Lonely start -- need advice

[TBox]

Generally I'm a peacemonger, but I've an unusual situation.

BtS, Ghandi, Noble, continents, raging barbarians, choose religion, otherwise standard settings. I'm alone with Justinian on one continent. Without realizing what was happening, we've ended up with three religions on this continent. Which means the other continent has five civs and one religion to tide them over until philosophy, theology, and divine right.

I'm behind on cottages because the barbarians has forced me to whip barracks and archers, but I'm finally getting ahead of them and am about to start whipping some workers.

Also without realizing it (Just following the good terrain), I've bottled Justinian into a corner of the continent. He's different religion from me. A constrained diff religion Justinian means war. His position means I'm going to overwhelm him economically. So, should I vassalize him or crush him? Cuz I'm not trying to stay at peace with the guy.

And what do I do after that? I'm thinking in research, shoot for caravels, reach The Five before they reach me. Before that happens, cover my continent with my cultural borders, go priest economy to enshrine my religions, spread all three religions to supplement my economy, then run a hybrid economy, cuz I have a city with 8 flood plains that has room for specialists and cottages, and decent health resources. I don't know what to do when the religious wars start though. I think I definitely need to dodge religion techs for a while, which hurts for liberalism.

It's possible I'm going to get at least one "It's only Noble" comment, so, fair warning: I suck.

 

[brades]

There are a few things to consider. One, if you eliminate him too early you will be left with no trading partners until you meet the other continent, since they are all together they may have a huge tech lead over you by the time you meet them. Second, if he has any techs you don't you should at least try and get them from him before you go on a rampage. Eventually you should control your continent, so eliminating justinian is the best route because even as him as your vassal he will still try and commit espionage against you. If you are all alone, minimal espionage. I think the point you are at right now you should get some workers going and build your economy, switch religons to Justinians, trade for a while, and then wipe him out about the time you will start finding the other civs.

 

[JackRules]

Join Date:2002
Posts: 73
Level: Noble

TBox, you might be my long-lost brother!

I would take his religion and spread yours to him. Make nice to help the tech situation, and then take him out when you meet the other continent. Good luck!

 

[Hesterate]

Sounds like you're in a prime position for a cultural win. Make sure you have enough room for nine cities (so you can max out cathedrals in your three cultural cities).

I'd also try getting to liberalism quickly or building the wonder that allows you to change religious civics so that you can adopt free religion when you finally make contact with everyone else. When you first make contact, don't sign open borders agreements right away--scout out the civs and ask them about each other (see which civs don't like each other). If there are one or two disliked civs, avoid trading with them and the majority of civs will generally like you (especially if you're running free religion)

 

[oyzar]

Just kill him. There is nothing helping AI's alone on your continent as they won't help you anything and are hence of better off dead... AI's won't trade if they are alone with you...

 

[CivMcNut]

I play on Monarch for what it's worth, and being stuck in isolation will get you behind in tech every time if you leave tech trading on. I'm so much of a warmonger though, I always want to wipe out who's next to me despite it putting me behind. Once you start meeting new people though, you can hopefully strike a few deals that will get you right back in the tech race.

On Noble you might be better off just wiping him out and seeing if you can out tech the AIs, as they are playing on a level field with you.

 

[Way_Traveler]

The religion thing makes this an extremely problematic scenario. If tech trading is on, isolated starts are greatly helped winnable if the other continent is at war. With them all having one religion... ouch.

I really think you should shoot for a diplomatic victory.

The good news is that you're spiritual. You're going to be able to leverage that to your advantage:

My proposal: Do everything you can to get as many religions as possible spread to your cities. OR is great for this. Since you're going to be peace-mongering for a spell, you don't need theocracy anyway. Get optics as soon as reasonably possible, and meet all the other civs. The moment you meet your first non-Justinian civ, switch to no state religion. You're going to have to rely on lots of temples to keep your citizens happy, instead of having one of your state religions. By avoiding the "Heathen religion" modifiers, you should be able to sign open borders agreements and keep your rivals at at least cautious. As soon as astronomy is online, pop cities on your border and pray that one of them gets the foreign religion via natural spread; you probably can't count on the AI sending you a missionary. If at all possible, DON'T BUILD YOUR OWN SHRINES; they help the spread of that religion, which you don't want. You may want to put any great prophets on ice.

As soon as possible, convert to the foreign religion. That should get you in the trading bloc, and put you in a pretty good position to catch up. The upside is that you won't have any "close borders" or YDWOOF negatives, so they should all like you. With some skilled diplomacy and gifting some techs, you just might be able to pull off a diplo victory.

If that fails: Conquest or domination is dicey. They're all going to be friendly, so declaring war on one may be tantamount to declaring war on all. Once the whole continent is yours, focus on science, use diplomacy and a defensive army to keep yourself safe, and build a spaceship. Or cultural, if your holy cities and wonder production line up that way (I'm not an authority on that; I have won many times, but never gotten a cultural victory. I enjoy warring too much.).

Also, crush Justinian. Regardless, you're going to need the whole continent to yourself.

Needless to say, get state property as quickly as possible.

EDIT: Actually, try to be the first to communism. You can use that great spy against the leader, then steal techs with a spy in a boat. Call it a variation of the great wall gambit. Some details here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=263392

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Also, I'd welcome a critique of my advice by more experienced players (my level is routine wins on prince, ready to move up a level).

 

[TBox]

So, make nice, trade techs.

What about open borders? I'm afraid if I do that I'll unbottle him and he'll expand north of me, then I'm on two fronts. How does the AI handle exclaves?

And I'm in 2002 cuz I haven't played in 5 years, nor been visiting the forums.

 

[Way_Traveler]

Tbox-- Don't trade techs or open borders with Justinian! Murder him with extreme prejudice. I meant to make nice with the other-continent civs. They're all going to be united under one religion, so an AP victory is possible-- in fact, it's even probable, it's just a question of whether you'll get it or somebody else.

Obviously, let them build the AP (so it has the 'right' state religion). Do everything you can to get their religion on your continent, then spread it yourself. [This is going to require running OR, since you won't be able to build monasteries. Again, good thing you're spiritual.

 

[TBox]

Tbox-- Don't trade techs or open borders with Justinian!

I posted seeing only the make nice ideas above. I'm inclined to your advice because it matches my instincts... crush, kill, destroy.

Also, State Property... Not needless to say. I've missed 5 years of debates here. What do I do with it? I'm planning a hybrid economy, which means lots of cottages, not workshops and watermills. It's a small continent, I'd be overstuffing it to get nine cities for a cultural, but I think it can be done. But things are going to be close to each other anyways, especially if I get forbidden palace, so no significant distance maintenance. Mercantilism seems better.

 

[bardolph]

No need to make nice with Justinian. If he has good real estate and/or resources, take him out. Once you do so, you can practically ignore military until you land on the other side with your Caravels.

Assuming you don't have the Pyramids, make 1 or 2 solid GP farms and cottage up the rest of your empire. DON'T pick up any new religions!

Save your GPs for lightbulbing. Beeline Optics then use it to trade yourself into the Liberalism race. If you hit Liberalism first, you can take Astronomy as your free tech, which would open up your trade routes and make you very competitive.

You can then switch to Free Religion and have a nice time trading with everyone. Then cruise easily to your Cultural Victory.

Building the Schwedegan Paya might be nice, since you could then adopt Free Religion early and have an easier time getting top value for Optics when you trade it away.

 

[Way_Traveler]

TBox-- I didn't realize how small the continent was. Yeah, then state property probably isn't needed...