Looking for a clear definition and explaination of civ 3 governments

[xguild]

My friend and I who are both Civ veterans picked up Civ 3 again recently (playing online) in anticipation and excitment for Civ 4. Anyway, one thing I always had a hard time understanding was the "real" difference and usefullness of the different governments.

I have the conquest expansion which I know added a couple of government types that actually added to my confusion.

Here are some basic questions I'm looking to have answered for all the experts out there.

1. What is the Military Police Limit? How does this work exactly and what are some of the benefits or draw backs of this variable?

2. Corruption and Waste. I realize that the less corruption the better, however, the scale from what I have read seems to be worded rather then a figuire which makes identifying the cause and effect of corruption difficult. How does curruption work (in lamens terms)?

3. It's obvious that Republic and Democracy are the "best" governments to have when it comes to commerce (money). From what I have gathered it's usually a race to get to Republic in most games as this government offers the cleanes and fastest production value. My question is however if Republic is the best government what is the benefit of ever changing to governments like Communism, Fascism and Feudalism which come way further down the tech tree line?

4. Free Units. I don't really get this. I know it has sometime to do with how many units you can control per city without a cost, but I don't understand for example why as a Monarchy you get 8 per metropolis but only 2 per town while Feudalsim is 5 per town and 1 per Metropolis? How does that make one better then the other? I'm very confused about this one.

5. What is the advantage of Feudalsim over Monarchy and Republic? Why would I want this form of government over either of the two that become available earlier on?

6. Unit cost? In the case of Republic and Feudalsim there is a Unit Cost, what is this and what is the benefit or draw back of this? It seems to me in the case of Feudalism, a unit cost of 3 is excessivly high considering what you get from Feudalism.

The general question I'm also looking to have answered is what is the difference between all the governments and what makes one better over the other. What are the pro's and Con's of each government?

Thanks for any help in advance

 

[vmxa]

"xguild"

"1. What is the Military Police Limit? How does this work exactly and what are some of the benefits or draw backs of this variable?"

This refers to the number of units in a town that will affect happiness. It is different for different governments and some it has no effect.

"2. Corruption and Waste. I realize that the less corruption the better, however, the scale from what I have read seems to be worded rather then a figuire which makes identifying the cause and effect of corruption difficult. How does curruption work (in lamens terms)?"

See Axelmans thread on corruption.

 

[vmxa]

3. It's obvious that Republic and Democracy are the "best" governments to have when it comes to commerce (money). From what I have gathered it's usually a race to get to Republic in most games as this government offers the cleanes and fastest production value. My question is however if Republic is the best government what is the benefit of ever changing to governments like Communism, Fascism and Feudalism which come way further down the tech tree line?

4. Free Units. I don't really get this. I know it has sometime to do with how many units you can control per city without a cost, but I don't understand for example why as a Monarchy you get 8 per metropolis but only 2 per town while Feudalsim is 5 per town and 1 per Metropolis? How does that make one better then the other? I'm very confused about this one.

3- to me there is no benefit to switch a second time for non-religious civs. I do not even switch if I am religious as I do not want even a 1 turn anarchy.

It may be possible to make a case here and there for going to communism, but it is not really needed. I can't see demo at all. I would not even reserch it.

4- Well I am not sure we can make total sense out of it as it is really just an a convience for gameplay.

I guess if you were a Monarch you could draft (demand the local lord provide) more troops as a village became larger. Support then is a function of ow many towns/cities or metros you have. There more the larger the pool of people to press into service and they are free as the local boss provides them.

Fuedalism gets less in the case of larger cities as it was deemed to that they would suffer the larger they were due to corruption and such.

The why for does not matter only that you are aware of what is allowed for each form of government.

 

[vmxa]

5. What is the advantage of Feudalsim over Monarchy and Republic? Why would I want this form of government over either of the two that become available earlier on?

6. Unit cost? In the case of Republic and Feudalsim there is a Unit Cost, what is this and what is the benefit or draw back of this? It seems to me in the case of Feudalism, a unit cost of 3 is excessivly high considering what you get from Feudalism.

The general question I'm also looking to have answered is what is the difference between all the governments and what makes one better over the other. What are the pro's and Con's of each government?

Thanks for any help in advance

5- I see no reason to use Fuedalism and never have. First it comes after Monarchy and Republic. Monarch is much better for WW to war with. Rep is much better to make gold with.

6- Here again we are trying understand why they settled on a particular game mechanic over another one. Not having been in the meeings, I can only guess.

Unit cost was added to attempt to prevent players from jut making units and nothing else to do a Hun style game. Eventually you will not be able to bear the cost of fielding an endlessly large army of troops.

Once you implement a brake, you have to allow for differnt amounts of braking. This was done by changing the free support via the form of government and the level.

So now all that is left is to decide how to allocate the throttle and the brake. It was determined that towns/cities and metros would be the way to do it.

So as you move up levels the free unit support is altered by the difficulty levle for the AI. At Sid they get 24 for free off the top, 8 addition per city.

This was needed because the cost factor was so low that they could crank out units every turn very soon.

Now players have to decide if Monarchy is better or some other form and the unit cost is one consideration. It may be that if you are going to play a specific style that it will preclude you from play most govs. Such as if you are going to never have peace.


So to me only Monarchy or Republic is a consideration. I never use the others. They come to late or are option or they suck (Fued/Fascism).

 

[xguild]

This is how I've sort of come to understand the different governments after I did some additional research, correct me if Im wrong here.

1. Anarchy - Obviously you always want to avoid it at all cost. It seems to be being a religious civ gives an enormous advantage in regards to anarchy as a result of their short transition period.

2. Despotism - The only real benefit to Despotism in the early game seems to be that you can run an endless war because of the absence of War Weariness. My understanding is that if you are in despotism in the late game you'll find yourself falling behind quickly regardless of your "style" of play. So early game only and you should try to switch governments as quickly as possible.

3. Feudalsim - Right now from what I have read there doesn't seem to be much benefit or reason to being Feudalist at all (although I still question this, why would they have it if there was no reason to play it). Corruption is relativly high in comparison to most governments equal to that of Monarchy. The Free units limits seem to be good on the "town" scale so it would seem if you are waging war in the mid game and have lots of small towns it would be benificial, except of course for the fact that you have a 3 per unit cost which seems really unbalanced to me. I would challenge anyone to come up with any reason at all that Feudalsim might be better then say Monarchy or Republic (in any circumstance).

4. Monarchy - Appears to be the best first choice and should be the target in the early games. No War Weariness, improved Free Units and improved corruption levels it seems like an easy decesion. There seems to be some benefit to remaining Monarchy even in the late game as the Free Units are at 8 for Metropolitis sized cities.

5. Communism - As it is right now, Communisms main benefit seem sto be it's evened out Free Units at six and no War Weariness with an added bonus of getting Veteran spies. I would say for waging war in the late game this is an easy choice.

6. Fascism - I would say that it's slightly better for waging war in the late game then communism with all pretty much all the benefits of communism. I was suprised to hear that everyone prefered Communism to Fascism since it's clearly statistically a better choice in every regard, with the only exception being the slightly reduced free units for towns, which would minimal effect late in the game. Why is communism preffered to fascism?

7. Republic - It would seem that most agree that it's the best choice as a whole. Additional Commerce and low war weariness seem to all be good reasons to maintain this government for the length of the game. However I question that logic since their are some serious statistical draw backs that no one has "explained away" to me yet. For starters the Free units stats are very low 1,3, 4 hardly enough to run a government with any measure of defense. It has a Unit cost of 2 which is only one less then Feudalism (which is considered by most accounts the worst government). Additionally corruption is equal to Fascism which offeres better benefits on every account except for the additional commerce. I think Republic is a good choice early on, but it seems it would be worth it to trade it in later in the game regardless of what style you play. I would say for War Mongers you go Communism or Fascism and for Builders you go Democracy.

8. Democracy - Statistically speaking when it comes to a "builder" game strategy this is the best government to have, far better then most people seem to give it credit for. Minimal corruption, +1 commerce bonus and 50% faster Workers seem to all be key to "fast building". Since you would choose this government after all major wars have been fought the Free unit and war weariness statistics should be for the most part irrelevant. I'm going to have to test this one in game.

Obviously the Anarchy period for non religious government seems to explain why most people choose not to switch "too often", prefering to make only 1 or at the most 2 switches in game. Correct me if I'm wrong however, isn't there a wonder or advancment that you can get that gets rid of the Anarchy period all together?

 

[vmxa]

Fascism is bad because, you lose pop when you switch to it. You must use force labor, so no cash rushing. This is not good in a newly captured town. Pop will be lost and you will have no means to rush anything, except to send in workers to add to the town. It is too late in the game to matter anyway. Oh it is an optional tech, so why bother?

 

[vmxa]

Despotism is more or less as you say, but I did paly one game all the way through at Sid. I just was under too much pressure to switch until it was not an issue.


I can't think of any wonder that will obviate anarchy when switching goverments. Even if there was I would probably not have it.

 

[oldStatesman]

6. Fascism - I would say that it's slightly better for waging war in the late game then communism with all pretty much all the benefits of communism. I was suprised to hear that everyone prefered Communism to Fascism since it's clearly statistically a better choice in every regard, with the only exception being the slightly reduced free units for towns, which would minimal effect late in the game. Why is communism preffered to fascism?

Corruption. Communism is much better when you have a lot of small corrupt cities spread out everywhere. Also, with Fascism you lose pop when you switch...and cannot expand a captured city until the pop is half native.

I think several of the governments were put in to help the AI more than the human player. Feudalism, Democracy and Fascism. (this is the freferred government for the aI in the late game - it is amusing to watch the Fascist cascade - by the end all aI's will be fascist - to their detriment - when that happpens you know you have won.)

I have found I prefer Monarchy - even as a semi peaceful player. The no war wearinesss is the part I like. The only two governments a human needs are Republic or Monarchy - an argument could be made for Communism if you are in a Republic and in a long war in the modern age or a Monarchy and corruption in a large spread out empire is killing you - the rest are simply add ons for use by the aI or for variety IMHO.

On Edit: I also prefer Monarchy because it seems to help keep the tech pace down since commerce is lower than Republic- your research is not as fast - and I like to make the ages last a bit longer.