losing resources

[Michelangelo]

I only got the game this Chrismas but I'm allready hooked. I've got a couple of questions I couldn't find the anwers to on this site.

When you have build a specific city improvement or unit that requires a specific resource and for some reason the resource isn't available anymore, will those improvements / units disappear or not??

I had 4 resources of iron. However when making a trade proposal these 3 extra iron's (as I understand it only takes 1 iron for your entire empire, if it all conected through roads it is) didn't show so I couldn't trade them. When do or don't they show. Don't the show when the other civ has them allready??

That's it.

 

[Ackrite99]

I think you'll find that the resources only appear as available for trade if the other civ doesn't have them. Thus, the 3 surplus would be useless in negotiations with a civ that has its own supply. However, a civ unlucky enough to have no iron would need the resources, and it would appear as an option.

This is a useful trick for knowing who's building what. For example, if in negotiations, you have surplus uranium that appears, you will know that this civ cannot build nuclear weapons. Useful information, no...

 

[Brutal]

Just a tip here about trading iron or any other strategic resource. If you have two sources of iron and trade the extra to someone else. Many times the deal will not end after twenty turns so if one of your sources dries up you no longer have iron for yourself. The only way I have found to get it back is to

A- Declare war - usually not something I want to do at this point

B- Find yet another source - again pretty hard to do mid to late game because the map is all settled

C- Sever the roads between your civ and the others if on same land mass.

or Sell all your harbors if no one else on your land mass has harbors. If trade is across land masses.

So I only trade Iron, Salt pepper, oil, etc unless I have at least two sources perferably three for my self.

 

[Moulton]

No, to answer the first question: Units and improvements do not disappear when you lose the resource. Interesting to know if you have to buy iron, or horses, for example. Get iron for 20 years, build you intercontinental railroad all at once, and then build more if you can still get iron. Or coal. If not, you still have the spine rail.
You can cancel or renegotiate a deal after 20 years. If you sell iron, they will often pay a LOt more to continue it

 

[NY Hoya]

Brutal, you know you can end any deal after the initial 20 turn period is up, and peacefully. Just enter into negotiations with the civ, click on active at the bottom and end the deal. The tactics you mention are only applicable during the initial 20 turns...

 

[Arrian]

There is one other reason why a given surplus resource may not appear as an option in the diplomacy screen: you can only trade it to an AI civ that knows the proper tech to use it. For instance, you cannot trade oil to someone who hasn't researched refining yet.

-Arrian

 

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Arrian
There is one other reason why a given surplus resource may not appear as an option in the diplomacy screen: you can only trade it to an AI civ that knows the proper tech to use it. For instance, you cannot trade oil to someone who hasn't researched refining yet.

-Arrian

I hate it when the AI has some resources to trade but they can not trade it to me because they don't know that they have it.
For me the one resource that I am usually lacking is saltpetter.
I ALWAYS GET SKREWED ON THAT SALT!

one think I've always wondered is if there is a resource in some spot say rubber in the jungle and I change that spot will the resource go away?
personally I never did it because a rubber is one thing you never want to be with out

 

[Moulton]

No, you can imprve the square safelt--clear junglr, for example

One thing some of us have done, is trade them the tech, and on the next turn, before they know what they have, trade for the resource. A little risky... but...
Especially risky with gunpowder.
I survived once the musketeer stage with out it, but I was english, and couldnt build Men-of-War When I had Riflemen, I went ahead and traded the tech, and traded for the SaltPeter. they did not like me any more, when they discovered they could not make Musketeers

 

[Arrian]

The best thing to do if you have the tech to see a resource, but lack that resource, is to go take it. If you trade away the tech, then the AI knows what it has. They may not trade you the resource... and will probably charge you an arm and a leg if they do. Instead, build an army and kill. In the case of Saltpeter, this can be particularly good, because you can charge off with a bunch of knights, take the Salt, and upgrade those Knights to Cavalry. At that point, your enemy is toast. This, of course, assumes a tech lead the likes of which I haven't had for a while (I've been playing Monarch).

-Arrian

 

[macaskil]

you can use civ3edit to change resources so they never run out.

Hopefully a later version of the game will add some realism so that resources will not run out if you conserve them, eg the chance of running out of coal is related to the number of coal plants etc; also that things such as railroads and factories can run on coal OR oil OR electricity (requiring coal OR solar OR hydro OR nuclear power stations). Also if you trade resources this should also deplete them. You should then be able to choose "George W Bush" or "Kyoto" strategies; the Bush approach should boost production but increase pollution and deplete resources so that you end up having to buy oil from your enemies.

To add further realism there should be a good chance of finding new sources but this should decline to zero as the game enters the 21st century.

 

[dozenlong]

And the kyoto strategy will put a terrible hurt on production and delay said pollution for...6 years.

(I see the point you make, but I just wanted to give some ribbing about everyone being all over Kyoto without looking at the details)

 

[Kefka]

One thing I have found out is that it pays not to destroy jungle and forest because the AI always destroys their jungle and forest and guess what when rubber dissapers where do you think it reappears?
thats right in my ONLY jungle or forest that I control!

 

[Moulton]

I usually clear jungle around the cities... cuts down disease, and reveals productive tiles. When Rubber appeared this time, it was in a remote jungle, in a a mountain pass (English) in a plains square that had always been plains, in a grass square next to a city, and in a jungle tile next to a city.
Coal appeared in two jungle squares in Russia and one city square in Russia, on two hills in my continent. One of the Russian squares was magically cleared one turn later.

 

[Sodak]

Something that nobody has mentioned - Just having a resource within your borders is not enough to trade it, you need to build a road over it, connecting it to your trade network. Then it will be available for trading.

Last night, I discovered gunpowder, yippee! A saltpeter appeared within a city radius - but was exhausted the turn after I completed the road! Talk about bad luck.

"Look, sire, a shovelful of saltpeter! Shall we build a road to it?"

 

[zebomba]

Originally posted by Kefka
One thing I have found out is that it pays not to destroy jungle and forest because the AI always destroys their jungle and forest and guess what when rubber dissapers where do you think it reappears?
thats right in my ONLY jungle or forest that I control!

Rubber and horses, naturally, never disappear.

And yes, the AI has instant invisible workers. Pick an expansionist civ, start a deity game and watch the enemy cities get improved magically.

 

[Michelangelo]

Originally posted by Kefka
One thing I have found out is that it pays not to destroy jungle and forest because the AI always destroys their jungle and forest and guess what when rubber dissapers where do you think it reappears?
thats right in my ONLY jungle or forest that I control!

Is it a rule that the number of a perticular resource in a game doesn't change. So if one disappears somewhere, in instantly reappears somewhere else.
Has anyone tested this yet and is sure it works this way.

This and the info about effects of losing resources, if any, should make an great improvement in the info center. A couple of questions I have:

- When you have two resources, one for yourself and one trading to someone else and one resource disappears, who will lose the resource. Your own or the one available for trade?

- When a trading resource dissapears is this considered an internation incident, so your rating by the others decreases and could cause a war

- When you are building a unit / improvement that requires a resource and the resource dissapears while building it, can you still finish it or must you switch to another unit / improvement

- How does changing a tile effect the resource it produces. Changing a tile that previously had no resource and a tile that allready had one

- You trade a resource to, f.i., the Greek. You declare war on the Russians which holds the only route to the Greek. Will this make the Greek angry with you or not.

 

[zebomba]

1. your own.
2. not that I know. It disappears and that's it.
3. you can finish the project.
4. you can chop trees as you wish, if the resource is there, it stays there. But reappearing resources like uranium and coal won't show up unless you have non-resources forests and jungles.
5. I don't think they'll get mad, but I've never seen a civ lose a trading route in late game, except for blockades or ICBM rain.

 

[Michelangelo]

Thanx Zebomba, I'll try these in my gaming.