I'll get some moving to pillage Lisbon and hit Coimbro. And I'm hoping to get rid of that archer sitting on the hill between Lisbon and Oporto, if he'll step out into the clear.

And for our diplomatic actions ...HC and Hatty are already -3 one to the other ... +1 for peace, and -4 for religious differences ... we don't have OB with Hatty yet, and getting them could make HC unhappy, as he should consider Hatty his worst enemy ...
An idea would be to get CC scouting, to take a picture of HC's land, then cancel those OB and get them with Hatty, so CC can scout her lands as well.

Do we know where HC is, though? We do know Hatty's approximate location, from the global culture view.

As for their relations towards us, HC and SB are +2, Hatty +1 ... only Big-Hat is furious for some reason

Steal a few workers, raze a city...he is touchy about the smallest things, isn't he?

As for your concerns about SB attacking our unprotected cities, I think you're a bit too scared there. Don't believe he'll attack us before he has settled his continent!
But having at least Archers to defend our cities still is something we should consider, just to make sure ... there could also always be a Barbarian uprising

I've had bad fortune more than once when my power rating was low, and an AI decided I made a tasty target of opportunity. I agree that SB is not a big threat for this, usually.

I disagree that Joao was the only troubling opponent.

Huayna Capac has a great trait combination for growth.
Sitting Bull, at the more subtle side of things, grabs so much land that he can hardly afford it and falls backward in technology hopelessly; nevertheless, he is VERY hard to even bit on him with all his protective stuff and Dog Soldiers. He can be just like a big pile of desert that you can't remove until you finally out-tech him. Not my favourite neighbor.
Hatshepsut? She's a peacenik and she knows how to tech well.

Winth, you're totally correct that all of the AIs we have met can make for tough competitors, especially on Monarch. But all of HC, SB, and Hatty can be worked with, if you avoid getting religious differences. With shared religion, HC and Hatty can make good trading partners.

We are going to have to stake our claim to some land very soon, though.

I completely agree, no need to build walls! Who would dare to attack our cities?

Ummm...can I make a list?

True; but at the moment, our cities have plenty of food, and not that much production (even if Washington has its mine). By always whipping 2pop, just before growing, we get the hammers we need to get rid of Joao, and it only 'costs' us 1 more tile that's not worked. And as there are no cottages, I really don't see a problem with that

We definitely have more food than we do anything else. But a little more happiness will be helpful, even if we just end up using it to manage whip anger.

And running 2 scientist in 1 city, and working mostly hammers in the 2nd city; I wouldn't really call that 'specializing cities'

Well, it's a start.

As said in my post above, they are at -3 towards each other, making them 'annoyed'. And we don't have OB with Hatty yet!

I will hold off on the OB with Hatty until we need it to explore further. Maybe something will happen by then to affect our decision.

I offer you a 'Good Luck'!

Thanks! Setting off to play the turnset....

 

[haphazard1]

OK, turnset complete. I only played 9, since we have a decision to make.

T85 (inherited turn)
- Set research to Mysticism and boosted slider to 80%. 2 turns. Shifted the clams to Washington (NYC not using them) instead of rice for +2 commerce.

T86
- Lots of axes healing from sack of Guimaraes and west of Oporto. Send one healthy axe north towards Lisbon to find Joao is working on his gold. I would chase this worker off his tasks repeatedly.
- Washington finishes axe, starts archer to free CC to explore.

T87
- Mysticism completed! Set research back to Masonry.
- Washington completes archer, starts monument. CC heads out SE to check out Hatty. Her lands, I mean.
- A Joao archer appears out of the jungle SW of Oporto -- must have been out exploring.
- Our axe kills the CG1 archer heading to Oporto (94% odds), but is badly hurt (1.3/5). I fear he will be killed by the sword in Oporto. (This move was a calculated risk, to prevent more archers in the walled hill city. I had hoped with 94% odds to escape with minimal damage and hold off the sword....)

T88
- Sword kills our wounded axe. Worse, Joao gets a Great General in Lisbon!
- Our axes west of Oporto kill the archer from the jungle, gaining a promotion. The other covers the wounded axe.
- Our roaming axe can see into Lisbon, which has 4 archers! Only 1 promo each, and no GG -- Joao must have settled him. Good for us once we own Lisbon.

T89
- We meet a nearly naked man who really likes gold:

Pacal is Hindu, and his screen indicates he has 4 cities in addition to his capital! His scout came from the SE of Joao, by the ruins of Guimaraes.

- Two Hindu missionaries from Hatty approach Joao from SE.
- Masonry finishes. Set research to Construction for cats and the death of Joao. About 14 turns at breakeven.
- Washington finishes monument (will grow in 1 turn, staying happy), starts archer for New York to free the axe guarding it.

T90
- A third Hindu missionary from Hatty appears. Looks like Hinduism is the way of the future.
- Washington grows to size 7, works the plains forest for 15 hammers/turn.
- Roaming axe by Lisbon moves to plains hill to pillage mine, sees Joao axe + archer coming from north. With four archers in Lisbon, he fears for his life.

T91
- Our axe is not attacked, and pillages the mine for 6 gold.
- Great Lighthouse BIFL
- Joao converts to Hinduism (Lisbon was converted IBT). He will become closer to Pacal and Hatty, which could be trouble for us. Hopefully Joao won't be around too much longer.
- Washington finishes archer for NYC, starts axe

T92
- Various axes which have healed are all moving around Lisbon, looking for pillage opportunites and generally heading north towards Coimbro.

T93
- Washington finishes axe, starts axe
- More axe shifting, trying to avoid giving Joao's axe a good shot at our guys.

T94
- Werner Heisenberg is born in New York, bringing great uncertainty to our civilization.
- Sign open borders with Pacal and Hatty, cancel OB with HC. With Hatty sending out missionaries and three civs already Hindu, I think our choice of friends is clear. And we need OB so she will send us a couple missionaries.
- Axes around Lisbon moving north. Next turn can move pairs to cows and flood plain farm to pillage, then on to Coimbro.

I ended my turnset here (1 turn short) so we can decide what to do with the Great Scientist. Everything else has been done/moved, only the GS remains.

I think we want an academy -- he will bulb Alphabet, which is only about 14 turns at breakeven. While Alphabet would be nice, so we can start trading techs, I don't think this is worth spending the GS on. But where do we want the academy?

Washington has 17 base science, New York has 15. (Running 100% science, see below.) Each city has happy cap to grow 1, and New York does not have a monument yet. If New York takes back the clams (Washington works rice in their place for same food), then it becomes Washington 15 base beakers, New York 17. I think we should put the academy in New York. But maybe Washington is the better long term bet, even though we are using it for production right now.

Other thoughts:

- I am running binary science (100% or 0%), keeping our cash above 200. With our two libraries, this "earns" us an extra 3 beakers per turn which are otherwise lost to rounding when running at breakeven (about 60% right now). I think we should keep this up. (Note that this is another argument for the academy in New York, as the scientists there produce beakers even during 0% turns.)

- I was not able to achieve much military-wise this set: killed two archers, lost one axe, pillaged one mine. But we are in position to pillage cows and farm turn after next, then hit Coimbro with 6 axes in about 2 more turns. It is on flat ground with no culture defenses, and only 2 archers.

- Our units inside Joao's borders have kept him building military. He now has 6 (!) archers in Lisbon, 2 in Coimbro, 1 + a sword in Oporto, and 1 axe and 1 archer moving towards Oporto. These guys came from the north, and we do not really have anything in position to stop them short of Oporto. There is one axe in between, pillaging the roads to slow Joao's movement, but I don't think we want to fight there. Even if our axe beats Joao's, that sword will move out and mop him up.

I think we should leave Oporto alone for now, and instead strike at Coimbro and then Lisbon. They are easier (Coimbro) and more valuable (Lisbon) anyway. To expedite this, I have been building a road to the north towards the stone, to speed our axes and (soon!) cats. We will need to keep axes available west of Oporto in case he tries something with the sword and axe; there are two there now and we can easily send more from Washington as they are built. Our guys around Lisbon and already on the stone road should be enough to take Coimbro if it is not reinforced, and maybe even if it is.

- Pacal has an archer roaming around by New York a couple turns back, and Sitting Bull has one across the water. So far they have not met, though. SB know us and Joao; everyone else knows everyone but SB.

- New York has almost finished a barracks. I am not sure this was the best choice, but we need military power right now to finish Joao. Both New York and Washington need granaries BADLY, given that we are likely to whip them quite a bit more. And New York needs a monument. Units before buildings for now, though, especially once Construction is done.

- Despite our unit support costs, I think we pump military steadily until Joao is done. We should have enough to take Coimbro before cats, then focus on Lisbon, and finally work around the circle to Oporto. We should keep Lisbon and Oporto, and rapidly get settlers for P and something by the stone. One west of Coimbro would get stone, fish, and three flood plains.

- CC is right at the border of Hatty's culture. With the OB signed, let's find out what she has. Her trade screen only indicated two cities other than her capital.

- We have the warrior from New York free to do something, if we want. Maybe he should fortify on the gold in case of barbs? We could always emergency upgrade him to an axe, as long as we keep our gold above 200 or so.

- Random events are on. The Mayans and Hatty got a "joyous wedding" event and have an extra +1 relations with each other. So keep the treasury at a decent level in case of negative events we need to buy off.

OK, a couple screenies from the current turn (T94, 525 BC):

Heisenberg and our lands. Note the stone road to the north. I spent most of the worker turns roading around future city site P and the stone road. Our forests and hills are all quickly accessible. I could have built cottages at Washington, but we're not likely to work them soon (if ever, as an SE).

Here is the Lisbon and Coimbro area. Sorry for no highlights -- can anyone tell me how to get screenshots where the current pop-up text is shown? I am just using PrintScreen to grab the image, there's probably a better way.

NamliaM, you're up!

The save:

View attachment LN1 BC-0525.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[ChrisFromLux]

First of all, a nice, solid turnset

and no GG -- Joao must have settled him. Good for us once we own Lisbon.

I knew he was a nice man

Sign open borders with Pacal and Hatty, cancel OB with HC. With Hatty sending out missionaries and three civs already Hindu, I think our choice of friends is clear. And we need OB so she will send us a couple missionaries.

Good move. And we didn't get negative points with HC for trading with his worst opponent! Perfect!

I think we want an academy -- he will bulb Alphabet, which is only about 14 turns at breakeven. While Alphabet would be nice, so we can start trading techs, I don't think this is worth spending the GS on.

Agree! It's really not worth using GPeople to bulb early techs. Always better to settle them, or use their special abilities IMHO. So I would also use him to build an Academy!

But where do we want the academy?

Washington has 17 base science, New York has 15. [...] If New York takes back the clams (Washington works rice in their place for same food), then it becomes Washington 15 base beakers, New York 17. I think we should put the academy in New York. But maybe Washington is the better long term bet, even though we are using it for production right now.

I would also put this Academy in New York. They will continue running 2 scientists, who will profit from the Academy as well, and we can still use the 2nd Scientist we'll get for another Academy in Washington!?

- I was not able to achieve much military-wise this set: killed two archers, lost one axe, pillaged one mine. But we are in position to pillage cows and farm turn after next, then hit Coimbro with 6 axes in about 2 more turns. It is on flat ground with no culture defenses, and only 2 archers.

There wasn't much more possible! We will need to wait for Cats to achieve more military success!

These 2 Archers in Coimbra shouldn't stand a chance against our Axes, once they have reached it. But for his other 2 cities, we will have to wait for Cats.

I think we should leave Oporto alone for now, and instead strike at Coimbro and then Lisbon. They are easier (Coimbro) and more valuable (Lisbon) anyway.

Agreed, but we will have to keep an eye on Oporto's copper, and make sure it isn't reconnected! Meeting more Axes in his cities should be prevented!

To expedite this, I have been building a road to the north towards the stone, to speed our axes and (soon!) cats.

- Despite our unit support costs, I think we pump military steadily until Joao is done. We should have enough to take Coimbro before cats, then focus on Lisbon, and finally work around the circle to Oporto. We should keep Lisbon and Oporto, and rapidly get settlers for P and something by the stone. One west of Coimbro would get stone, fish, and three flood plains.

We NEED more troops to take out Joao (Lisbon and Oporto). Of course, we need Cats, once they are available, but we also need more Axes!

Agree on keeping Lisbon and Oporto, they perfectly fit into our dot-map we made some weeks ago, and they are nicely placed!
I also agree on settling P and Stone-city, once it's clear that Joao is defeated.

Our plans for founding a foot-hold-city on SB's continent/island seem to come too late, though. His culture is already visible N of the rice, and it won't take long 'til SB settles 'our' city near sheep and horses

And once we have IW, and our workers start clearing jungle, there are at least two nice spots in the S. One SE of New York, near Cow and Banana, and another one near Rice/Sugar/Spices, but that's for later ...

- CC is right at the border of Hatty's culture. With the OB signed, let's find out what she has. Her trade screen only indicated two cities other than her capital.

Hmmm, that's surprising! Probably blocked off by HC and/or Pacal

I could have built cottages at Washington, but we're not likely to work them soon (if ever, as an SE).

I think we haven't decided whether we're 'allowed' to build cottages or not. For me, as we're going for a SE, I think it's good you didn't build cottages!
And that's road very useful!

Sorry for no highlights -- can anyone tell me how to get screenshots where the current pop-up text is shown? I am just using PrintScreen to grab the image, there's probably a better way.

What do you call 'the current pop-up text'? The information shown in the left corner when hoovering your mouse-pointer over a city/unit/tile?? If it's that, simply take the Screenshot while you're hoovering, and the text will be included in the image! That's what I do as well.

But I guess you know that; so I probably misunderstood your question?!?




And SB must know someone else. We have more Espionage points with him than he has with us. Except if he puts more points into soon-to-be-dead Joao ??? But that would surprise. I bet that SB is on a small continent, which he shares with that last, unknown Civilization.

 

[namliaM]

I have some catching up to do... Will do so tomorrow and post some ideas.