Lost interest in only 4 weeks
- Thread starter terveurn
- Start date
I don't see it that way. Sure, arty is better vs. cities, but does plenty of damage to ground forces. 3x arty + 1 strong land unit on defensible terrain is more than enough to hold pretty much any 1 or 2 hex choke point.
It doesn't matter how you see it. In Civilization 5, which is the game you are playing, artillery is pointless in countering military units, and only useful for cities. You may as well complain that the sky is blue, when you'd prefer a pinkish shade of mauve.
It doesn't matter how you see it. In Civilization 5, which is the game you are playing, artillery is pointless in countering military units, and only useful for cities. You may as well complain that the sky is blue, when you'd prefer a pinkish shade of mauve.
Mass them at least 4 pieces, back them up with Gatling guns and other melee units. Bring in some fast movers to pick off wounded stragglers. And build roads for your guns if possible.
Definitely not pointless at all.
We're also not discussing promotions. A double cover infantry "should" be able to walk into 4 or 5 non-promoted (or disadvantageously promoted) artillery while his friends walk in behind him. Watch your promotion bar to bank a heal and kill one.
Socratatus
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,636
The problem with `balance` is that reality isn`t `balanced`. Some military weapons are simply better than others. For instance the ME262 in WW2 was faster and hit harder than any prop WW2 aircraft - nothing could match it. The ME262 was in game terms, `unbalanced`.
The only way to `balance` (if you must use the term `balance`) realistically it is not to nerf units, but to bring other units or use a combination of units and strategy to win. So the ME262 in real life was defeated because p51s simply waited until they headed back home (since they ran out of fuel real fast) and shot them down while landing. Also, there were way more Allied planes than Axis which also made up for it. There are always a way around it if you think without nerfing units simply for `balance`..
The only way to `balance` (if you must use the term `balance`) realistically it is not to nerf units, but to bring other units or use a combination of units and strategy to win. So the ME262 in real life was defeated because p51s simply waited until they headed back home (since they ran out of fuel real fast) and shot them down while landing. Also, there were way more Allied planes than Axis which also made up for it. There are always a way around it if you think without nerfing units simply for `balance`..
Actually I was not down by -36 when I set-up my killing corridor - happiness was up by +11 (with a whole bunch of tech my spy's stole)
Just said I was down by -36 to indicate how my tech got behind.
Still does not explain how my large mass of artillery all firing at one unit did no damage at all......
Again, been playing civ since it began long, long, long time ago on an Apple II (when it was just Civilization and no numbers) so I know how to beat the crap out of an AI.
Just said I was down by -36 to indicate how my tech got behind.
Still does not explain how my large mass of artillery all firing at one unit did no damage at all......
Again, been playing civ since it began long, long, long time ago on an Apple II (when it was just Civilization and no numbers) so I know how to beat the crap out of an AI.
Gamewizard
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
- Messages
- 1,234
When you said you were hitting an enemy infantry, do you mean great war infantry, infantry, marine, paratrooper, or mechanized infantry? Was it fortified? Rough or flat terrain? What promotions do your artillery have? What about the enemy? Did you have a Great General nearby? Did the enemy have one? A screenshot of the battle prediction would help greatly to determine what is happening.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 6,181
Sometimes if you can't kill a unit in one turn (it happens) its better to guesstimate a small amount of damage you have to do this turn so you can kill them the next turn. If you do a limited amount of a damage that way the AI won't be able to heal and you can focus for the long term better. Sometimes also its beneficial to retreat from ground and use chokepoints/cities to break offensives while you hit and run defensively (easier to do with roads)
====
If you weren't at -36 unhappy then with the amount of units you had you could have done some careful tactical estimates and probably go through that war mostly unscathed.
Load up a save so we can see what you were dealing with perhaps? [Check for an autosave]
====
If you weren't at -36 unhappy then with the amount of units you had you could have done some careful tactical estimates and probably go through that war mostly unscathed.
Load up a save so we can see what you were dealing with perhaps? [Check for an autosave]
Smokeybear
Emperor
It was never a broken game. Even before it got its early patches, it was still damn fun to play. But Firaxis has done a great job of polishing and adding and yes, balancing, over the past two years. Still some things I'd like to see different, but then everyone has their take on that sort of thing.
Smokeybear
Emperor
It doesn't matter how you see it. In Civilization 5, which is the game you are playing, artillery is pointless in countering military units, and only useful for cities. You may as well complain that the sky is blue, when you'd prefer a pinkish shade of mauve.
No, they are not useless against ground forces, as long as you're not trying to use them against units much higher in tech, of course. Against similar era ground units, as a secondary damage-dealing unit behind some effective melee units, I've taken out many an enemy unit with artillery. You just can't expect them to be able to do it all by themselves.
What I frequently do, is lock my frontal melee units in good positions, fortify them in place, and let the enemy offense or defense attack them- the AI hurts itself pretty good trying to bust through, and my multiple artillery units take them out while they're weakened. And my melee guys don't even have to counterattack much, just stay locked in place and heal up between rounds. Before long, the AI is in bad shape, and then I counterattack with all forces and finish them. Artillery plays an important part in my field operations, even before any cities are involved. Just have to use them wisely within their limitations.
ense7en
n7
Alright, loaded up and took quick a look.
The beauty of a game like Civ5 is how there is always room to improve.
In your game, there are a huge number of things that need work, but most importantly, science!
You are sitting below 200 bpt, and it's t435-451 in your saves.
At a higher difficulty, the game would have been over long ago. In your game it's over anyway as you are a few eras behind France, who's going to win via Spaceship launch soon.
You want to get Libraries up and, Universities up in EVERY city!
You need to build the National College in your main science-producing city (usually capital) ASAP, and it's still not built on t451.
(You need Libraries in all cities to be able to build it.)
You have an extremely wide empire with a ton of very small cities, including your capital.
Many of the cities are not worth having and really contributing little to nothing to your empire, with the roads connecting to them costing you GPT (partially why you are running out of gold).
Frankly, many of them should have been razed to the ground, or puppeted only, with trading posts built around the puppets to help your GPT.
Many tiles have not been improved; you need more workers or to be assigning them to work more important tiles manually.
Trade your luxuries to the AI for gold, or GPT, or for their extra luxuries, to help with your happiness.
You have made only a few trades all game. Especially in empires with a lot of cities, trading luxuries is a huge source of gold and happiness.
As for why you are having trouble with war, it's due to the huge tech disparity.
You are attacking Ethiopia with Artillery and Riflemen (swimming thru the lake no less-never do this when ranged units can hit your guys there) when they have Infantry.
In short, you are way too far behind in science.
Again, on a more normal difficulty, the AI would have likely wiped you out long ago due to how far behind your military is in tech.
I'd also recommend scouting and meeting the other AIs faster; get those ships out to the other continent to see what's going on. Sooner you can meet those other continent civs the faster you can trade them your extra luxs, etc.
Do you have the starting save?
I imagine some people might have time to run thru the beginning and show how a more optimal pathing would look like.
Agreed the cities are too small - never was able to get them to grow when you have to force production (sacrificing food / gold / science) for the defensive.
At -38 I was also fighting internal rebels popping up all over the place (in short a real mess).
Was not fighting Ethiopia - was on the defensive (was at this point trying for a stalemate / peace treaty so I could regrow the cities and science as well as reorganize).
Swimming thru the lake was not my idea - Civ V likes to take the shortest path and you do not catch it you get in trouble. Swimming units are sitting ducks.
At -38 I was also fighting internal rebels popping up all over the place (in short a real mess).
Was not fighting Ethiopia - was on the defensive (was at this point trying for a stalemate / peace treaty so I could regrow the cities and science as well as reorganize).
Swimming thru the lake was not my idea - Civ V likes to take the shortest path and you do not catch it you get in trouble. Swimming units are sitting ducks.
Gamewizard
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2011
- Messages
- 1,234
The point is you played poorly (no offense). You created this thread claiming "the attacking and defense points are all screwed-up" and "Give me a break - this program sucks that you can not even fight back" and also "if the computer cheats this openly, no longer will I play this game." We helped you recognize that this game was lost long before your artillery defense failed. Try a new game and play better this time. Learn from your mistakes and you will not have this problem again.
Edit - "Swimming thru the lake was not my idea - Civ V likes to take the shortest path and you do not catch it you get in trouble. Swimming units are sitting ducks." When in war I move my land units as far as one turn will allow per turn, that way I don't fall prey to poor AI pathfinding.
Edit - "Swimming thru the lake was not my idea - Civ V likes to take the shortest path and you do not catch it you get in trouble. Swimming units are sitting ducks." When in war I move my land units as far as one turn will allow per turn, that way I don't fall prey to poor AI pathfinding.
Smokeybear
Emperor
No doubt. You can get away with a lot of long distance automoves in peacetime, but relying on them in wartime can really mess you up and cost you units.
Still does not answer the question why 10 artillery does not kill (or even dent) one infantry....
Now if the artillery did what artillery should have done - wipe out exposed troops then I would have been fine. Was trying to use the artillery to block a border so that I could get my civilization back on track - but the game mechanics were screw'd
Not so much playing poorly just playing a extremely defensive game.
Now if the artillery did what artillery should have done - wipe out exposed troops then I would have been fine. Was trying to use the artillery to block a border so that I could get my civilization back on track - but the game mechanics were screw'd
Not so much playing poorly just playing a extremely defensive game.
Smokeybear
Emperor
Artillery does not do a very good job of damaging Infantry, exposed or not. They are several techs higher than artillery, so you are too far behind the technology curve there. I'm sure they probably also had one or more other bonuses to their defense that you were unaware of, going for them. As has been extensively detailed already in this thread, massed artillery just is not the right tool in that situation, against those higher-tech units. Maybe in real life history, but not in the CiV gameworld. Every video game takes some liberties with reality, to one degree or another.
Don't want to offend you by saying you played poorly, I know that would have made me feel like @#$% back when I was new to the game and played rather ignorantly for quite some time...
Luckily, ignorance of game mechanics is a curable condition, and interacting with and listening to the fine fanatics here is the very best place to start.ense7en's post above is pure gold... absorb it.
