Lore Questions / How Leaders are connected / Etc

[Micky Onimusha]

I enjoy the game a lot and I'm one of those who likes to read into the back-story a great deal. Although the game is clearly a strategy game first and foremost, I'm the kind who likes to know the answers. The info given by the Civilopedia leaves a lot of gaps, both for characters, how they came to power and so forth.

But my main question is how the leaders are connected. Since, unlike vanilla, I presume that all the characters in FFH2 are in the same 'era', they would all be connected in some way and presumably share their leaderships together in some cases.

With some civs, it seems relatively obvious.

Alexis and Flauros of the Calabim are siblings, and presumably work together.

From the best I can tell, the Ljosalfar leaders each do individual jobs (Arendel Phaedra - Queen, Thessa - in charge of magic, Amelanchier - Army general [I assume based on his traits]).

Perpentach is the King of the Balserpahs and Keelyn is his daughter (and presumably took his leadership position by force).

etc.

But in some cases, it's a lot less obvious. Both Sheaim leaders want the world to end but its never explained how they came to power or how they came to work together. The two Lanun leaders 'rule' the sea but there's no mention of how they balanced their leadership between each other (if they work together at all) and so forth.

Obviously, this lore stuff is far from a priority but I wouldn't mind finding it out, be it by Civilopedia entries or just official posts here, heh.

Just me be curious is all

 

[Grey Fox]

But in some cases, it's a lot less obvious. Both Sheaim leaders want the world to end but its never explained how they came to power or how they came to work together.

I think there is some info about how they came to work together somewhere. Don't remember where, if it was a post by Kael or if I read something in the civilopedia. In some fantasy Lore, like the Wheel of Time, magic is at it's strongest when a man and a woman combine their effort. Might be the same here.

Anyways, Tebryn got a deal with Agares (I think?), and he has to bring about Armageddon to get his deal of the bargain. Os-Gabella wants to comit suicide, but she is immortal, so the only way for her to really die is to end creation.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Anyways, Tebryn got a deal with Agares (I think?), and he has to bring about Armageddon to get his deal of the bargain. Os-Gabella wants to comit suicide, but she is immortal, so the only way for her to really die is to end creation.

Yeah, I read about that (and oddly, she's also the adopted mother of the Vampire siblings), but it's never explained how they came to work together, so it still leaves me curious

 

[evanb]

IIRC, Kael said the leaders aren't all 'from the same era'. They were all in his D&D campaign at some point, but not all of them at the same time, so some of them didn't originally work together.

However, in the mod I guess we could say they all pertain to the same era, but that still doesn't answer how they started working together

 

[Nikis-Knight]

evan's right, they're based on characters that didn't even originate in the same world, but for the mod they all do have an impact on Erebus' Age of Rebirth.
What I picture for the Sheaim, for example: Os-Gabella has been around a long time, p.o.'ed at life, the universe and everything. Shes gathered a samll secret society/cult around her by the Age of Rebrith that basically tries to screw up the world in the hope that the gods will get sick of her and just kill her already. Things like corrupting priests, bringing emires into war, etc. Then word reaches her of Tebryn, who has been tasked by Ceridwin with bringing about the end of the world, and told of the way to bring it about. They begin cooperating.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

IIRC, Kael said the leaders aren't all 'from the same era'. They were all in his D&D campaign at some point, but not all of them at the same time, so some of them didn't originally work together.

However, in the mod I guess we could say they all pertain to the same era, but that still doesn't answer how they started working together

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. That clears up some of the leader relationships a bit then.

evan's right, they're based on characters that didn't even originate in the same world, but for the mod they all do have an impact on Erebus' Age of Rebirth.
What I picture for the Sheaim, for example: Os-Gabella has been around a long time, p.o.'ed at life, the universe and everything. Shes gathered a samll secret society/cult around her by the Age of Rebrith that basically tries to screw up the world in the hope that the gods will get sick of her and just kill her already. Things like corrupting priests, bringing emires into war, etc. Then word reaches her of Tebryn, who has been tasked by Ceridwin with bringing about the end of the world, and told of the way to bring it about. They begin cooperating.

Seems logical. Still would like to hear some official words on it though

 

[TheBoatman]

Some of these connections should be in scenarios later.

 

[Kael]

As a design team writer Nikis-Knight is as official as it gets. We used the D&D campaign as an inspirtation for the world we created, but it is only an inspiration. Everything past that point is the work of the entire team (mostly Nikis-Knight, Wilboman, Corlindale and myself). They have created entire sections of FfH lore that have been canonized.

As Evan said most of the leaders were major NPC's in the D&D campaigns, often different campaigns that covered different times in the age of rebirth. So some weren't alive during the same time period as others.

And some leaders were just created new just for the mod because I thought there was a design need. Perpentach, Mahala, Einion and Thessa were all new just for the mod. In fact Keelyn was not only not in the D&D games, she was designed by Nikis-Knight back before he was even a team member. Making her the only leader that didn't come from the origional FfH design guide. (all the leaders and civs were origionally designed for FfH1, but they were put on hold for FfH2 when I realized I wouldnt be able to do what I wanted with them without the SDK).

The greatest portion of the leaders come from one D&D campaign. Tebryn was casting apocylptic spells that was effecting the world, one per year. the first caused anyone within 400 miles of his tower who died to be raised as an undead, the second permanently eclipsed the sun. After the second spell the evil races of the world began a war against humanity. Vampires traveled unhindered by sunlight, werewolves roamed in huge packs, mind flayers came up from their subterrainen lairs to enslave entire villages, etc.

Every race that lioved the night became more powerful, and mankind was being attacked on every front. It was no longer possible to travel across the land. And farming communities were lost.

The only safe place to grow food was on islands that didn't have any creatures on them. And the only safe way to travel was by ship. In a few years only a few walled port cities remained. And the worlds hero became a man who had been a thorn in its side up until that point, Falamar and his pirate fleets.

This campaign provided more leaders just because it dealt with more army leaders than most of my campaigns. What remained of the nations of the world met in one city, to discuss plans to build a united army to travel to the dead lands and assualt Tebryn's Black Tower. Charadon, Varn, Rhoanna, and Falamar were at that table, maybe some others. Jonus, Auric, Hyborem, Cassiel, Basium were also in that campaign. Hyborem, Cassiel and Basium were in almost all my campaigns, usually just as legendary figures. Auric's story arc was being concluded in that campaign but he was covered in more detail in an earlier campaign.

By the way, as you have noticed our writing style gives tiny detailed peaks into the lives of these cahracters to bring them to life. But we are often frustratingly vague about the way these characters relate to each other, offering just tantilizing hints at times. Thats all intentional. We want the world to be dynamic, we want you to make your own stories and have the background to support them.

Whenever I write an elaborate pedia entry my goal is (sometimes accomplished, sometimes not) that someone who reads it would think "wow, I wish I could play out that story as a D&D game or a Civ4 scenario". I want it to capture the spirit of whatever character I am describing, but I also want it to tease enough that you are left wanting more. Sometimes what you don't say is as important as what you do, and we are always trying to find that sweet spot between telling you about the world and letting the world live in your imagination.

 

[TheJopa]

And some leaders were just created new just for the mod because I thought there was a design need. Perpentach Mahala, Einion and Thessa were all new just for the mod. In fact Keelyn was not only not in the D&D games, she was designed by Nikis-Knight back before he was even a team member. Making her the only leader that didn't come from the origional FfH design guide. (all the leaders and civs were origionally designed for FfH1, but they were put on hold for FfH2 when I realized I wouldnt be able to do what I wanted with them without the SDK).

I think I read somewhere that Perpentach was in champaign and locked in Tower of Eyes, imprisoning his body but letting his mind go? So was he in campaign or just made for FfH?

BTW I love those entries and entire backstory (And I do notice that connection between character is only faint, damn )

 

[Micky Onimusha]

As a design team writer Nikis-Knight is as official as it gets. We used the D&D campaign as an inspirtation for the world we created, but it is only an inspiration. Everything past that point is the work of the entire team (mostly Nikis-Knight, Wilboman, Corlindale and myself). They have created entire sections of FfH lore that have been canonized.

Didn't realise he worked on it, heh. Shows how much I realise

By the way, as you have noticed our writing style gives tiny detailed peaks into the lives of these cahracters to bring them to life. But we are often frustratingly vague about the way these characters relate to each other, offering just tantilizing hints at times. Thats all intentional. We want the world to be dynamic, we want you to make your own stories and have the background to support them.

Whenever I write an elaborate pedia entry my goal is (sometimes accomplished, sometimes not) that someone who reads it would think "wow, I wish I could play out that story as a D&D game or a Civ4 scenario". I want it to capture the spirit of whatever character I am describing, but I also want it to tease enough that you are left wanting more. Sometimes what you don't say is as important as what you do, and we are always trying to find that sweet spot between telling you about the world and letting the world live in your imagination.

Ah, I see. Well, I won't pry any further if that's the intention. Knowing that they aren't all from same era solves a few questions anyway.

 

[Grey Fox]

Whenever I write an elaborate pedia entry my goal is (sometimes accomplished, sometimes not) that someone who reads it would think "wow, I wish I could play out that story as a D&D game or a Civ4 scenario".

Or "Wow, I want to make a comic strip about this!"

 

[Kael]

I think I read somewhere that Perpentach was in champaign and locked in Tower of Eyes, imprisoning his body but letting his mind go? So was he in campaign or just made for FfH?

That was just written for FfH.

 

[AndrewDJ]

The big question I've had, is who are the Nine Kings of the Ride of the Nine Kings wonder?

 

[KingOfLands]

Auric's story arc was being concluded in that campaign but he was covered in more detail in an earlier campaign.

I don't suppose asking you to elaborate would result in spoilers for AoI or some other dire outcome? I've wondered how things worked themselves out with his storyline since he popped up in my first game of FFH. Far and away the most entertaining diplomacy blurbs of any leader other than Perpentarch, IMO.

 

[Kael]

I don't suppose asking you to elaborate would result in spoilers for AoI or some other dire outcome? I've wondered how things worked themselves out with his storyline since he popped up in my first game of FFH. Far and away the most entertaining diplomacy blurbs of any leader other than Perpentarch, IMO.

He will be covered in detail in the "Ice" phase. There are three major story arcs covered in that phase (its so cool for a wanna-be writer like me to talk about story arcs instead of just features) and one of those is about Auric. So there will be more detail to come.

Until then, Auric's pedia entry does a pretty good job of setting up his character. Auric's story was played out over two campaigns and the pedia entry occurs between them. It hints a little to events from the earlier game: "Three days later, Auric Ulvin came out of the chamber, he was no longer the disheveled boy of Auspire, the teenage prisoner of the Shadowed Vale, the son of a widowed farmer's wife."

When the party remet Auric years later in game time and rl time he was leading the Illians. This is the Auric we find in FfH. Confident, no longer the haunted boy, believing in his visions. The party was friends with Auric for a while (Auric and Varn were actually pretty good friends outside of the whole, "I worship the god of light and you believe you are the ressurected embodiment of the unholy god of winter" thing).

 

[Silverkiss]

100% off-topic, but I just love when Kael decides to make those lore-related posts.

 

[Shadius]

Likewise. He should keep an FFH blog, or something.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah it's cool that it was Varn Gosam that saved Auric from the Vale.

 

[BCalchet]

When official information is scarce on certain subjects, I tend to write up small pieces of text describing conditions of various places and people in my games. It has no true purpose - I mostly find it entertaining to speculate on what actually goes on in those tiny city-squares, and writing them down is a natural step from there.

I've found it helps bring the worlds alive for me as I pile up descriptives for the various civilizations, and it lets me "know" more about them - and if/when more official information appears, it's simple to replace parts to accommodate that. Sort of like cheating to get a more fluffed-out world, I guess.

The purpose of this post is henceforth the response to the following post, so there!

The pieces of information I make up as I go along are all along the lines of the following, more or less background-information describing conditions. As I mentioned, a little bit about the goings-on, current relations between the different available leaders during the course of a regular FFH2 game, and so on.

On the Sheaim, from my last game, spoilered to keep the post from growing too long:

Spoiler :

Os-Gabella:
Ruler of the Sheaim, she lives in the palace surrounded by an elite guard of female warriors and various subordinates.
No men are allowed on the palace grounds, and those foreign leaders foolish enough to send male ambassadors hoping to speak to the ruler soon get them back in a number of small boxes.

Os-Gabella rules single-handedly, supported by her personal guard (which is really more of an army), the Fang and a hidden group of spies, assassins and law-enforcers, the Talon - the latter is a direct descendant of the hidden cult that allowed her to bring the Sheaim nation into existance.

It is not rare for newborn children to disappear in the capital and surrounding lands, but this is most often celebrated rather than resisted: A girl child who disappears is likely to find a place in either of the aforementioned organizations, and will have a good life serving Os-Gabella.
Boy children, on the other hand, are less fortunate: Rumour has it they are stolen away to fuel bizarre rituals beneath the palace, sacrificed to demons, dragons or other vile forces.


Tebryn:
An ally, of sorts, who has taken up residence in an ancient abandoned tower near the Sheaim capital.
There, he performs magical experiments and casts strange spells remembered from his life or gained in hell, sharing some of the useful spells and rituals he comes up with to strengthen the armies - the Planar Gate device and the Elegy of the Sheaim ritual chief among these.
Rumour has it these are merely the tip of the iceberg, that in the vaults of his dark tower even more frightening devices and spells wait to be unleashed upon an unsuspecting Erebus - but what spy would dare enter to find out?

Tebryn does not really interfere with the government and is rarely seen in public, but has a massive influence over what goes on beneath the surface.

It is rumored that every single adept within the Sheaim forces has sworn his or her undying loyalty to Tebryn - those who refuse die in magic-related "accidents". Many within the government are worried about his increasing influence among the magery, but Os-Gabella dismisses these worries - to her,
he is an useful tool and no more.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I've found it helps bring the worlds alive for me as I pile up descriptives for the various civilizations, and it lets me "know" more about them - and if/when more official information appears, it's simple to replace parts to accommodate that. Sort of like cheating to get a more fluffed-out world, I guess.

I'm sure I had a purpose with this post as I started typing, but now, I've gone and forgotten it... I'll make an edit if I remember what I wanted to say in the first place.

some information is withheld because plan to use it for scenarios or are still working on the best way to present it, but in many cases if something isn't revealed, it simply isn't decided upon. Feel free to post your musings, and if they fit with what is already established, we may very well borrow it, all or in part.