LOTR: Scaredy-elves???

Hauss

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I have always wondered about why the elves left Middle Earth. It seemed to me that they were just running away from the conflict. They mention, in the movies, something about the coming age of humans, but if I lived in Rivendell, I wouldn't be going anywhere regardless of whose age it was.

I have not read any of the books and was wondering if they contain any more explanation on this subject...
 
The high-elves of Middle-Earth only went back there to fight a long & bloody war anyway. Which they basically lost. They pretty much left Eden behind to do it as well. That trip over the ocean sure must be temptiing...
 
Never trust an elf.
 
So the the question was which war meant more to them?
 
before you read the trilogy, please be sure to read The Silmarilion. It deals with the great wars between Elves and Orcs, Melkor (aka Morgoth, Sauron's master), and numerous other stories.
 
Because LotR is a parable about WW2 and people bugging out over the sea to the west and leaving the lands of men to fight alone is kind of the point of the story. Trying to persuade the elves to fight with "it is through the blood of my people that your lands are made safe" bitterness was a widespread sentiment. Then in the darkest houre they decide to do the honerable thing and stand by their buddies.
 
before you read the trilogy, please be sure to read The Silmarilion. It deals with the great wars between Elves and Orcs, Melkor (aka Morgoth, Sauron's master), and numerous other stories.

Silmarillian can be quite hard to get into though, I think I would recommend reading it after going through Lord of the Rings :)

I say it because the first time I read LotR, I read it as a proper story (especially coming straight from The Hobbit.) When I read it after that I began to get an interest in the history and lore of the books, and from that got into the appendices and ultimately the rest of Tolkiens books and notes from there.
 
Because LotR is a parable about WW2 and people bugging out over the sea to the west and leaving the lands of men to fight alone is kind of the point of the story. Trying to persuade the elves to fight with "it is through the blood of my people that your lands are made safe" bitterness was a widespread sentiment. Then in the darkest houre they decide to do the honerable thing and stand by their buddies.

Tolkien made it quite clear that the LotR was not intended to be taken as a parable or allegory of anything.

This thread is in desperate need of Eran of Arcadia. ;)
 
Tolkien made it quite clear that the LotR was not intended to be taken as a parable or allegory of anything.

This thread is in desperate need of Eran of Arcadia. ;)

I know his assertions, but -

1 - I dont believe him.

2 - He was a product of his time. His preocupations with the dynamics of WW2 are obvious.

3 - Mah, Death of the Author and all that. Roland Barthes and all that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author
 
Because LotR is a parable about WW2 and people bugging out over the sea to the west and leaving the lands of men to fight alone is kind of the point of the story. Trying to persuade the elves to fight with "it is through the blood of my people that your lands are made safe" bitterness was a widespread sentiment. Then in the darkest houre they decide to do the honerable thing and stand by their buddies.

In the movie they did, NOT in the book.
 
In the movie they did, NOT in the book.

In defense of the elves, they were hard pressed themselves. Rivendell really had no large forces to speak of, and Lothlorien was beseiged by evil forces coming out of Mirkwood and the mountains. Celeborn broke the seige and defeated the oinkers, but they weren't exactly lollygagging around with nothing to do.

Ditto the humans and dwarves up near Dale and the Lonely Mountain. Hard pressed themselves.
 
I have always wondered about why the elves left Middle Earth. It seemed to me that they were just running away from the conflict. They mention, in the movies, something about the coming age of humans, but if I lived in Rivendell, I wouldn't be going anywhere regardless of whose age it was.

I have not read any of the books and was wondering if they contain any more explanation on this subject...

Elves are bound by the wheel of fate, so their long lifes are basically an expression of something like predeterminism, like the Istari:Maiar(wizards:Gandalf:Sauron:Saruman:Radaghast and the green and blue wizards who were lords over the sea and the East) Gandalf is the Guardian of Arnor, and since all that remains of Arnor is the Shire after the Witchking of Angmar(Bad dude who stabs Frodo,never been killed by a mortal blade, knows alot of magic himself etc, military genius) Destroyed the old kingdoms of Arnor leaving only the rangers(one of the nine Nazgul and their leader) The line of Isildur, who Aragorn is a direct descendant of.

The elves are there on Middle Earth to perform certain tasks, and to guide mortals, of course the Elves kind of have the ability to change their fate but are still ever tied to it, but when the Elves have achieved what they were sent to do they feel the call of the Undying Lands(where the Valar live(kind of like angels to Eru: god, melkior one of the Valar is Saurons master) Who sent them their in the first place after the wars of the first age) So especially the High Elves who saw the light of the Valar are drawn back by the fate of the Valar. Less so the Grey Elves and less so the Sylvan elves who never saw the undying lands(Legolas).

Half elves have a choice they can either become mortal, not tied to fate or like Elrond bound to fate, and of course his daughter he pleads with has chosen a mortal life, she choses to have the free will of the mortals unbound, I chose a mortal life, as it says in the film. Elrond can't understand it he has chosen immortality and to be tied by fate, but his daughter Arwen has slipped free of the bonds of fate, he pleads, he feels the pull of the west because his fate is decided and now the Elves have done their duty they are tied to their roots.

In the end the Elves receed into the west even the Sylvan elves recieve the call, it seems heartless, but then look at the Elves joining the force at Helms deep, they still feel that they have a duty, what is so heartbreaking is that all these Elves at Helms deep could receed into the west but they honour there duty, they die for something that was set down thousands of years ago.

In the end the Elves are not part of the Earth any more, and so they must go West, and all that is left is the Elven blood in those such as the Dunedain(Aragorn) Why is Aragorn so wise and so good, because he's nearly a hundred, and is blessed with Elven blood, same with the Black Numenorians, but it would take too long to explain the whole of the second age.

You can find alot of this out from the Unfinished Tales, and from Tolkeins myriad of texts that never appeared in the book, suffice to say it's a real mythology he wanted to give to the world: it's a mythology that is so complete and has so many complete languages and histories, that only by looking outside of the books will you find it.

Sorry badly explained remembering of the top of my head.
 
I would also recommend reading the Silmarillion after LOTR. :)

Since the First Age the Elves in Middle-Earth all had an open invitation to go and live in Valinor, a paradise even greater than Rivendell or Lothlorien, with the gods of Tolkien's world (this only applied to Elves, not Men or Dwarves.) Alot of them did go, but some decided to stay in Middle-Earth, these are the Elves you see in the LOTR books/movies...At the time that LOTR takes place the last groups have decided to leave for Valinor.

They fought their own battles in their own lands during the LOTR, so it's not as if they didn't do their bit to fight Sauron. But ultimatley yes, I suppose you can say that they are running away from the conflicts in Middle-Earth...but after thousands of years of wars and dark lords, can you blame them for wanting to leave for paradise?

This is a simplifyed version, you can find out more at this site:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp

Which I have always found very useful. :D
 
I have always wondered about why the elves left Middle Earth. It seemed to me that they were just running away from the conflict. They mention, in the movies, something about the coming age of humans, but if I lived in Rivendell, I wouldn't be going anywhere regardless of whose age it was.

I have not read any of the books and was wondering if they contain any more explanation on this subject...
I read part of the silmarillion, it was bloody long and I got bored with it about half way through. But I think the problem with LOTR is that we see the elves only at the very end of their existance on middle earth. Before the awakening of men, the elves were around, and they fought several long and bloody wars with Morgoth(Sauron's mentor). Like I said, I didn't finish the silmarillion, and it was a while ago I read it. But by the time we see the elves in LOTR, they have been worn down to a nub by Morgoth, and later Souron. They are a broken race, many of their ancient cities have long since been reduced to ruins. They are also suffering a demographic decline, they don't have a high birth rate, and a lot of them are leaving middle earth to go live with the gods.
 
The Elves of Middle-earth live forever, and even in dying, their souls are collected at the Halls of Mandos and allowed the ability to be reborn. For this reason, the Elves develop something best described as "weariness of existence". Although they do not change, the world around them does, and all of what they value and cherish is doomed to disappear over the span of their lifetimes. The Elves, then, have only one real choice to combat world-weariness, to travel to Valinor, the only place in the entire world where things do not change (as the Valar, the demigods of Middle-earth reside there and hold everything constant). For the Elves, there is nothing recognizably their own remaining in Middle-earth. The Three Rings had had some power to preserve what the Elves had cherished, and Elrond and Galadriel used their rings to help Rivendell and Lothlorien maintain some semblance of their past selves. However, with the One Ring destroyed, the Three Rings lost their powers of preservation and that final ability of the Elves to cling to what they had wrought disappeared.

I have always found the fate of the Elves particularly depressing, to linger on after everything they cherished has destroyed. The most powerful scene in the movies, in my opinion, was Elrond's speech to Arwen with the scene of Arwen at Aragorn's funeral and then standing, still youthful, at the foot of his tomb many years later. It really drove home the point that there is nothing left in Middle-earth for the Elves.
 
the elves left cuz the magic in middle earth was going away and they would become mortals if they stayed (so ive heard from the movies which is normally not a very good source of info for me)
 
One of my favourite scenes in the trilogy is Frodo's and Sam's encounter with westward-journeying elves in the Shire. Heartachingly beautiful, and highly influential on me as a child.
 
They should of had Glorfindel at the Forge of Elrond like in the book, not Arwyn. He was in the Silmarillion, one old hard dude.
 
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